The Mess - Military Forum Off Topic Thread!

captpaulf · 17-02-2017 2:50pm

They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London. Very impressive and bloody noisy.

sparky42 · 17-02-2017 3:20pm

captpaulf wrote: »

They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London. Very impressive and bloody noisy.

Was it marked as an RAF bird or a US bird? It could easily have been one There's no mention online of the RAF having any active, and even for special forces, standing up a new aircraft without any attention seems unlikely.

Also looking online that was when Obama was visiting so could easily have been US manned ones (remember when he was here there were Chinooks deployed here).

BoJack Horseman · 17-02-2017 9:30pm

captpaulf wrote: »

They already have at least 1 - saw it late last year flying low and slow over Central London

No, that one was American.

It is part of the helicopter entourage that accompanied Obama when he was over trying to interfere in the Brexit vote (oh the irony).....

It is in the green livery like Marine-1, however the aircraft is not yet cleared to carry POTUS.

The UK may get some eventually, but not in the next decade.... they could do with some.
They need a tanker option for the Queen Liz and its 'Killer Bees'

sparky42 · 17-02-2017 10:44pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No, that one was American.

It is part of the helicopter entourage that accompanied Obama when he was over trying to interfere in the Brexit vote (oh the irony).....

It is in the green livery like Marine-1, however the aircraft is not yet cleared to carry POTUS.

The UK may get some eventually, but not in the next decade.... they could do with some.
They need a tanker option for the Queen Liz and its 'Killer Bees'

As I've said before given the "discovered" new hole in the budget along with the potential nightmare of the SSBN's budget I don't see them having funding coming available anytime soon. I mean you have the 26's and the 31's (whatever they end up being), and with the investment in the Merlin AWAC's I'd say they will hold off.

captpaulf · 27-02-2017 12:53pm

My bad - it was a US one - couldn't make out the markings. Checking back on the press reports it does appear to have been a US one despite initial reports to the contrary.

BoJack Horseman · 27-02-2017 4:44pm

A procurement project down in Australia going at the moment is called "Land 400 phase 2"

Its goal is to replace their fleet of armoured reconnaissance vehicles wikied here

The competition has been whittled down to 2 competitors....
- From Rheinmetal/Germany is a Boxer APC with a 'lance turret' (probably the favourite).
- From BAE a nordic combo where a Patria AMV is combined with the turret of a CV-90

What is remarkable is the sheer size differential between the veteran and its replacement!

The Boxer

The AMV-30

Its clear that to be survivable in the future you have to get big, in a big way!

sparky42 · 27-02-2017 5:59pm

I suppose the reality of the aversion to losses and the lethality of weapon systems does mean that you need larger vehicles/more armour etc I mean the Boxer in combat load is about 3 times the weight of the ASLAV. Makes you wonder what we'll end up with when the MOWAG's get replaced next decade...

BoJack Horseman · 28-02-2017 1:35pm

The Al-Queda #2 met his maker recently in rebel held Syria... killed by an air-to-ground missile.

What was news to me was the use of a missile that either was inert or had its war-head replaced with some concrete!?

Here's a picture of the damaged car..... see, no explosives

?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F02%2Fhdhdnc1.jpg

?q=70&w=1440&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftimedotcom.files.wordpress.com%2F2017%2F02%2Fhdhdnc1.jpg

You could nearly buff out that damage

This is (apparently) a remnant of the missile used.... which seems like some cement/concrete.

What is fascinating here is the extreme to-the-centimeter accuracy from these weapons as well as the possibility of next to zero collateral damage.

BoJack Horseman · 28-02-2017 1:42pm

sparky42 wrote: »

Makes you wonder what we'll end up with when (if) the MOWAG's get replaced next decade...

I would highly doubt that Ireland will bother to purchase something as beefed up like these modern APCs/IFVs.

It seems to me at least that the role of our few APCs is to parade up O'Connell Street on St Patricks day...... never ever to be anywhere near a fight against a modern insurgent/guerilla force, which would have Irish forces hopelessly out-gunned.

I could be wrong, but I *think* the Mowag III is still being made/supported by the manufacturer, so if I had to guess this far out I think the government would just do a service life extension programme (SLEP) rather than buying new larger vehicles.

I think we paid €1.3m for our MOWAGs, but to compare.... the bare-bones APC from Patria costs just north of €2m per unit, that is without any weapons , defensive aids or armour enhancements.
So, €3m each is very possible.... more for the Cavalry/IFV versions.

Our government would surely balk at that kind of outlay?

sparky42 · 28-02-2017 3:11pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I would highly doubt that Ireland will bother to purchase something as beefed up like these modern APCs/IFVs.

It seems to me at least that the role of our few APCs is to parade up O'Connell Street on St Patricks day...... never ever to be anywhere near a fight against a modern insurgent/guerilla force, which would have Irish forces hopelessly out-gunned.

I could be wrong, but I *think* the Mowag III is still being made/supported by the manufacturer, so if I had to guess this far out I think the government would just do a service life extension programme (SLEP) rather than buying new larger vehicles.

I think we paid €1.3m for our MOWAGs, but to compare.... the bare-bones APC from Patria costs just north of €2m per unit, that is without any weapons , defensive aids or armour enhancements.
So, €3m each is very possible.... more for the Cavalry/IFV versions.

Our government would surely balk at that kind of outlay?

Our MOWAG's are going in for a SLEP starting soon enough, the Government already confirmed that. And while that will extend their lifespan by the mid 2020's they are going to have to be replaced (and the Scorpions before that), so by that stage it will be a larger unit to replace them (even just the future version of MOWAG)

AbusesToilets · 01-04-2017 4:38pm

Lengthy article on the F-35,cause it's been so long since the last one.

http://www.pogo.org/straus/issues/weapons/2017/f35-continues-to-stumble.html

Stovepipe · 06-04-2017 11:46pm

The Scorpions have been officially retired, so any Mowag upgrade will have to include a Scorpion replacement element, as it now leaves the 30mm as the heaviest AFV gun in the Army.

sparky42 · 07-04-2017 12:39am

Stovepipe wrote: »

The Scorpions have been officially retired, so any Mowag upgrade will have to include a Scorpion replacement element, as it now leaves the 30mm as the heaviest AFV gun in the Army.

I take it you mean the MOWAG replacement? The Upgrade program I thought was just resetting the fleet and uprating the Armour and such and fitting RCWS rather than the turrets?

Stovepipe · 07-04-2017 11:42am

Yes but it was considered that the 90mm Mowag be purchased to phase out the Scorpion, as a part of the Mowag deal, even as far back as the initial purchase.

Insertname · 08-09-2017 2:22pm

This seems like a pretty inactive section but I haven't found anywhere more appropriate to put my questions.

I seem to remember reading before that joining the army meant you had to swear off joining a political party ever. Is this still the case? Is it true for reserves? Have I got my facts completely un-straight?!

Thanks in advance

Manic Moran · 11-09-2017 9:58pm

Not for ever. Only while you are in the military. It's in the oath of enlistment.

"I do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a member of the Defence Forces I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and that while I am a member of the Permanent Defence Forces I will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any political organisation or society or any secret society whatsoever and that, if I become a member of the Reserve Defence Forces, I will not, while I am a member of the Reserve Defence Forces, join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever."

The prohibition does not apply to the reserves, note it says "member of the permanent defence forces".

The reserve equivalent is "I, <name>, do solemnly swear (or declare) that I will be faithful to Ireland and loyal to the Constitution and that while I am a member of the Reserve Defence Force I will obey all lawful orders issued to me by my superior officers and will not join or be a member of or subscribe to any secret society whatsoever."

Manic Moran · 02-10-2017 4:32pm

Did anyone catch this one? Interview with Ireland's first muslim soldier, now an Lt. Col. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/life-as-a-muslim-in-the-irish-defence-forces-1.3235829

BoJack Horseman · 13-03-2018 12:01am

The latest Arleigh Burke destroyer to be named has been bestowed upon an Irish man, Patrick Gallagher from Ballyhaunis.

Story here:

https://news.usni.org/2018/03/12/navy-names-destroyer-irish-marine-patrick-gallagher

Pepefrogok · 14-03-2018 9:37am

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

The latest Arleigh Burke destroyer to be named has been bestowed upon an Irish man, Patrick Gallagher from Ballyhaunis.

Story here:

https://news.usni.org/2018/03/12/navy-names-destroyer-irish-marine-patrick-gallagher

Great ship, great story, great man!

BoJack Horseman · 16-03-2018 11:00am

Down in Australia, the favourite Rheinmetall won their "Land 400 phase 2" competition to replace the Lav25 recon vehicle.

211 will be built over the next few years at an eye watering cost of AUD$5 billion.

It will sport 4 dismounts, driver, commnder & a 2 man 'Lance' turret.
The turret will have a 30mm cannon with an independent .50cal RWS and 2 x ATGMs in an internal launcher.... the favourite for that is now France's new MMP

Considering the current and future threats, you have to go big or go home

sparky42 · 16-03-2018 3:48pm

I suppose with the survivablity demanded now you have to go up to a certain size but she's a beast alright.

AbusesToilets · 17-03-2018 2:42am

Only 4 dismounts in a vehicle of that size? That's going to make for some interesting adjustments to squad sizes.

tricky D · 16-04-2018 1:33am

Sir

R. Lee Ermey has shuffled off the coil. RIP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j3_iPskjxk

Yes Sir

Jcarroll07 · 22-04-2018 5:52pm

Stovepipe wrote: »

The Scorpions have been officially retired, so any Mowag upgrade will have to include a Scorpion replacement element, as it now leaves the 30mm as the heaviest AFV gun in the Army.

A hand full of scorpions armed with relatively speaking small caliber low velocity main guns. In all fairness are the defense forces really loose much?

If the defense forces really wanted a useful deployable weapons system to fill the role would they would be best off looking at something like the AMX-10RC or Striker 105mm variant ( M1128 Mobile Gun System ). Modern and effective as well as being wheel based.

BoJack Horseman · 24-04-2018 12:27am

Jcarroll07 wrote: »

A hand full of scorpions armed with relatively speaking small caliber low velocity main guns. In all fairness are the defense forces really loose much?

If the defense forces really wanted a useful deployable weapons system to fill the role would they would be best off looking at something like the AMX-10RC or Striker 105mm variant ( M1128 Mobile Gun System ). Modern and effective as well as being wheel based.

Even the old school 90mm low-pressure guns are still being made today.

Belgian company CMI defence have a range of differing turrets for low/medium weight vehicles.

Gone out of fashion in the West, in the rush to reduce everything to a .50cal.
But still a very useful option for infantry support

sparky42 · 16-05-2018 11:18pm

Just as a bit of a laugh and proof that the Germans have a sense of humour, they given the Naval NH 90's the class name "sealion". Is someone Trolling the UK?

BoJack Horseman · 18-05-2018 3:22pm

https://twitter.com/JeremyBinnie/status/997480116350529537

sparky42 · 18-05-2018 6:00pm

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

snip

Well at least she won't be far from one of her sisters I suppose. Though I doubt she'll get much sailing.

BoJack Horseman · 22-05-2018 1:10pm

IDF confirm the first operational usage of the F-35

https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/998816986917408768

BoJack Horseman · 26-05-2018 11:01pm

A very interesting and accessible run down of the state of play in the army of Finland.
(I know you were wondering).

https://corporalfrisk.com/2018/05/26/the-finnish-wartime-army/

sparky42 · 21-07-2018 10:00pm

Just as aside, I'm surprised that the RN has left Diamond here for the majority of the week?

AbusesToilets · 30-07-2018 9:17pm

Apparently the USAF is looking to buy upgraded F-15s to fill in the gaps of the fighter fleet. Looking to replace the agind C/D variants.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22372/exclusive-unmasking-the-f-15x-boeings-f-15c-d-eagle-replacement-fighter

sparky42 · 30-07-2018 9:38pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Apparently the USAF is looking to buy upgraded F-15s to fill in the gaps of the fighter fleet. Looking to replace the agind C/D variants.

http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22372/exclusive-unmasking-the-f-15x-boeings-f-15c-d-eagle-replacement-fighter

Not just the US, Israel is reportedly going to buy some new ones as well, guessing out of the same production variant. I'd guess at least some of this is the production line must be getting close to it's end and maybe someone wants to have a fall back.
https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/aging-aircraft-usaf-f-15-fleet-grounded-04149/

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2018 10:03am

Joyce finishing up helping the people traffickers.

https://twitter.com/EMADmde/status/1036516631994880000

BoJack Horseman · 30-09-2018 9:59pm

Excellent photo essay from Mitch @ NavalAnalyses of the Yeates

https://www.navalanalyses.com/2018/09/photo-gallery-22-william-butler-yeats.html

BoJack Horseman · 09-10-2018 9:07pm

Military budget 2019

Pensions: €244m

Defence expenditure: €722m
Of which payroll costs: €500m

As a percentage of GDP this amounts to just 3/10ths of a single percent of GDP

Ireland's defence spending remains by that metric the lowest in the EU (even lower than Luxembourg).

Tabnabs · 18-10-2018 12:56pm

Plenty of live footage from the Trident Juncture 2018 NATO exercise in Norway.

https://www.nrk.no/video/PS*a25405e3-fc85-4252-b97e-cda7b73767b7

Manic Moran · 21-10-2018 1:05am

Final standings, sniper competition.

44314224_1899873380049039_282378968542216192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=b83f80727a20ad665e4f77828a519be2&oe=5C59B6F2

44314224_1899873380049039_282378968542216192_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=b83f80727a20ad665e4f77828a519be2&oe=5C59B6F2

tac foley · 21-10-2018 9:37am

Great job, Rangers!!!

Brits have some improving to do, for sure...

ohnonotgmail · 21-10-2018 3:38pm

Should I be surprised that their are three National Guard units in the top 10?

Manic Moran · 21-10-2018 8:02pm

Probably not. I'll wager they shoot more on civilian ranges as a hobby than full-time personnel shoot on the military ranges.

By comparison, usually National Guard units don't do so well in the tank competition. This year North Carolina Guard was the top scoring Guard team, they came 15th, just after the Kuwaiti team. There was a bit of an anomaly in 2016 when NC Guard came first overall.

tac foley · 21-10-2018 8:14pm

Given the amount of fun shooting that goes on in the USA in any event, when out of uniform, just gives all the more kudos to the gentlemen from Ranger Wing.

Even here in yUK I can, and often do, shoot three or four times a week centre fire and .22, and that pales into almost total insignificance when you bear in mind that the place I shoot at over in Oregon, the Tri-Counties Gun Club, is open 24/7/365 with 100/300/600 yard ranges for rifles alone, igoring, pro tem, the hundred or so places on the numerous pistol ranges. Most times I'm there it sounds like Omaha Beach.

sparky42 · 08-11-2018 2:16pm

The Norwegian Navy is the latest to fall victim to "tanker collision condition", with one of their frigates heavily damaged this morning at the end of the NATO exercise, she's been evacuated with 8 injured and is sinking, tugs have tried to push her up onto shallow ground to save her but looks like a total loss at the moment.
https://www.bt.no/nyheter/lokalt/i/p62oaW/Satte-fregatten-pa-land-med-vilje

Manic Moran · 11-11-2018 5:09am

Partaking in a Remembrance Day ceremony in Canada today. Of course, Murrica, as I’m doing it from the TC’s hatch of an M60

tac foley · 11-11-2018 2:05pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Partaking in a Remembrance Day ceremony in Canada today. Of course, Murrica, as I’m doing it from the TC’s hatch of an M60

And I've just arrived home from my annual pilgrimage to four RCAF flyers who died on 26th February 1942. I take care of their graves, and other Canadian CWGC in the local area.

It's ten years since I was home in Canada for Remembrance Day in Ottawa, but I'll be there again next year for sure.

Take care, and thanks for being there instead of me.

tac

sparky42 · 13-11-2018 12:07pm

A follow on on the Ingstad, looks like she's gone completely:
https://navaltoday.com/2018/11/13/hnoms-helge-ingstad-now-almost-completely-sunk-norwegian-navy-photos-show/

tac foley · 13-11-2018 12:41pm

sparky42 wrote: »

A follow on on the Ingstad, looks like she's gone completely:
https://navaltoday.com/2018/11/13/hnoms-helge-ingstad-now-almost-completely-sunk-norwegian-navy-photos-show/

Looks like those 'secure' anchoring points weren't.

A 'whoops' moment there, [former] Captain, doncha think?

I just love the comment 'almost completely sunk'. To me, if the only part of a ship visible above water is the top ten feet of the mainmast, well, that qualifies it as 'completely sunk'. It's not as though any amount of bailing out is going to be of much use, right?

ohnonotgmail · 13-11-2018 12:46pm

tac foley wrote: »

Looks like those 'secure' anchoring points weren't.

A 'whoops' moment there, [former] Captain, doncha think?

I just love the comment 'almost completely sunk'. To me, if the only part of a ship visible above water is the top ten feet of the mainmast, well, that qualifies it as 'completely sunk'. It's not as though any amount of bailing out is going to be of much use, right?

It is like describing somebody as "mostly dead". the only thing stopping it from sinking further is the bottom of the sea. even if they did manage to refloat the whole ship will have to be refitted due to flood damage. I see a short future manning a desk for the captain.

sparky42 · 13-11-2018 1:19pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is like describing somebody as "mostly dead". the only thing stopping it from sinking further is the bottom of the sea. even if they did manage to refloat the whole ship will have to be refitted due to flood damage. I see a short future manning a desk for the captain.

Given the amount of electronics in such modern ships, "refitting" wouldn't be feasible I would think, all the pricey **** would have to be replaced (ie the radar, control systems, engines...), add in if she did slip then she's ripped more of the hull on the rocks...

Easier just to scrap her and think about a new build from Spain.

I think it won't be just the Captain, the entire watch crew are going to have a short career I'd say.

sparky42 · 13-11-2018 1:24pm

tac foley wrote: »

Looks like those 'secure' anchoring points weren't.

The update from the Norwegians is that one of the bow cables snapped last night and the bow sank by a meter, despite attempts to reconnecting it the rest of the bow lines snapped as well leading to where we are now. The aft cables are still holding but she has to be a total write off at this stage.

The Mess - Military Forum Off Topic Thread!

Comments