Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Options
1…959698100101…307

Comments

  • Options
    #2912
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Not the aim of the law though - the vinters don't care how much you drink, they care where you drink it.
    It is the point of the law. Vintners opinions and where you drink are not the point because cheap drink can be sold in pubs and off licences.


  • Options
    #2913
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Right, so you agree that this legislation is flawed. Make sure to tell your locals TD's to vote against it and instead come up with a proper solution.

    I agree with the legislation, it is just perfect the way it is.

    I now propose another piece of legislation. Increase the minimum age for drinking alcohol!


  • Options
    #2914
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,814 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I agree with the legislation, it is just perfect the way it is.

    I now propose another piece of legislation. Increase the minimum age for drinking alcohol!

    so increasing the minimum age of alcohol will reduce the amount of younger people drinking alcohol? are we trying to rationalise again?


  • Options
    #2915
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Make alcohol too expensive, be grand. Bag of sniff or a few pills will be cheaper.


  • Options
    #2916
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    You say the point is stupid yet you confirm it is correct. You see? Realitykeeper keeps it real.

    Will you be lobbying your local TD to put a minimum price on motor vehicles?? 158 deaths last year. Thousands of people hospitalised. Who’s paying for the hospital treatment of all these rta victims??


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2917
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,003 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Low priced alcohol is intended to get people (who would not otherwise drink,) to drink. The drink industry hope these people will go on to drink a lot, for the rest of their lives. It is a common marketing ploy.

    That's a bag of rubbish. To take one example Tesco don't just have own brand booze, they have own brand bread, toilet roll, refuse sacks, bottled water, soft drinks, juice, biscuits, handwash, toothpaste, shampoo which is 'low priced' relative to a full price branded product... LIDL run weekends with half price wine, they also run weekends with half price toilet roll, pet food and yes, rubbish bags. It's about getting customers in the door and market share. It's not some deep ploy to create a nation of drinkers any more than it's a ploy to create a nation of bog roll users or pet owners.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #2918
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,657 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I agree with the legislation, it is just perfect the way it is.

    I now propose another piece of legislation. Increase the minimum age for drinking alcohol!


    So we have a higher price and higher age limit than our european cousins who drink less than us and your solution to get us drinking less is to increase both further?


    That's some joined up thinking alright


  • Options
    #2919
    CaptainPants
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭CaptainPants


    Person who doesnt have a drink problem: "Jeez, 5 euro for a can of beer. Well maybe Ill just buy three, that'll do me fine."

    Person who does have a drink problem: "5 quid a can? Well no Xmas presents for the kids this year.."


  • Options
    #2920
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,657 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    CaptainPants wrote: »
    Person who doesnt have a drink problem: "Jeez, 5 euro for a can of beer. Well maybe Ill just buy three, that'll do me fine."

    Person who does have a drink problem: "5 quid a can? Well no Xmas presents for the kids this year.."


    This is one of the huge disconnects for me, everyone saying it will help stop problem drinkers has blatantly never had any experience with addiction if they think price holds any concern to an addict who is looking to get their fix.

    People also use the argument of how much problem drinkers cost our health service but that has no substance either since none of this price increase or at least very very little of it will be picked up by the government.


  • Options
    #2921
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    VinLieger wrote: »
    This is one of the huge disconnects for me, everyone saying it will help stop problem drinkers has blatantly never had any experience with addiction if they think price holds any concern to an addict who is looking to get their fix.

    People also use the argument of how much problem drinkers cost our health service but that has no substance either since none of this price increase or at least very very little of it will be picked up by the government.

    As stated may times before, it's less to do with current problem drinking but rather trying to reduce the possibility of future problem drinking.

    Just like the Guinness ads at the rugby game are not for the current Guinness drinker but the potential future Guinness drinker.

    Higher pricing is a barrier to entry, lower pricing is not.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2922
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 28,003 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    VinLieger wrote: »
    People also use the argument of how much problem drinkers cost our health service but that has no substance either since none of this price increase or at least very very little of it will be picked up by the government.

    Plus, and I'm not saying this as either a positive or negative thing, merely stating that the accounting of those figures is nonsense to begin with. If someone is dead at 60 from cirrhosis of the liver they only want to count the 'cost to the health service' not the un-deducted pension amounts or cost of nursing home care or HSE & GP care and prescriptions for 20 more years...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #2923
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    CaptainPants wrote: »
    Person who doesnt have a drink problem: "Jeez, 5 euro for a can of beer. Well maybe Ill just buy three, that'll do me fine."

    Person who does have a drink problem: "5 quid a can? Well no Xmas presents for the kids this year.."

    Yep, that just about sums it up. It'll have little impact at all, except to likely drive more social welfare money into the profits of the big brewers. To the loss of recipients and those they're supposed to care for. And no, I don't think drink problems are confined to those on low or no incomes but that's where these cost increases will impact most.


  • Options
    #2924
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Higher pricing is a barrier to entry, lower pricing is not.

    Look if you want to go down this road, you'd be better off campaigning for a complete ban on the sale of or consumption of alcohol. It'd be more honest.


  • Options
    #2925
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,485 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    As stated may times before, it's less to do with current problem drinking but rather trying to reduce the possibility of future problem drinking.

    Just like the Guinness ads at the rugby game are not for the current Guinness drinker but the potential future Guinness drinker.

    Higher pricing is a barrier to entry, lower pricing is not.

    I agree with the overall view, but where are the statistics to back any of this up? What type of booze are young people buying? Are they only buying the cheap brands in the offy?

    If they are of legal age then why restrict them? If we deem 18 to be hold enough shouldn't they be old enough to make their own decisions?

    If youth drinking is the core of the problem, then better and stricter enforcement of the current laws and increasing penalties.

    1st strike, closed for a day, then a week, month, year etc. Along with prosecutions. Same for pubs.


  • Options
    #2926
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I agree with the overall view, but where are the statistics to back any of this up? What type of booze are young people buying? Are they only buying the cheap brands in the offy?

    If they are of legal age then why restrict them? If we deem 18 to be hold enough shouldn't they be old enough to make their own decisions?

    If youth drinking is the core of the problem, then better and stricter enforcement of the current laws and increasing penalties.

    1st strike, closed for a day, then a week, month, year etc. Along with prosecutions. Same for pubs.

    Don’t you dare bring pubs into this. Only supermarket booze is bad booze!!!


  • Options
    #2927
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I agree with the overall view, but where are the statistics to back any of this up?  What type of booze are young people buying?  Are they only buying the cheap brands in the offy?  

    If they are of legal age then why restrict them?  If we deem 18 to be hold enough shouldn't they be old enough to make their own decisions?

    If youth drinking is the core of the problem, then better and stricter enforcement of the current laws and increasing penalties.

    1st strike, closed for a day, then a week, month, year etc.  Along with prosecutions.  Same for pubs.

    Don’t you dare bring pubs into this. Only supermarket booze is bad booze!!!
    Pubs and nightclubs offering very cheap drinks by way of promotions will be affected by this legislation.


  • Options
    #2928
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Leroy42 wrote: »
    I agree with the overall view, but where are the statistics to back any of this up?  What type of booze are young people buying?  Are they only buying the cheap brands in the offy?  

    If they are of legal age then why restrict them?  If we deem 18 to be hold enough shouldn't they be old enough to make their own decisions?

    If youth drinking is the core of the problem, then better and stricter enforcement of the current laws and increasing penalties.

    1st strike, closed for a day, then a week, month, year etc.  Along with prosecutions.  Same for pubs.

    Don’t you dare bring pubs into this. Only supermarket booze is bad booze!!!
    Pubs and nightclubs offering very cheap drinks by way of promotions will be affected by this legislation.


  • Options
    #2929
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,173 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    joe40 wrote: »
    Pubs and nightclubs offering very cheap drinks by way of promotions will be affected by this legislation.


    No they wont. They would have to be offering 80%+ discounts on their regular prices to be affected. I have never seen a nightclub or pub offering those sort of discounts. If you know some please let us all know.


  • Options
    #2930
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,034 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    I wonder where these pubs and nightclubs that are offering 'very cheap' drinks by way of promotions are?


  • Options
    #2931
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,657 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    As stated may times before, it's less to do with current problem drinking but rather trying to reduce the possibility of future problem drinking.


    Not according to the politicians or the anti alcohol lobby its not, it has been trotted out always that the MUP was aimed at problem drinkers.


    You are making up your own reasons that the people in charge of drafting and passing this have never mentioned once as far as im aware.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2932
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    An analogy is fine but not a false analogy.

    I strongly believe people should not use alcohol in order to exude confidence. If they want to show confidence they should use the money they waste on alcohol to attend a psychotherapist who will then help them with any issues they have.

    What gives you, or me, or anyone else the right to tell people how to choose to deal with psychological demons that they have?

    I do understand your perspective, you are young and into partying but there is a more sinister side to alcohol.

    I'm not denying that. I am stating that penalising everyone to solve a problem that only a subset of that 'everyone' actively contributes to is unfair, and I'd apply that in every context, not just alcohol.

    EDIT: Also, you still haven't answered my question - I've stated that I haven't been harmed by other peoples' alcohol consumption, and you have responded that I'm either a hermit or being dishonest. So again I ask you - how specifically do you imagine that I must surely have been negatively impacted by someone else's drinking? Can you cite some examples of things that apparently "everyone" deals with when others around them choose to get drunk? I'm all ears. Perhaps I've missed something.


  • Options
    #2933
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,173 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    An analogy is fine but not a false analogy.

    I strongly believe people should not use alcohol in order to exude confidence. If they want to show confidence they should use the money they waste on alcohol to attend a psychotherapist who will then help them with any issues they have. I do understand your perspective, you are young and into partying but there is a more sinister side to alcohol.


    You dont have to be young and into partying to know that punishing the majority for the actions of a minority is wrong.


  • Options
    #2934
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    It's a cultural thing.

    In Asia you can buy alcohol 24/7 from corner shops, etc., and it's cheap. Yet hardly anyone in that part of the world binge drinks.

    Asia have a restaurant and family culture. You sit at home or in a local restaurant with your family and share a big meal together.

    Perhaps one of the reasons Irish people drink so much is the lack of family. There's a lot of isolation. And we're terrible and sharing our feelings. So best to just lock them up and use alcohol to numb ourselves.

    I feel the government would be better off spending its time trying to make a shift in our culture.


  • Options
    #2935
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    This is about to be debated in the Dáil, hopefully we get more epic filibustering antics from our independents :cool:


  • Options
    #2936
    Mr. teddywinkles
    Registered Users Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭Mr. teddywinkles


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Let's say Dutch Gold goes up in price to the same price Heineken is now, do you honestly think they will continue to sell Heineken at the same price as Dutch Gold? The so-called "premium" product will go up in price to differentiate it from the used-to-be-cheap product. Not that there's any such thing as cheap alcohol in Ireland.

    I think this is the thing people aren't getting. Unless they pull the cheaper products altogether from the shelves.


  • Options
    #2937
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,666 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    joe40 wrote: »
    Irish (and British) teenagers get drunk more often than their European counterparts.
    We do have a problem with excessive drinking among many of our teenagers. That is a fact
    I can accept that people have different opinions about mup, but to deny that we, as a society, have a problem in this regard is just daft.

    Hold on to I have to keep calling out the lies in this thread from you and the usual suspects.

    You lot to more for the destruction of healthy attituded to alcohol than all the pubs combined.

    Irish teens do not drink more regularly than their counterparts ive spelled this out before

    http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-drinking-ireland-4254933-Sep2018/


    Now enough with the lies and start being responsible for what you type.


  • Options
    #2938
    Garibaldi?
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Garibaldi?


    I will continue to treat myself to the lower priced wine when it increases in price. Its milder and tastier than the expensive stuff. No point in eating/drinking what you don't like. Hop they dont stop selling it altogether,


  • Options
    #2939
    OMM 0000
    Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I make my own gin sometimes (using vodka as a base).

    I wonder will expensive alcohol just encourage people to start brewing their own beers and spirits?


  • Options
    #2940
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,814 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    OMM 0000 wrote:
    I wonder will expensive alcohol just encourage people to start brewing their own beers and spirits?


    Of course it will


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #2941
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,028 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    listermint wrote: »
    Hold on to I have to keep calling out the lies in this thread from you and the usual suspects.

    You lot to more for the destruction of healthy attituded to alcohol than all the pubs combined.

    Irish teens do not drink more regularly than their counterparts ive spelled this out before

    http://www.thejournal.ie/teenage-drinking-ireland-4254933-Sep2018/


    Now enough with the lies and start being responsible for what you type.

    What's interesting is the contrast between the anger of the tone of your post and the good news story you have linked.

    It's really great to hear that underage drinking has reduced so much

    But why sit on our laurels as if it's the end of the job, it's only the start of it, why not continue to reduce the numbers and break the unhealthy link this country has with alcohol.

    Higher pricing is one of the tools to break that link.


Advertisement