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Gay Cake Controversy!

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    #3482
    victor8600
    Registered Users Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Harvey Slimy Doorknob wrote: »
    Scary stuff. I don't see any grey area here - they don't wax balls, simple as. I'll give up home if the court rules against the spa.

    Which charity are you planning to support with the sale of your home?


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    #3483
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Harvey Slimy Doorknob wrote: »
    Scary stuff. I don't see any grey area here - they don't wax balls, simple as. I'll give up home if the court rules against the spa.

    Depends how old he is ?






    SORRY!!


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    #3484
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    victor8600 wrote: »
    Which charity are you planning to support with the sale of your home?

    The Campaign for the Reintroduction of Common ****ing Sense


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    #3485
    donkeykong5
    Registered Users Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭donkeykong5


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    victor8600 wrote: »
    Which charity are you planning to support with the sale of your home?

    The Campaign for the Reintroduction of Common ****ing Sense
    Pcbrigade have taken over the bloody world.


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    #3486
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,309 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Pcbrigade have taken over the bloody world.

    Well at least it's better than Hitler's Germany. Better at taking over the whole world too.


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    #3487
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    donkeykong5 wrote: »
    Pcbrigade have taken over the bloody world.

    You can blame Apple for that. If they'd priced Macs more competitively, PCs wouldn't have become as ubiquitous as they did.


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    #3488
    Lil Sally Anne Jnr.
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Lil Sally Anne Jnr.


    Conversation is borderline ludicrous. You should never be compelled by law to print political slogans or phrases that go against your conscience. It's called thinking for yourself.


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    #3489
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »
    Conversation is borderline ludicrous. You should never be compelled by law to print political slogans or phrases that go against your conscience. It's called thinking for yourself.

    The Attorney General of Northern Ireland, the highest legal officer there, has come on board with the appeal against the court decision. So there is some expectation that sense will prevail, and the final outcome will be in line with your thinking.


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    #3490
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Lil Sally Anne Jnr. wrote: »
    Conversation is borderline ludicrous. You should never be compelled by law to print political slogans or phrases that go against your conscience. It's called thinking for yourself.

    Similarly, you can't use conscience to justify illegal discrimination. If you operate a business, then it's fair for the public to assume that you will treat everyone equally. That didn't happen in this case.


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    #3491
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The Attorney General of Northern Ireland, the highest legal officer there, has come on board with the appeal against the court decision. So there is some expectation that sense will prevail, and the final outcome will be in line with your thinking.

    Haha you're incorrigible! Is that the self same attorney general Mr Larkin - who doesn't get to decide the appeal - rather the case is the remit of the judges of the Supreme Court judges hearing the case .

    What will it take to see sense lol?


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    #3492
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,743 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Sense has prevailed.


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    #3493
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    Because by implication he is discriminating against the person gay lifestyle.

    If you say well I don't belive I should make a cake for a gay marriage because I am supporting something that is against my religion believes.

    I could also say I don't want to employ a women as it is against my religious believes that she should work outside home and I don't want to support that.....


    Believe what you want at home but don't take it to the highsteet.

    By demanding a cake motto he knew would deeply offend the baker? Pot, kettle black? and the customer is the initiator. Persecution...


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    #3494
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Sensible.

    https://twitter.com/Deborah_utv/status/1049948278836654080


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    #3495
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,571 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Well done Supreme Court. Common sense prevails. Travesty it had to come to this but fair play to aschers for defending personal freedoms. The people owe you a pint.


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    #3496
    Gael23
    Registered Users Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    European courts next?


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    #3497
    Cody montana
    Registered Users Posts: 5,243 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    Gael23 wrote: »
    European courts next?

    Hopefully.


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    #3498
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,566 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Gael23 wrote: »
    European courts next?

    I think it's important to remind people that this is over a £500 fine.

    Supreme Court is enough, I wouldn't fancy those legal bills to be honest.


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    #3499
    7aubzxk43m2sni
    Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    You'd have to wonder why the guardian insist on calling it a "gay wedding cake" when that's not what it is?


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    #3500
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,553 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    Sensible.

    https://twitter.com/Deborah_utv/status/1049948278836654080
    golfball37 wrote: »
    Well done Supreme Court. Common sense prevails. Travesty it had to come to this but fair play to aschers for defending personal freedoms. The people owe you a pint.
    Harvey Slimy Doorknob wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    You'd have to wonder why the guardian insist on calling it a "gay wedding cake" when that's not what it is?

    Probably keep calling it a "wedding cake" to stoke the controversy and make it relevant.
    I'm delighted to see common sense applied in this case.
    The right to freedom of speech in their refusal to make the cake, is just as valid as the right to service.
    The attempt to "make an example" of the Ashers has failed.

    I am not a fan of dogma of any shade, and in particular of the religious variety but the right to conscientously object to providing a service at odds with ones personally held belief is a right worth upholding.


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    #3501
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,248 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Harvey Slimy Doorknob wrote: »
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    You'd have to wonder why the guardian insist on calling it a "gay wedding cake" when that's not what it is?

    In the Graun's fantasy world, cake can have a sexual orientation.
    Cake can probably have a gender as well.


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    #3502
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Good sensible judgement

    “It is deeply humiliating, and an affront to human dignity, to deny someone a service because of that person’s race, gender, disability, sexual orientation or any of the other protected personal characteristics,” Hale said in the judgment.

    “But that is not what happened in this case and it does the project of equal treatment no favours to seek to extend it beyond its proper scope.”

    Freedom of expression, as guaranteed by article 10 of the European convention on human rights, includes the right “not to express an opinion which one does not hold”, Hale added. “This court has held that ‘nobody should be forced to have or express a political opinion in which he does not believe.

    “The bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake


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    #3503
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Good sensible judgement

    “It is deeply humiliating, and an affront to human dignity, to deny someone a service because of that person’s race, gender, disability, sexual orientation or any of the other protected personal characteristics,” Hale said in the judgment.

    “But that is not what happened in this case and it does the project of equal treatment no favours to seek to extend it beyond its proper scope.”

    Freedom of expression, as guaranteed by article 10 of the European convention on human rights, includes the right “not to express an opinion which one does not hold”, Hale added. “This court has held that ‘nobody should be forced to have or express a political opinion in which he does not believe.

    “The bakers could not refuse to supply their goods to Mr Lee because he was a gay man or supported gay marriage but that is quite different from obliging them to supply a cake iced with a message with which they profoundly disagreed.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/10/uk-supreme-court-backs-bakery-that-refused-to-make-gay-wedding-cake

    How did the previous judges who rules on this case not see this obvious point.


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    #3504
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    How did the previous judges who rules on this case not see this obvious point.

    Procedures probably!


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    #3505
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    How did the previous judges who rules on this case not see this obvious point.

    Supose they interpreted the law differently. Suprised by the descion but now it's law in the UK.

    Interesting that the judge quoted the reasons was it was in breach of European Human Rights. Probably means the same verdict would happen in Ireland too now?


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    #3506
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    ittakestwo wrote: »
    Supose they interpreted the law differently. Suprised by the descion but now it's law in the UK.

    Interesting that the judge quoted the reasons was it was in breach of European Human Rights. Probably means the same verdict would happen in Ireland too now?


    I don't think this would have even seen the light of day in Ireland

    It's NIs very strict anti discrimination laws that allowed the case to be taken by Mr Lee in the first case.


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    #3507
    keano_afc
    Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Great news, but a shame it had to go so far. Well done Ashers.


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    #3508
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    [/b]

    I don't think this would have even seen the light of day in Ireland

    It's NIs very strict anti discrimination laws that allowed the case to be taken by Mr Lee in the first case.

    But we are in the EU too. If what has happened is in breach of article 10 of European Human Rights then it is now likely all EU countries would have the same verdict?


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    #3509
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    keano_afc wrote: »
    Great news, but a shame it had to go so far. Well done Ashers.

    Dont think it's over just yet. Think this might finally end in Strasbourg.

    There will be a film no doubt to about it in the future.


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    #3510
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Too many posts for me to check through, but has anyone ( on here or legally ) raised the copyright problem of using Jim Henson's muppets in the first place?


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    #3511
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,165 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Link to the judgment.
    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Too many posts for me to check through, but has anyone ( on here or legally ) raised the copyright problem of using Jim Henson's muppets in the first place?
    Wasn't raised in the proceedings, so far as I can see. Since the cake was never actually baked the holder of the right to the images had no basis for suing anyone (and, if if they cake had been baked, would probably have thought twice about seeking to get involved in these particular proceedings).


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