Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

The Rape of Lucretia · 04-10-2018 06:18PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

bollix

While I find your arguments compelling, well elucidated, and with a certain logical foundation, I still feel that your case breaks down due to its lack of genuine rebuttal of my proposition.

elperello · 04-10-2018 06:20PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

While I find your arguments compelling, well elucidated, and with a certain logical foundation, I still feel that your case breaks down due to its lack of genuine rebuttal of my proposition.

Well all I can say is that I really really like the taste of the drinks that I imbibe.

Reputable Rog · 04-10-2018 06:49PM

Quackster wrote: »

Duty free is generally restricted to plane or ferry (or more unusually train) travel as opposed to crossing a land border so you won't be able to claim back the UK duty but you'll still be restricted to bringing back a very small allowance before being forced to pay Irish duty and VAT on your purchases. You may be able to claim back the UK VAT though.

There'll also be the hassle of having to stop at an Irish customs facility somewhere to make your declaration and pay any monies due or risk being stopped, having your goods confiscated and potentially being fined if you attempt to smuggle alcohol across the border.

There's a few between Greece and Turkey, Russia and Finland.An entrepreneurial type will no doubt take up the opportunity.

ohnonotgmail · 04-10-2018 06:59PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

While I find your arguments compelling, well elucidated, and with a certain logical foundation, I still feel that your case breaks down due to its lack of genuine rebuttal of my proposition.

My comment is all that your post warranted. You dont like something so nobody else can either.

Sweetemotion · 04-10-2018 07:00PM

This might be a stupid question, but can we not just buy it online from another country in the EU and get it delivered to our door?

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:02PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so increasing the minimum age of alcohol will reduce the amount of younger people drinking alcohol? are we trying to rationalise again?

Under 18s have asked me to buy them drink in the past and I said no. If the law changed so under 21s could not buy drink, I would say no to them also.

Sweetemotion · 04-10-2018 07:03PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Under 18s have asked me to buy them drink in the past and I said no. If the law changed so under 21s could not buy drink, I would say no to them also.

They will just ask the person after you to buy them beer.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:03PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Really though ?
It isnt clear whether anyone likes the taste of alcoholic drinks.

It is more likely that the 'acquired taste' for alcohol is simply a combination of association with good times, conviviality, being adult, choosing one drink over another as a mark of one's discernment and individuality, affectations of sophistication, and subscribing to the various aspirational lifestyle constructs of the advertising industry.

Combined with a propensity to enjoy feeling squiffy. But that is unrelated to the taste as such.

Learning to appreciate alcoholic drinks does appear more a case of learning to accept them without revulsion rather than true enjoyment.
Children, unaffected by these influences, always repel alcohol (unless masked by excessive syrup or overpowering flavour) - which is the honest human reaction to the the taste.

It seem like you have never had the right wine with the right food or are somehow lacking in the ability to appreciate it. It doesn't just taste good it makes the food taste better.

Tasters can appreciate the qualities of a superior wine to a basic one, of an aged whisky to a basic one - and act upon this in how they spend their money. It's just not just about the buzz of the alcohol, that is only one element in the mix.

People's tastes evolve as they get older. The tastes of children are irrelevent unless you're planning on selling stuff to kids. Coming to like something through a gradual process of acquisition is still liking it. It's not just alcohol, it's coffee, tea, chilis, cranberry juice even. Bittersweet is a combination that appeals to humanity across culture and time.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:05PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Will you be lobbying your local TD to put a minimum price on motor vehicles?? 158 deaths last year. Thousands of people hospitalised. Who’s paying for the hospital treatment of all these rta victims??

This thread is about alcohol. Focus weldoninhio.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:08PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

This thread is about alcohol. Focus weldoninhio.

It's clear you are focused on trying to ignore analogies which highlight the basic flaws in your logic.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:15PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's a bag of rubbish. To take one example Tesco don't just have own brand booze, they have own brand bread, toilet roll, refuse sacks, bottled water, soft drinks, juice, biscuits, handwash, toothpaste, shampoo which is 'low priced' relative to a full price branded product... LIDL run weekends with half price wine, they also run weekends with half price toilet roll, pet food and yes, rubbish bags. It's about getting customers in the door and market share. It's not some deep ploy to create a nation of drinkers any more than it's a ploy to create a nation of bog roll users or pet owners.

There are different reasons why drink is cheap, in the above case the motive may be footfall but the consequence is the same as when drink is given away cheaply to lure another generation into the habit of drinking alcohol. Hence the necessity for the legislation.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:22PM

VinLieger wrote: »

So we have a higher price and higher age limit than our european cousins who drink less than us and your solution to get us drinking less is to increase both further?

That's some joined up thinking alright

Not sure what you mean. As far as I know the age limit in most other EU countries is 18 just as it is in Ireland. In Ireland, salaries are fairly good (too good in my opinion) hence the cost of living is generally higher.

Culturally, the Irish are known for drinking and to slay that dragon we need unapologetically draconian legislation with much higher prices.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:22PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

There are different reasons why drink is cheap, in the above case the motive may be footfall but the consequence is the same as when drink is given away cheaply to lure another generation into the habit of drinking alcohol. Hence the necessity for the legislation.

It's not cheap, you keep saying that without any justification whatsoever. We already have some of the most expensive alcohol in the EU.
Your blatant "ostrich in the sand" attempts to ignore this point have not gone unnoticed.

It's not about luring in the next generation. When you're not sure what to drink, you don't go out and buy a slab of cans of a full bottle of whiskey. You're buying individual bottles of beer, naggins of spirits, premixed cocktails, all of which if you look at the alcohol % and price won't be affected by MUP because they are smaller quanities and so more expensive.
Go into LIDL at 1030 on a saturday morning on a weekend with a nice half price wine. It's not teenagers buying it.

Finally, there's nothing wrong with drinking alcohol in moderation. There's nothing wrong with the habit of drinking alcohol. There's nothing wrong with teenagers coming to like alcohol and enjoying it.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:24PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. As far as I know the age limit in most other EU countries is 18 just as it is in Ireland. In Ireland, salaries are fairly good (too good in my opinion) hence the cost of living is generally higher.

Culturally, the Irish are known for drinking and to slay that dragon we need unapologetically draconian legislation with much higher prices.

Not only is our drink too cheap but we're paid too much as well.
We're so feckless we probably shouldn't even have the right to vote.
*tugs forelock*

You are beyond parody at this stage.

If it was 1820 I might agree with you but could you come back to the reality of 21st century Ireland and cut out the quasi racist / irish self-hatred guff.

Hotblack Desiato · 04-10-2018 07:27PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Coming to like something through a gradual process of acquisition is still liking it.

Not everyone's first ride is great either. I suppose we're all only pretending to like sex.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:28PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What gives you, or me, or anyone else the right to tell people how to choose to deal with psychological demons that they have?

To tell can mean to inform or to order. I used it to inform. Wasn`t that nice of me?

Hotblack Desiato · 04-10-2018 07:29PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not only is our drink too cheap but we're paid too much as well.
You are beyond parody at this stage.

You're talking to the guy who wants to bring back workhouses.

10000maniacs · 04-10-2018 07:33PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Not sure what you mean. As far as I know the age limit in most other EU countries is 18 just as it is in Ireland. In Ireland, salaries are fairly good (too good in my opinion) hence the cost of living is generally higher.

Culturally, the Irish are known for drinking and to slay that dragon we need unapologetically draconian legislation with much higher prices.

Do you ever get the impression this forum is rim full of feckin' school teachers?. FFS

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:39PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I am stating that penalising everyone to solve a problem that only a subset of that 'everyone' actively contributes to is unfair, and I'd apply that in every context, not just alcohol.

EDIT: Also, you still haven't answered my question - I've stated that I haven't been harmed by other peoples' alcohol consumption, and you have responded that I'm either a hermit or being dishonest. So again I ask you - how specifically do you imagine that I must surely have been negatively impacted by someone else's drinking? Can you cite some examples of things that apparently "everyone" deals with when others around them choose to get drunk? I'm all ears. Perhaps I've missed something.

I did not accuse you of being dishonest nor did I call you a hermit, that was only a guess.

Penalizing everyone is a price worth paying. I would be happy to forego the very rare occasion I might have a drink if it meant less of my tax was needed to run the HSE and if it meant no more inconsiderate and unruly behavior by drunk people on public transport, on planes and what not.

Spanish Eyes · 04-10-2018 07:39PM

Bring in prohibition. That's surely next, because this kind of mullarkey meddling in people's lives will NOT work to solve anything alcohol related.

I know I am preaching to the converted, but this is all to get people back in the pubs and curb "at home drinking".

Won't work. No matter what they do people will still buy and drink at home to their heart's content. They do not have to walk/taxi/bus to the pub. They do not have to pay inflated prices. They will not even get a packet of peanuts for gracing the establishment. They will have to get home aswell, so add 40 or so quid to the pot for the privilege of coming home by taxi (depending on the distance admittedly, but you get the point I am sure).

It is ridiculous the amount of clout the Vintners have, and equally ridiculous the amount of control that is placed on ordinary people who like to have a few cans/bottles/nice wine at home away from the forced jollity of a pub full of drunks.

Sorry now. But the majority are actually suffering for the way the few may behave. Nanny I hear you!

I personally do not care how much off sales will cost, I like having friends around and the conviviality of a house meet with a few jars. How do they think they are going to stop that?

It will NEVER ever again be as enjoyable or cheaper to go to an overpriced noisy pub.

I'm a wee bit older sorry, I might sound odd. But I'm talking about the many, not the few.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:47PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

You dont have to be young and into partying to know that punishing the majority for the actions of a minority is wrong.

The "punishment" is priceless for the majority. Sure the cost of drink will be more expensive but on the plus side, it will cost more for the minority to get drunk. Drunk people tend to cause more accidents, get into more fights, they tend to be louder, more obnoxious and smellier than your average Joe.

So higher prices have a definite benefit.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:49PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

I did not accuse you of being dishonest nor did I call you a hermit, that was only a guess.
Penalizing everyone is a price worth paying. I would be happy to forego the very rare occasion I might have a drink if it meant less of my tax was needed to run the HSE and if it meant no more inconsiderate and unruly behavior by drunk people on public transport, on planes and what not.

More of your tax might be needed not just to run the HSE, but to pay for pensions and so on. Apparently alcohol is killing off all these people before their time. What's the additional cost to the taxpayer if someone instead was a teetotaller, lived another 20 years collecting pension payments, and then gets arthritis and dementia and needs nursing home care?
Plus the state won't get getting any alcohol sales tax revenue from them.
I'd like to see the breakdown of what the additional cost to the state is for a drinker versus a non drinker. Without that, it's entirely premature to think this will mean less government spending.

I'm assuming your only concern for your fellow citizens is how much they are costing you in tax.

It's all very well for you to be happy to forego your drink, but I see zero grounds for why you think the second part of your equation will be delivered - given that this is just a measure to herd people towards pubs. And there are pubs in the airport. And drunken people coming home from pubs take buses and trains.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 07:50PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

The "punishment" is priceless for the majority. Sure the cost of drink will be more expensive but on the plus side, it will cost more for the minority to get drunk. Drunk people tend to cause more accidents, get into more fights, they tend to be louder, more obnoxious and smellier than your average Joe.

Some people don't need drink to be loud, obnoxious or smelly.

I guess people drunk on alcohol from pubs smell more sweetly?

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 07:57PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's clear you are focused on trying to ignore analogies which highlight the basic flaws in your logic.

If we focus on all these analogies, we would be here all day. I am not saying they are all completely without merit but discussing them would have a filibustering effect.

10000maniacs · 04-10-2018 08:04PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Some people don't need drink to be loud, obnoxious or smelly.

I guess people drunk on alcohol from pubs smell more sweetly?

The Hooley Rays will be dancing on top of their cars again. Its a result for them. Kerching

Garibaldi? · 04-10-2018 08:05PM

I wonder will there be a run on the off licences of the supermarkets in the coming days. Could have a counter productive effect!

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 08:07PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's not cheap...

Yes it is. Slabs of cans are dirt cheap in some retailers and in the pubs there are special promotions making alcohol all too accessible. A minimum price is absolutely imperative.

odyssey06 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with teenagers coming to like alcohol and enjoying it.

It would be more in their line to study, work or volunteer.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 08:08PM

Garibaldi? wrote: »

I wonder will there be a run on the off licences of the supermarkets in the coming days. Could have a counter productive effect!

Don't panic.. yet. If it does look likely to come into force then I'm sure this will happen, but it's not yet signed into law here and won't be activated unless the North implements it. There would need to be significant time allotted for retailers to update their IT systems \ pricing etc to account for the levy structure.

odyssey06 · 04-10-2018 08:11PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Yes it is. Slabs of cans are dirt cheap in some retailers and in the pubs there are special promotions making alcohol all too accessible. A minimum price is absolutely imperative. .

Dirt's not even cheap these days, ask Greyhound.

Can you give us a list of these special promotions so we can establish for ourselves how accessible they are? I keep hearing rumours on this thread of cheap alcohol in pubs but no definite leads.

realitykeeper · 04-10-2018 08:13PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Not only is our drink too cheap but we're paid too much as well.
We're so feckless we probably shouldn't even have the right to vote.
*tugs forelock*

You are beyond parody at this stage.

If it was 1820 I might agree with you but could you come back to the reality of 21st century Ireland and cut out the quasi racist / irish self-hatred guff.

Ireland runs a fiscal deficit and is in debt to the tune of 200 billion +. I assure you, self restraint now would be better than dealing with reality when the time comes to pay the piper.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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