So who's going to see the Pope?

jmayo wrote: »

I was channel surfing on saturday night and found it on BBC NI, then spotted it on RTE1/2, then found it on Sky News.
I kept switching back and over to check it was same translator.
Then watched for a bit to check out how the stadium looked.
Thankfully didn't come across the Daniel O'D part.

I haven't a fecking idea what he was talking about, but he had some family from somewhere on stage at one point.

Have to say Croker looked okish in the dark, but the corporate box section came across as too bright.
Overall I think it looked better for the opening of Special Olympics.

So do I count as one of the zealous viewers even if watched just about 15 minutes of it ?

I was talking to a relative who attended both this and the Phoenix Park one. He really enjoyed the Croker concert but thought the Park was a huge amount of hassle, walking for ages and he's not surprised many people chose to give it a miss on the day.

It seems everyone who was at Croke Park though had a good evening.

jmayo wrote: »

Ah feck it ...
Maybe it's that Samsung Smart TV.



Ehh I have only two reason to go to Croker.
One is match and the other is a concert.

Glad they had a good evening, but really there were a couple of elephants in the room or rather in the stadium.

One was they just had heterogeneous families and the other is that dragging our kids on stage or presumably talking about happy families is disingenuous in the extreme when the church and pope refuses to really acknowledge how they treated children and how they wrecked families.

I honestly don't know how Roman Catholics can sit in a stadium listening to plamás and patronising nonsense (frankly) from a pope with the image of a young child wearing a gold cross as a signal for other depraved priests in their heads. Or the shocking things involved in the reality of rape and abuse of children.
I cannot get that detail out of my head since I heard it. How supposedly 'good and christian' people can defeats me. It really does.

Edward M wrote: »

You'd be encouraging GA, SF and other former IRA members to come clean and name and let all authorities know of the sex abusers they had in their midst that they removed to live elsewhere in god knows where to live?

I have consistently done that.
Adams owned up to making a mistake in relation to his brother and testified against him. SF recognised their failings and were the first (Afaik) to put child protection measures in place. His brother is in jail, where he should be.

Are there any ongoing cases of abuse against the SF organisation? If there is, I call loudly for any information to be handed over.

I can understand human beings making judgement mistakes - I cannot understand what is happening in the Roman Catholic church though.

We got a pope, finally publicly stating that the abuse was wrong and abhorrent but zero on the Vatican's role in covering up and actively seeking to suppress.
We had a pope publicly pontificating on these matters while a story of huge magnitude was breaking in yet another country. And all the while ordinary RC's were playing happy clappy, we love everyone in Croker and the Phoenix PArk.

Edward M wrote: »

Sorry, I know of your posts regarding the defence of GA and SFs position on their issues with sexual abuse, and frankly your position and statements on here seem at odds with that.
Thanks for your response anyway.

If I ever condoned abuse or the cover up of abuse post a link to it.

Responding to somebody 'using abuse as a political stick' is a different thing. The same type of posters like to use selected victims of the conflict in the same sickening exploitative ways. But then, if you read those threads, you would know that.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was a fair question about my posting record.

But you are right, the thread isn't about me or SF or GA.

Attack the post not the poster. Attacking the poster is deflection and that’s what’s happening. Usually it occurs when someone knows that their position is completely wrong.

Edward M wrote: »

I see Francie has accepted the reasoning for my question. I have always found him to be an honourable and intelligent poster.
I think you misread my position, I don't believe the cc has any defence to offer that can justify their total discreditation with regards sex abuse within the organisation.
Francie is well known for his posts on any SF thread he appears on for seeing the best side of SF, though with caveats of criticising any rogue actions, he can usually see the reasoning behind them.
I just thought his posting on here on this thread, where he appears totally one sided in his view.
Just for any that may not know of this,
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-stance-needed-on-sex-abuse-within-ira-wftmv78b6?t=ie

My motivation for posting on SF threads, (seeing their best side,as you say) is to challenge a whole raft of posters here who criticise them from an anti Republican bias rather than as another political party.

I think there was sensationalism and political advantage taken over the abuse allegations within SF.
Remember, two Dail Deputies claiming there were 40 'victims' waiting to make cases?
That amounted to a hill of beans and as it has turned out, SF have, it seems about the national average of abusers within their ranks.
They were ahead of all other parties instigating child protection procedures and Adams addressed and admitted his failings in regard to his brother.
At the end of the day Maria Cahill's alleged rapist was waiting to defend himself (he didn't run) in a court too. As a democrat, I cannot ignore that fact.
Nobody has a clean record on this stuff in Ireland.

The Roman Catholic Church however...

Taytoland wrote: »

Making a mistake is dropping the jam jar or dropping a glass of milk, he covered up child sex abuse. Any other leader would have been destroyed utterly but Adam's has his fans so brainwashed they just believe anything he says. Luckily those of us outside the Sinn Fein cult challenge it.

There is no argument (from me anyhow) that GA did the wrong thing when caught in a difficult family situation.
If you are a reasonable person there is no denying that he admitted that and gave evidence against his brother who is rightly in jail.

There is no comparison with that and what went on and is going on in the church.
His political enemies made plenty of hay though.

Edward M wrote: »

To be fair, all our political party's must face scrutiny on their handling of the situation.
But to say there is no comparison is wrong too!
On scale it might be far smaller than the church scandal, but hiding or covering one case of abuse makes anyone who did it as culpable as the covering of many.

The case against Liam Adams is closed. Gerry has admitted his faults in it.

There is no comparison in that respect. I understand that people make mistakes but can make anmends.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is NOT a past tense issue. The latest story was only breaking when Ireland's RC's were literally playing happy families.

That's a technical point. Should we boycott AIB, Bank of Ireland and Permanent TSB for their role in the banking crisis? Leave the EU over the ECB and the burning the bondholders issue? Refuse to vote for Sinn Fein because of their past participation in paramilitary activities? I could make the claim that anyone who votes for Gerry Adams is a tacit apologist for the armed struggle, given that he claims to have had zero involvement and yet nobody believes him.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely they should be boycotted if they are STILL doing those things.

You were waving flags at a man who refused to deal with priests who branded children so they can be abused for others. And whole refuses to deal with cover up after cover up and whose officers tried to bury abuse claims.
You placed no onus on him as members of his organisation.
That is the disgrace.

I wasn't present at any of those events but I would defend the right of those who attended to attend. Anyone who was at the Papal events was at the Papal events, full stop. They don't need to explain or justify their presence to anyone.

It is you and others who are making the claim that they are apologists for child abuse or for the covering up of said abuse. The Taoiseach was at the Papal mass in Phoenix Park on Sunday among the crowd. There was no particular need for him to be present given that he had formally met the Pope the previous day at Dublin Castle. Is he a "disgrace" and an apologist for child abuse?

So people were trying to say that this pope is different, that he will change the church. Well so much for that idea.

“True, we are all sinners, we bishops,” he added. “He tries to uncover the sins, so they are visible in order to scandalize the people.

So the problem is not that bishops covered up abuse but that the public found out.

http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2018/09/11/pope-francis-the-great-accuser-is-trying-to-uncover-sins-to-cause-scandal/

....... wrote: »

He is a head of state. But not an elected one.

There are no democratic elections in the Vatican where all of the citizens vote.

The pope is selected by the College of Cardinals. There is no democracy.

Not only is it anti democratic but the conclave held to select him is a private secret affair - so who knows what goes on in there.

Before you go throwing stones at how the pope 'is' elected, neither our Taoiseach or President has to be elected where all of the citizens vote.

And our voting is done in secret too.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Nope, the devil is real and not a metaphor according to the pope

He may have a social conscience better than Ratzingers, but if he believes this stuff literally, I'm afraid I'll have to move him to my "Nice but nuts" box.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He may have a social conscience better than Ratzingers, but if he believes this stuff literally, I'm afraid I'll have to move him to my "Nice but nuts" box.

He is a jesuit. what do you expect?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

I have spoken to Jesuits who don't even believe in God, never mind a literal Devil.

well then you need to speak to better jesuits

DChancer wrote: »

So the OPW have finally put a figure on those attending the Gig in the park,just under 152,000 including all those taking part eg choirs etc.

Total cost of the visit to the taxpayer was about €160 per person attending the Park or Knock.

A fcuking joke, at our expense...