Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

I don't understand how someone can argue that increased alcohol prices work while claiming we're one of the worst nations for drinking. We have some of the highest alcohol costs in Europe. Can people not see the contradiction there?

The whole "if it was a million euro you wouldn't buy it" is a complete absurdity as well. Lets make cars cost millions so no one dies on the roads.

realitykeeper wrote: »

If a pint cost a million euro I suspect there would not be many buyers so it is wrong to say upping the price of drink is not one of the solutions.

I never said it wasn't. But it has already been tried, and found not to work as well as it is expected. So why are they simply, partially trying it again? In they aren't even increasing the price across the board, only on low price products. So pubs, restaurants and premium brands are being touched at all in any of this.

realitykeeper wrote: »

The minimum price proposal might result in more money for the retailers but who cares. That does not bother me, why should it? I am not jealous of people who make profits, I am too busy with my own interests to worry about somebody making a profit. The important thing is there will be less drink sold.

But there is little evidence to back up that claim. All the evidence to hand is that, as you point out, unless the price is €1m or something, a small price rise to only some products will not make any material difference.

But this is not people simply making profits, this is the state intervening in a market to move profits from some companies to others and to get the public to pay for it.

It is unfair anti competition rules.

realitykeeper wrote: »

I think the reason the MAP is so important is because the drinks industry want to fish and hook new drinkers. They will even go to the extent of giving free drink at student events to establish a new generation of drinkers. If you try to impose minimum pricing by putting a levy of say one euro on every unit of alcohol to nullify the free drink ploy, the the cost of drink would be astronomical (which some of us would welcome).

So increase the minimum age. Your solution seems to be based on future problem drinkers only come for poorer backgrounds.

You have legitimate concerns, but MAP does nothing to address any of them in a reasonable way

Leroy42 wrote: »

I never said it wasn't. But it has already been tried, and found not to work as well as it is expected. So why are they simply, partially trying it again? In they aren't even increasing the price across the board, only on low price products. So pubs, restaurants and premium brands are being touched at all in any of this.

They are doing it because it does work as the million euro pint illustration shows. They are targeting the same cohort of young drinkers as the drinks industry in order to prevent the problem the drinks industry is trying to benefit from.

I cannot respond to your other points because the quotes you are responding to did not show in the reply. You need to include the necessary quotation brackets for the quotes to show in the reply.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

They are targeting the cohort of people who buy lower priced alcohol. Apparently people who buy expensive alcohol cant become alcoholics and never cause any problems when drunk.

Especially those who buy that special magic pub alcohol.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Make pints a million euro, watch the black market and home brewing markets explode

Clearly the only reasonable option is to make homebrewing kits 2 million euro, and bring back the death penalty for black market sale of alcohol.

realitykeeper wrote: »

They are doing it because it does work as the million euro pint illustration shows. They are targeting the same cohort of young drinkers as the drinks industry in order to prevent the problem the drinks industry is trying to benefit from.

I cannot respond to your other points because the quotes you are responding to did not show in the reply. You need to include the necessary quotation brackets for the quotes to show in the reply.

Again, I have never said price rises do not work, of course they do. But given that we have some of the highest priced alcohol in the EU it would appear that it isn't as linear as you would seem to think.

In terms of the young drinkers, I agree that this should be targeted, so why not target it. We have a minimum age limit, surely simply put the price of beer based on age? Raise the minimum age across the entire industry.

Raising the minimum age is stupid. America being the leading example of how a 21 year age limit just makes thing worse not better, but it fits in with their historical puritanical streak.

realitykeeper wrote: »

The point being that upping the price contributes to a reduction in consumption.

Not the aim of the law though - the vinters don't care how much you drink, they care where you drink it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Doesn't matter what age it is - if you don't bring in some form of awareness education (and by education I don't just mean 'say no to drugs' **** and assume teenagers are going to listen to you) and useage and moderation advice, the potetnial for addiction and abuse is always going to be the same. This isn't a health issue, remember?

Well I was thinking more of a socialisation aspect of it... but I'm not suggesting it as an alternative to your points, which should be done regardless of MUP.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People need to stop comparing alcohol prices with Europe without comparing other factors like wages etc.
Sure compared with some parts of Europe our drink prices are expensive but in relative terms the heavily discounted prices in big supermarkets and German discounters represent cheap alcohol relative to what you pay in a smaller independent off license or pub.

We're the 2nd highest in the entire EU. Take a look at the prices in France in supermarkets, bars and restaurants.

Our drink is expensive full stop both on and off sales.

Prices of wine, beer, spirits in LIDL Germany are cheaper than prices in LIDL Ireland.
Are wages in Ireland far out of line with Germany?

We're not comparing Ireland just versus say Bulgaria.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Low priced alcohol is intended to get people (who would not otherwise drink,) to drink. The drink industry hope these people will go on to drink a lot, for the rest of their lives. It is a common marketing ploy.

Students tend to struggle financially but may go on to establish a career and become wealthy. If the drinks industry get their way, the students destined to become wealthy will do so with a taste for alcohol. To prevent this outcome, drink must be given a minimum price.

'rational economic man' thinking doesnt seem to work too well in reality, hence the failure of statements such as 'rational expectations'

realitykeeper wrote: »

Low priced alcohol is intended to get people (who would not otherwise drink,) to drink. The drink industry hope these people will go on to drink a lot, for the rest of their lives. It is a common marketing ploy.

Students tend to struggle financially but may go on to establish a career and become wealthy. If the drinks industry get their way, the students destined to become wealthy will do so with a taste for alcohol. To prevent this outcome, drink must be given a minimum price.

And that minimum just happens to be around the RRP of the main brands? How very convenient.

realitykeeper wrote: »

The government is not proposing a million euro pint, simple a minimum price per unit of alcohol. I doubt the minimum unit price will increase the viability of home brew kits by any significant extent.

you re trying to rationalize irrational human behavior, this simply cannot be done, we will always consume mind altering substances, no matter what barriers are put in place, price alterations will probably have little effect on these outcomes

weldoninhio wrote: »

It’s a stupid point. Raise the price of cars to €1m minimum. Deaths by car crashes will plummet. Is your name one of those ironic nicknames, like tiny got a huge guy??

You say the point is stupid yet you confirm it is correct. You see? Realitykeeper keeps it real.