The Frederick St protest and reaction

20-09-2018 01:24PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Empathy for someone who has seven kids and no means of support other than 65k taxpayers money is quite hard to muster, in fairness.

Just curious what the 65k is based on?

My back-of -the envelope calculation would be that having 7 kids as a single parent generates total social welfare support (including child benefit) of €33,600.

Anyone who's ever had children would be daunted by trying to raise 2 of them on that income, let alone 7!

If you want to get rich, the most foolish thing you can do is be unemployed and have children.

Sweet.Science · 20-09-2018 01:26PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Just curious what the 65k is based on?

My back-of -the envelope calculation would be that having 7 kids as a single parent generates total social welfare support (including child benefit) of €33,600.

Anyone who's ever had children would be daunted by trying to raise 2 of them on that income, let alone 7!

If you want to get rich, the most foolish thing you can do is be unemployed and have children.

I wouldnt mind disposable income of €33600 a year

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 01:27PM

BBFAN wrote: »

:rolleyes:

A week? Yeah right. :rolleyes:

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Between my fiance and I, nearly 2 grand. And what do we get for it? 3 fifths of sweet **** all.

And that doesn't include what we contribute through VAT as well.

BBFAN wrote: »

Because I'm not an idiot and know how much gross you'd need to be earning to pay anything like 2k a week. It's approximately 225k a year.

The eyeroll is because it's either a blatant lie or you are earning that type of money between you. If you are you've very little to worry about in life and really have no right to be ranting.

If a couple are working to earn €225k pa between them, and but have over €100k of that taken for them to fund people who don’t work, then they most certainly have every right to complain about how badly it is being spent.

20-09-2018 01:30PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

I wouldnt mind disposable income of €33600 a year

Have seven kids, so!

There's a very good reason why most people don't have large families anymore - whether they're on welfare or not. And it has nothing to do with social responsibility, it's because they don't want to live in poverty!

Sweet.Science · 20-09-2018 01:32PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have seven kids, so!

There's a very good reason why most people don't have large families anymore - whether they're on welfare or not. And it has nothing to do with social responsibility, it's because they don't want to live in poverty!

So buying shoes for €300 is living in poverty ?

Having €33,000 disposable income is poverty ?

Having medical fees paid for is poverty ?

Where can i sign up and become poor ?

20-09-2018 01:35PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

So buying shoes for €300 is living in poverty ?

Having €33,000 disposable income is poverty ?

Having medical fees paid for is poverty ?

Where can i sign up and become poor ?

€33,000 might sound fine and dandy, but you keep ignoring the bit about raising seven kids on that income.

Everyone who has young kids gets their GP fees paid, until those children reach the age of six, regardless of household income, so that's not particularly relevant.

I have no interest in or knowledge about Margaret Cash's shoes, tbh.

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 01:54PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

€33,000 might sound fine and dandy, but you keep ignoring the bit about raising seven kids on that income.

Everyone who has young kids gets their GP fees paid, until those children reach the age of six, regardless of household income, so that's not particularly relevant.

I have no interest in or knowledge about Margaret Cash's shoes, tbh.

Only if you accept that €33k is correct - despite it being considerably lower than any estimate made earlier in the thread.

Single parents is 198 plus 31.80 per child.
That’s €21,871 pa on its own.
Jobseekers is €193 - so another €10,036 pa.
Child benefit is €140 per month - another €11,760.

That’s before looking at any other possible “entitlements” that she might be claiming.

You’re already downplaying by a min. €10k how much she’s getting.

Thats €43k a year tax-free, plus the expectation that all housing costs will be paid by the state as well.

No childcare costs either because she doesn’t want have to work to provide that €43k.

No wonder she can afford all the sessions with her buddies.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-09-2018 01:54PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

So buying shoes for €300 is living in poverty ?

Having €33,000 disposable income is poverty ?

Having medical fees paid for is poverty ?

Where can i sign up and become poor ?

Try Pavee Point or Ms E Fleming.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-09-2018 01:55PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Only if you accept that €33k is correct - despite it being considerably lower than any estimate made earlier in the thread.

Single parents is 198 plus 31.80 per child.
That’s €21,871 pa on its own.
Jobseekers is €193 - so another €10,036 pa.
Child benefit is €140 per month - another €11,760.

That’s before looking at any other possible “entitlements” that she might be claiming.

You’re already downplaying by a min. €10k how much she’s getting.

Thats €43k a year tax-free, plus the expectation that all housing costs will be paid by the state as well.

No childcare costs either because she doesn’t want have to work to provide that €43k.

No wonder she can afford all the sessions with her buddies.

+1

And after 30 years of graft I don't quite earn 43k GROSS.

Yeah she's a poor downtrodden unfortunate and no mistake.

There really are some gullible people around.

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 01:58PM

.

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 01:59PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

+1

And after 30 years of graft I don't quite earn 43k GROSS.

Yeah she's a poor downtrodden unfortunate and no mistake.

There really are some gullible people around.

Should have spent your younger years on your back and knocked out a few kids (in between trips down the country to not break into people’s homes of course).

Carlos Orange · 20-09-2018 02:02PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Single parents is 198 plus 31.80 per child.
That’s €21,871 pa on its own.
Jobseekers is €193 - so another €10,036 pa.
Child benefit is €140 per month - another €11,760.

You also get €31.80 per child per week with jobseekers but maybe you can't get the job seekers €31.80 and the €31.80 single parents at the same time. They should really have an entitlement calculator to keep things simple.

BBFAN · 20-09-2018 02:02PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

So buying shoes for €300 is living in poverty ?

Having €33,000 disposable income is poverty ?

Having medical fees paid for is poverty ?

Where can i sign up and become poor ?

Down in your local social welfare office.

BBFAN · 20-09-2018 02:04PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Only if you accept that €33k is correct - despite it being considerably lower than any estimate made earlier in the thread.

Single parents is 198 plus 31.80 per child.
That’s €21,871 pa on its own.
Jobseekers is €193 - so another €10,036 pa.
Child benefit is €140 per month - another €11,760.

That’s before looking at any other possible “entitlements” that she might be claiming.

You’re already downplaying by a min. €10k how much she’s getting.

Thats €43k a year tax-free, plus the expectation that all housing costs will be paid by the state as well.

No childcare costs either because she doesn’t want have to work to provide that €43k.

No wonder she can afford all the sessions with her buddies.

What makes you think that someone gets single parents allowance and jobseekers?

NIMAN · 20-09-2018 02:05PM

=A Tyrant Named Miltiades!;108135165g child benefit) of €33,600.

Anyone who's ever had children would be daunted by trying to raise 2 of them on that income, let alone 7!

I have 3 young kids, and yes its very hard work at times, but thats the reason I wouldn't have 7. It would kill me.

But you see me and the OH decided NOT to have any more for that reason. Was Ms Cash held down and impregnated? No-one forced her to have 3, or 5, or 7?

If she is living on limited income, did she ever think "I think maybe I should stop having kids now?"

And she's only 28.....I would have a bet with you that she will hit the 10 mark before the menopause.

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 02:05PM

BBFAN wrote: »

What makes you think that someone gets single parents allowance and jobseekers?

Are you saying it’s not possible to be a single parent and seek a job?

BBFAN · 20-09-2018 02:06PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Are you saying it’s not possible to be a single parent and seek a job?

No, simply saying you don't get paid both allowances at the same time.

20-09-2018 02:09PM

blackwhite wrote: »

Only if you accept that €33k is correct - despite it being considerably lower than any estimate made earlier in the thread.

Single parents is 198 plus 31.80 per child.
That’s €21,871 pa on its own.
Jobseekers is €193 - so another €10,036 pa.
Child benefit is €140 per month - another €11,760.

That’s before looking at any other possible “entitlements” that she might be claiming.

You’re already downplaying by a min. €10k how much she’s getting.

Thats €43k a year tax-free, plus the expectation that all housing costs will be paid by the state as well.

I'm not downplaying anything, just not aware of what 'single parents' is -- is that the OPFP?

If so, that is a taxable payment, and it may also affect an applicant's eligibility for the full jobseeker's payment, so I suspect your figure may be exaggerated.

edit: poster above has clarified this.

blackwhite · 20-09-2018 02:09PM

BBFAN wrote: »

No, simply saying you don't get paid both allowances at the same time.

So she only gets a minimum of €34k per year tax free? Before any other allowances or claims?

No wonder she needs to involve herself with gangs carrying out rural robberies then :rolleyes:

Deebles McBeebles · 20-09-2018 02:09PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have seven kids, so!

There's a very good reason why most people don't have large families anymore - whether they're on welfare or not. And it has nothing to do with social responsibility, it's because they don't want to live in poverty!

Should those in poverty (and with apparently no intention to work to get out of it) not be socially responsible enough to keep the amount of kids they have to a minimum? Or not have any if they just can't afford it.

Her sponging footprint will multiply by 7 in the next generation and so on. And before anyone says how do I know they will be spongers, its bred into them. Their grandfather won't have worked a day in his life either.

20-09-2018 02:14PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Should those in poverty (and with apparently no intention to work to get out of it) not be socially responsible enough to keep the amount of kids they have to a minimum? Or not have any if they just can't afford it.

Her sponging footprint will multiply by 7 in the next generation and so on. And before anyone says how do I know they will be spongers, its bred into them. Their grandfather won't have worked a day in his life either.

You clearly know it all already Deebles, and have an ability to peer into the future, I'm sure there's no point in asking me any questions. I'm just saying I admire the woman's ability to make a convincing speech.

sexmag · 20-09-2018 02:24PM

The way the housing worked was it was a point system and the people with the most points get bumped up on the priority list, 1 point per kid,point per sex of children as you cant have boys and girls in the same room, point for disabilities, point for joblessness and so on and so on,meaning a family with 2 boys and a girl need a 3 bedroom as box room will be find for the girl, only problem with Ms.Cash is she priced her self out of the market with 7 kids being boys and girls, they realistically need a 4 bed house and they are very very rare to come by anywhere but in dublin hardly a chance, she can stand outside the dail with her megaphone but until they build her a house she has very little chance of getting what she wants

Deebles McBeebles · 20-09-2018 02:35PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You clearly know it all already Deebles, and have an ability to peer into the future, I'm sure there's no point in asking me any questions. I'm just saying I admire the woman's ability to make a convincing speech.

I just see things logically and realistically, that's all, no magic powers required.

What you actually said (in a separate thread) was "Margaret Cash for President, anyone?" but given that you're already stepping away from that statement I guess you know its ridiculous.

20-09-2018 02:41PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I just see things logically and realistically, that's all, no magic powers required.

What you actually said (in a separate thread) was "Margaret Cash for President, anyone?" but given that you're already stepping away from that statement I guess you know its ridiculous.

Of course I'm not suggesting she run for president ffs!

I'm simply saying she possesses an ability to deliver a good speech. And that I reckon she could be an effective politician.

You claim to be logical and realistic, but writing-off a group of little children as 'spongers for life' strikes me as a little vindictive; it has little to do with logic.

People are losing the run of themselves when they come out with stuff like that. Is it really necessary to have a go at this woman's children, like?

Deebles McBeebles · 20-09-2018 02:48PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course I'm not suggesting she run for president ffs!

So just to get a rise out of people, fair enough.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm simply saying she possesses an ability to deliver a good speech. And that I reckon she could be an effective politician.

She thinks only of herself so would be a cracking politician, absolutely.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You claim to be logical and realistic, but writing-off a group of little children as 'spongers for life' strikes me as a little vindictive; it has little to do with logic.

That's the realism bit.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

People are losing the run of themselves when they come out with stuff like that. Is it really necessary to have a go at this woman's children, like?

I'm having a go at her and the system that allows her and her ilk. I feel sorry for the kids that their lives will be a continuation of hers.

PlaneSpeeking · 20-09-2018 02:50PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course I'm not suggesting she run for president ffs!

I'm simply saying she possesses an ability to deliver a good speech. And that I reckon she could be an effective politician.

You claim to be logical and realistic, but writing-off a group of little children as 'spongers for life' strikes me as a little vindictive; it has little to do with logic.

People are losing the run of themselves when they come out with stuff like that. Is it really necessary to have a go at this woman's children, like?

Reversing so much you should be beeping for safety.

That was a great speech in fairness. She should stand for election, I'd vote for her.

She seems very driven, very energetic, articulate and she's standing up for the little guy.

Those are pretty good traits in a politician, in my book. You don't have to like her to think she'd be an effective politician.

In fairness to her, not many politicians could deliver a speech like that even with notes. she reminds me of a young, female Michael D!

Margaret Cash for President, anyone?

And don't say you were sarcastic, you were asked outright if you were joking and said "not at all".

20-09-2018 02:53PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

And don't say you were sarcastic, you were asked outright if you were joking and said "not at all".

Ah here, believe that i was being serious about the Presidency if you prefer to.

I'm going to bow out of this thread. Not fair of me to be taking all the attention away from the sexual and criminal innuendo against Margaret Cash, and the personal attacks on her kids.

Stay classy.

hatrickpatrick · 20-09-2018 04:40PM

The funny thing is, everyone's talking about the €30k figure here - absolutely this should be considered an incredibly decent annual income and up until recently it would have been, but when average rents are €1,304 per month (June figures, most recent available), that means you're spending roughly half of that per annum on rent. So you've €15k left and that still has to cover electricity, heating, transport (public or private, ridiculously expensive in Ireland either way), groceries (more expensive in Ireland than in most EU countries - and exponentially more expensive in Dublin than anywhere else in the country) etc.

It's absolutely ridiculous that so many people are stating that the extortionate cost of living in Ireland and particularly in Dublin (not just rents, essentials across the board) is not a problem which should be addressed by democratic public policy. Sure, "muh free markets" and all that but the objective of democratic government policy should be to maximise quality of life for as many members of the population as possible. Allowing the cost of living to skyrocket like this and not doing anything to bring it down because "tough sh!t, that's capitalism for you" is a betrayal of democratic values - and will inevitably lead to social unrest over time. It's a foregone conclusion. What we've had in the West since the advent of neoliberalism is what's called stagflation - prices increase, but average income either increases too slowly to match it, or doesn't increase at all. The inevitable mathematical conclusion is a reduction in average quality of life.

Anyone who thinks that this is not a matter for government to address is either incredibly misguided, or an ideological nihilist on some level (nothing really matters, people don't matter, society doesn't matter, individual happiness doesn't matter). Being the latter is fine - you're free to hold any view you feel like in a democracy, after all - but IMO it's totally disingenuous for anyone to pretend that they genuinely feel that this is the best thing for society. If you don't care one way or another then that's absolutely fine, but talking as if this is somehow just or good comes across as deliberately disingenuous.

It's easily documented throughout history that any society which allows stagflation of this kind to continue unchecked eventually faces some form of social unrest of upheaval. Recent events in the UK and US are obvious examples. So if people genuinely believe in this cold, clinical attitude to how society should work, I'd advise bracing for trouble down the line.

sexmag · 20-09-2018 04:51PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The funny thing is, everyone's talking about the €30k figure here - absolutely this should be considered an incredibly decent annual income and up until recently it would have been, but when average rents are €1,304 per month (June figures, most recent available), that means you're spending roughly half of that per annum on rent. So you've €15k left and that still has to cover electricity, heating, transport (public or private, ridiculously expensive in Ireland either way), groceries (more expensive in Ireland than in most EU countries - and exponentially more expensive in Dublin than anywhere else in the country) etc.

It's absolutely ridiculous that so many people are stating that the extortionate cost of living in Ireland and particularly in Dublin (not just rents, essentials across the board) is not a problem which should be addressed by democratic public policy. Sure, "muh free markets" and all that but the objective of democratic government policy should be to maximise quality of life for as many members of the population as possible. Allowing the cost of living to skyrocket like this and not doing anything to bring it down because "tough sh!t, that's capitalism for you" is a betrayal of democratic values - and will inevitably lead to social unrest over time. It's a foregone conclusion. What we've had in the West since the advent of neoliberalism is what's called stagflation - prices increase, but average income either increases too slowly to match it, or doesn't increase at all. The inevitable mathematical conclusion is a reduction in average quality of life.

Anyone who thinks that this is not a matter for government to address is either incredibly misguided, or an ideological nihilist on some level (nothing really matters, people don't matter, society doesn't matter, individual happiness doesn't matter). Being the latter is fine - you're free to hold any view you feel like in a democracy, after all - but IMO it's totally disingenuous for anyone to pretend that they genuinely feel that this is the best thing for society. If you don't care one way or another then that's absolutely fine, but talking as if this is somehow just or good comes across as deliberately disingenuous.

It's easily documented throughout history that any society which allows stagflation of this kind to continue unchecked eventually faces some form of social unrest of upheaval. Recent events in the UK and US are obvious examples. So if people genuinely believe in this cold, clinical attitude to how society should work, I'd advise bracing for trouble down the line.

Well you seem to forget that in Me. Cashs case she gets rent allowance so her annual rental outgoings might be 2400 at a push,leaving her with 28k for all other expenses you have listed off.

So your example shows how the working class are being screwed and the people on social welfare are benefiting

Brendan Bendar · 20-09-2018 05:03PM

sexmag wrote: »

Well you seem to forget that in Me. Cashs case she gets rent allowance so her annual rental outgoings might be 2400 at a push,leaving her with 28k for all other expenses you have listed off.

So your example shows how the working class are being screwed and the people on social welfare are benefiting

Another thing to remember is the ‘gunthering’ that is going on.

That is,tipping around doing ‘this and that’ all cash in hand, no records, no vat, no names no pack drill .

Country is riven with that kind of operation, make no mistake about it.

Middle Ireland needs to be vigilant otherwise they will end up sledding up and down the commuter routes to support the scobies,whilst working themselves into an early grave.

Won’t happen.

The Frederick St protest and reaction

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