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Investigation into 4000% increase in girls unhappy with their gender.

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Organisations like mermaids who actively campaign for children to be allowed to transition have huge influence in UK schools for some reason.

    If you look at some of material kids in the UK are being taught by these groups you'll see that it is strictly enforcing gender stereotypes. Girls = feminine, caring, delicate. Boys = strong, assertive etc. They are being told that if they don't meet these stereotypes then perhaps they are "really" the opposite gender. It's not surprising that more children who don't fit those are thinking they are transgender and of course , on the advice of these groups we must allow them to start the process.

    In reality, the vast majority of "transgender" kids are not in fact transgender. They usually turn out to be gender non conforming or gay. This is a fact that every study has shown. It's beyond sinister that groups are advocating kids being put on the path to medical transistion and a lifetime of surgical and hormonal interventions and you'd have to wonder who is funding this push. It certainly is an amazing result for pharma companies anyway. Even more sinister is that schools in some areas have taken on the recommendations that parents do not need to be informed if their child is starting to socially transition at school.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,361 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Sure kids have always felt like questioning their place in society, but much more from the ears up type of thing before, I would have thought, rather than this fecken obsession with genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics etc.

    Also some respondents here have said how they were tomboys and hated that girly stuff and how bad this would have been if they were kids. But there is another kind of kid who would be not interested. I was always feminine as a child, reserved, shy etc but absolutely not a tomboy. I had zero interest in gender or sex until practically adulthood, the body was just how I travelled around the place. So there are other kinds of girls who are not tomboys, but who could not possibly fit into the present highly genderised culture comfortably. Ironically this specific genderising of the childhood culture is coming from the very ideology that says gender is fluid.


    I think that can’t be emphasised enough tbh, that there are by far and away the vast majority of children who aren’t at all interested in sex and sexuality or gender identity or a multitude of other social and political ideologies. I think again that social media and indeed the mainstream media is magnifying exponentially the actual influence of these phenomena in wider society beyond any influence it actually has in reality.

    Maybe the culture overall has become hyper-sexualised for children and that is what we did not notice creeping up on us? That's quite worrying.

    (Sorry for vagueness. I know I am not expressing myself well. Now that the rage has gone off me hehe)


    I genuinely don’t think society and culture have become any more sexualised than they were, or indeed weren’t already. I just think as society becomes more educated in certain ways, it’s actually the type of education they receive is more important, and naturally there are going to be all sorts of influences competing to educate children in the belief that getting to them young is going to have them always hold to that belief. Such arguments were never particularly well thought out if we take religion as an example of just one ideology. I think one of the biggest reasons why we might be given the impression that hyper-sexualisation has become more obvious and we didn’t notice it was because how could we, when we were children ourselves at the time and this stuff was mainly confined to third level institutions as far back as the institution of third level institutions, or establishments of higher education. I suppose particularly in the era of the ‘60s and ‘70s, and it’s enjoying something of a revival now thanks to being able to be disseminated faster via the internet.

    I don’t think you’re being vague at all, I completely get where you’re coming from, but can it truly be said that for example Nicki Minaj’s “Barbie Dreams” is actually any worse than Elvis’ hip thrusting his way through the Bible Belt to become something of a worldwide phenomenon? The point I’m making is that for their time, both are arguably huge cultural influences on children, and both are (or in Elvis’ case was) roundly condemned as being a bad influence on children and corrupting children’s minds, but most children actually turned out ok as adults, as will the current generation.

    Perspective really, is what I’m saying, it’s just as important to keep things in perspective as it is to protect children, and set boundaries for them rather than expect society should have to change to suit us any more than society is likely to change to suit people who want to appear to be so open minded that their brains have fallen out, because that’s unlikely to happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,854 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Not sure I get your meaning. But it was in response to posters mentioning the highly genderised outfits available for kids - which is true. Also toys past times etc. Heck, you could even get bra and knicker twin sets for toddlers a couple of years ago in Penneys. Little girls are wearing lipstick and blusher to their First Holy Communions and Irish Dancing regattas. Hair, beauty, the whole shebang, it's all much more in the face of children. I cannot even manage high heels yet, so I am really glad I did not have to be glam when still a child. And don't even start about young teens.

    I was thinking more teenagers and adults, and more general pressures

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Do you know, One Eyed Jack, it's not just (for me anyways) that there is a problem going on in the recesses of social media, it's the interface between that ethereal world and the real live flesh and blood world when the dodgy material in there meets an ideologically indoctrinated PC culture that can't or won't wave the stop sign or have cop on. It's not just regarding childhood gender dysphoria, it's there in pornified sex, and hyped up promiscuity that does no ones head any good, especially kids.

    Sure kids have always felt like questioning their place in society, but much more from the ears up type of thing before, I would have thought, rather than this fecken obsession with genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics etc.

    Also some respondents here have said how they were tomboys and hated that girly stuff and how bad this would have been if they were kids. But there is another kind of kid who would be not interested. I was always feminine as a child, reserved, shy etc but absolutely not a tomboy. I had zero interest in gender or sex until practically adulthood, the body was just how I travelled around the place. So there are other kinds of girls who are not tomboys, but who could not possibly fit into the present highly genderised culture comfortably. Ironically this specific genderising of the childhood culture is coming from the very ideology that says gender is fluid.
    Maybe the culture overall has become hyper-sexualised for children and that is what we did not notice creeping up on us? That's quite worrying.

    (Sorry for vagueness. I know I am not expressing myself well. Now that the rage has gone off me hehe)

    I'll tell you what absolutely sickens me - in this supposed free age, stereotypes are slavishy adhered to, even when wrong.

    I'm a woman, aside from not being able to pee where I want I'm generally fine with that.

    I don't meet most stereotypes of women though - love my sport, wear trousers, hate make up, etc etc etc - but girls now are feeling (and being encouraged) that they must be trans if they feel "like boys".

    It's not going to end well for our kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    I'm a woman, aside from not being able to pee where I want I'm generally fine with that.

    Believe it or not that's generally frowned upon for men as well.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Not arsed reading the source or any posts. I assume it was a low number, and it was always something people dealt with by themselves, but as it became more acceptable, more people seeked advice and treatment.

    It would be lunacy to investigate some explosion of homosexuality for the same reasons.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 636 ✭✭✭7aubzxk43m2sni


    Not arsed reading the source or any posts. I assume it was a low number, and it was always something people dealt with by themselves, but as it became more acceptable, more people seeked advice and treatment.

    It would be lunacy to investigate some explosion of homosexuality for the same reasons.

    Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups.

    It's not really a valid comparison to homosexuality, since exploring your sexuality doesn't involve radically altering your body.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Assumption is the mother of all f*ck ups.

    It's not really a valid comparison to homosexuality, since exploring your sexuality doesn't involve radically altering your body.

    It is a valid comparison. Both taboo things that people hid about themselves. Homosexuality became socially acceptable, and then so did transexuality.

    If that isn't the whole reason, then enlighten me on how much of a percentage the above would account for? Since saying 0% would obviously be retarded.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    It is a valid comparison. Both taboo things that people hid about themselves. Homosexuality became socially acceptable, and then so did transexuality.

    If that isn't the whole reason, then enlighten me on how much of a percentage the above would account for? Since saying 0% would obviously be retarded.

    Well, first of all I don't know why you bother commenting in a thread where you admit to not bothering to read the premise, but on your homosexuality point you should perhaps do a little research on homeosexual attitudes towards transgenderism (by the way, transsexual is not cool to say anymore, it's awkward because it points to the truth that sexual biology cannot be changed). There is considerable concern among many homosexual activists that transgenderism is an extreme form of conversion therapy and that if not this, then it is still problematic because many children who identify now as trans are actually gay, which is revealed in the stats among those very many young adults who desist.


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  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Well, first of all I don't know why you bother commenting in a thread where you admit to not bothering to read the premise, but on your homosexuality point you should perhaps do a little research on homeosexual attitudes towards transgenderism (by the way, transsexual is not cool to say anymore, it's awkward because it points to the truth that sexual biology cannot be changed). There is considerable concern among many homosexual activists that transgenderism is an extreme form of conversion therapy and that if not this, then it is still problematic because many children who identify now as trans are actually gay, which is revealed in the stats among those very many young adults who desist.

    I've read the premise now and the original figure is so low, it could only be explained with my reasoning above. 40 girls in 2009-2010 in a country the size of the UK is, practically speaking, zero.

    I take you're going to accept that 40 girls a year on average is the true number of cases, since that's what it used to be, and everything over that is societal hysteria and the world falling apart. If that's the case, you should perhaps do a little research on statistics and how they can be manipulated.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,573 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I've read the premise now and the original figure is so low, it could only be explained with my reasoning above. 40 girls in 2009-2010 in a country the size of the UK is, practically speaking, zero.

    I take you're going to accept that 40 girls a year on average is the true number of cases, since that's what it used to be, and everything over that is societal hysteria and the world falling apart. If that's the case, you should perhaps do a little research on statistics and how they can be manipulated.


    I said all that (almost word for word as well) much earlier in the thread. I hope you get a more nuanced response than i did.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    I've read the premise now and the original figure is so low, it could only be explained with my reasoning above. 40 girls in 2009-2010 in a country the size of the UK is, practically speaking, zero.

    I take you're going to accept that 40 girls a year on average is the true number of cases, since that's what it used to be, and everything over that is societal hysteria and the world falling apart. If that's the case, you should perhaps do a little research on statistics and how they can be manipulated.

    You know Ads, feeling hatred for one's body based solely on its sex or feeling that you are born in the wrong body, to the extent that you would wish to completely alter that body, is actually quite a strong and unusual emotion. It is so highly destructive to the whole psyche,and I imagine it would be extremely maladaptive evolutionarily speaking in terms of being a human being. It is in essence an extraordinary state of affairs, though I agree that it possibly does exist to an extreme degree that requires medical intervention in rare cases. So 40 per annum seems like a reasonable number actually in the UK population, given that one is speaking of such a weighty issue.
    In any event even if it was increasing so exponentially upon valid grounds I think that we should consider as a society first of all why that is, exactly, and second of all if we could possibly respond to that situation with the very least amount of catastrophic intervention possible, in all cases. First do no harm etc.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I said all that (almost word for word as well) much earlier in the thread. I hope you get a more nuanced response than i did.

    I'm just basing it on my own experience of teaching in Vietnam, a country where kids will identify as whatever they like because no one cares, and it's certainly not the parents or some such influencing them.

    From a total of around 200 grade 12 students this year, I've two girls and one boy, that I know of, who identify as or claim to be transgender. One's been saying it since I taught her in grade 6. Those are closer to the real numbers than 40 girls in an entire country, which is so beyond believability, it's amazing anyone could see it as anything but a severe lack of reporting.

    Sure, there is some unnecessary influence going on from parents, but a "whopping 4000%" increase is just changing times.

    Malayalam wrote: »
    You know Ads, feeling hatred for one's body based solely on its sex or feeling that you are born in the wrong body, to the extent that you would wish to completely alter that body, is actually quite a strong and unusual emotion. It is so highly destructive to the whole psyche,and I imagine it would be extremely maladaptive evolutionarily speaking in terms of being a human being. It is in essence an extraordinary state of affairs, though I agree that it possibly does exist to an extreme degree that requires medical intervention in rare cases. So 40 per annum seems like a reasonable number actually in the UK population, given that one is speaking of such a weighty issue.
    In any event even if it was increasing so exponentially upon valid grounds I think that we should consider as a society first of all why that is, exactly, and second of all if we could possibly respond to that situation with the very least amount of catastrophic intervention possible, in all cases. First do no harm etc.

    You're dumb as hell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam



    You're dumb as hell.

    Nice one.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Nice one.

    You admitted to believing the old numbers are the real ones, with the new ones being some anomaly that society needs to fix.

    It's been pointed out that societal acceptance has an obvious role to play here, you know, the whole "my parents won't disown me if I tell them" thing.


    If you still want to argue that that plays no role and the old number is true, like you said two posts ago, you are and deserve to be called dumb.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    You admitted to believing the old numbers are the real ones, with the new ones being some anomaly that society needs to fix.

    It's been pointed out that societal acceptance has an obvious role to play here, you know, the whole "my parents won't disown me if I tell them" thing.


    If you still want to argue that that plays no role and the old number is true, like you said two posts ago, you are and deserve to be called dumb.

    yeah, well you're not actually supposed to engage in ad hominen here for your kicks, or because you had a wild weekend, but whatever, it means I respect your view point all the less.

    I do not know what would be a valid base number. Neither do you. Research shows a huge increase that very much concerns experts in the field, not just dumbos like me. Look at various pictures of mastectomies in young teenagers and mutilated arms and thighs in young adults, check out research on the long term effects of Lupron, and then tell me if you feel that this society is dealing well with gender dysphoria in children and young adults. Personally I think we could deal a lot more creatively and compassionately with people who are suffering from such distress. My first line of treatment would be the mind, the thoughts, the psyche, the source of the distress, rather than heaping pain upon pain with surgery and chemicals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Malayalam wrote: »
    yeah, well you're not actually supposed to engage in ad hominen here for your kicks, or because you had a wild weekend, but whatever, it means I respect your view point all the less.

    I do not know what would be a valid base number. Neither do you. Research shows a huge increase that very much concerns experts in the field, not just dumbos like me. Look at various pictures of mastectomies in young teenagers and mutilated arms and thighs in young adults, check out research on the long term effects of Lupron, and then tell me if you feel that this society is dealing well with gender dysphoria in children and young adults. Personally I think we could deal a lot more creatively and compassionately with people who are suffering from such distress. My first line of treatment would be the mind, the thoughts, the psyche, the source of the distress, rather than heaping pain upon pain with surgery and chemicals.


    You realise that psychological assesments take place before surgery etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You realise that psychological assesments take place before surgery etc?

    You realise hormones are often prescribed after one visit?


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Malayalam wrote: »
    yeah, well you're not actually supposed to engage in ad hominen here for your kicks, or because you had a wild weekend, but whatever, it means I respect your view point all the less.

    I'm not engaging in ad hominems. I'm engaging in plain old insults. An ad hominem is when I say "You are dumb, therefore your point is wrong." I'm saying "Your point is wrong, therefore you are dumb."
    Malayalam wrote: »
    I do not know what would be a valid base number. Neither do you. Research shows a huge increase that very much concerns experts in the field, not just dumbos like me. Look at various pictures of mastectomies in young teenagers and mutilated arms and thighs in young adults, check out research on the long term effects of Lupron, and then tell me if you feel that this society is dealing well with gender dysphoria in children and young adults. Personally I think we could deal a lot more creatively and compassionately with people who are suffering from such distress. My first line of treatment would be the mind, the thoughts, the psyche, the source of the distress, rather than heaping pain upon pain with surgery and chemicals.

    This emotive nonsense does not help in a statistical argument. It's what you filled your last one with and is what prompted my response.

    I'm off to bed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    I'm not engaging in ad hominems. I'm engaging in plain old insults. An ad hominem is when I say "You are dumb, therefore your point is wrong." I'm saying "Your point is wrong, therefore you are dumb."



    This emotive nonsense does not help in a statistical argument. It's what you filled your last one with and is what prompted my response.

    I'm off to bed.

    Good man. Off ya go.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Malayalam wrote: »
    You realise hormones are often prescribed after one visit?




    You've some source for that.......?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You've some source for that.......?

    I read widely about this subject and follow commentary about it on social media platforms. Prescription after one visit is commonly reported.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Malayalam wrote: »
    I read widely about this subject and follow commentary about it on social media platforms. Prescription after one visit is commonly reported.


    So you've claimed. Do you have a source for that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You realise that psychological assesments take place before surgery etc?

    It doesn't matter how many assessments are performed , a child should never be able to consent to such life altering, unnecessary surgery and pharmaceutical interventions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    It doesn't matter how many assessments are performed , a child should never be able to consent to such life altering, unnecessary surgery and pharmaceutical interventions.

    Thanks ceadaoin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Thanks ceadaoin.


    Any luck finding a source for that claim yet?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Any luck finding a source for that claim yet?

    Lisa Marchiano works with a lot of transitioning people.
    There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that young people are receiving hormone prescriptions without careful assessment. In the study of 200 detransitioned women, 65% of them responded that they had received no therapy before starting hormones.
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804

    Going to an official source, the NHS will give hormones at second meeting.
    https://gic.nhs.uk/appointments/first-appointment/

    Many children are self treating with hormones purchased online, ie with no assessment or meeting
    Some teenagers denied hormones buy them off the internet, which experts say is deeply concerning. “It’s really common, certainly with the older teens,” said Green. “A lot of them self-medicate because they just can’t wait and we know it’s pretty much endemic. It’s not illegal, but it’s not recommended.”
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk

    Google it yourself if you want anymore.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    By the way this is the level of narcissism and victimhood being encouraged in young people...

    DnVD0xkXoAECNJR.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,935 ✭✭✭eyerer


    Penis envy and Freud was right all along?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    Malayalam wrote: »
    By the way this is the level of narcissism and victimhood being encouraged in young people...

    maybe he/she/they should read up on what the definition of cosmetic is
    cosmetic

    adjective
    1.relating to treatment intended to restore or improve a person's appearance.
    "cosmetic surgery" synonyms: beautifying, improving, non-medical; More
    2.affecting only the appearance of something rather than its substance.
    "the reform package was merely a cosmetic exercise"
    synonyms: superficial, surface, skin-deep, outward, exterior, external
    "alterations to the original building have been largely cosmetic"


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Lisa Marchiano works with a lot of transitioning people.



    And refers to anecdotal evidence. Very reassuring.


    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804
    Malayalam wrote: »
    Going to an official source, the NHS will give hormones at second meeting.
    https://gic.nhs.uk/appointments/first-appointment/



    ...after an assesment has been made. An assesment they would presumably have to be referred for.


    Malayalam wrote: »
    Many children are self treating with hormones purchased online, ie with no assessment or meeting


    An illicit practice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Odhinn wrote: »
    And refers to anecdotal evidence. Very reassuring.


    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804
    [/URL]


    ...after an assesment has been made. An assesment they would presumably have to be referred for.






    An illicit practice.

    The puberty blocker which is used off label in kids has been linked to numerous long term health problems


    https://www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

    Also, if the person never goes through puberty and is then placed on cross sex hormones, they will be permanently infertile and never grow to their full potential physically, and the effects on brain development are unknown.

    Given that 60-90% of trans identified children grow up to be happy with their birth sex and not trans, how is it ethical that a child should be able to consent to this? We don't allow children to consent to various things for a reason. Why is this being treated so differently?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,401 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Also, this is the type of comments and abuse that a mother posting on Twitter about adopting the "watchful waiting" approach got. As it turns out this was the right thing to do as her daughter no longer identifies as trans. Luckily for her she can progress and develop normally due to not being placed on dangerous medication
    The changes your child will experience in puberty are permanent. Blockers are only there to bide time. I hope your kid survives your abuse and doesn't off themselves, they deserve better. But when they stop talking to you, you'll deserve it."

    "I really hope your kid doesn’t commit suicide as a teenager. I hope they cut you out of their life and bloom into an amazing adult."

    "You’re the problem here. Your kid will hate you if they don’t commit Suicide first."

    "Because your bigotry about being trans is far more important than your child's wellbeing and happiness. How dare you call your child ' your baby' when you are denying their agency and true self. How about supporting, instead of controlling your child?"

    This is a form of online grooming happening to these kids by people like those quoted and goes some way towards explaining the large increase IMO.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,136 ✭✭✭✭How Soon Is Now


    I'm surprised the thread has gotten this far without someone coming in telling everyone how wrong they are!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Malayalam wrote: »
    By the way this is the level of narcissism and victimhood being encouraged in young people...

    DnVD0xkXoAECNJR.jpg

    That’s mad. It’s standard for there to be a hierarchy of surgeries and it doesn’t have to be a cosmetic surgery to be put off. I had surgery that I really needed for medical reasons put off a few times because more pressing cases presented. Cancer surgery is top of the heap because time is truly of the essence. Yes, transitioning folk might have mental distress but when tumours shed hundreds of thousands of cells a day, it’s easy to see why cancer surgery comes first. Every day is a day closer to potential spread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,099 ✭✭✭deirdremf


    Malayalam wrote: »
    The Minister for Equality in Britain, Penny Mordaunt, who surely as much as anybody would have sympathy for Trans peoples, given that it's her job to do so, has opened an urgent investigation into why there has been such a phenomenal increase in girls seeking gender reassignment - a whopping 4000 - 4500% increase in less than 8 years.
    I'd ask two questions before starting a thread like this
    1 - what the overall numbers were at the start, and what they are now
    2 - what are the relevant numbers for boys wanting to go the other way?


    Get a bit of context, and then start the discussion.
    Ot maybe your situation is that you don't like this at all, under any circumstances?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,987 ✭✭✭JohnMc1


    Future generations will come with neither male or female body parts they will be purchased as "addons" when the person decides what they wanna be!

    And appropriate hormones will be downloadable content.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭Malayalam


    deirdremf wrote: »
    I'd ask two questions before starting a thread like this
    1 - what the overall numbers were at the start, and what they are now
    2 - what are the relevant numbers for boys wanting to go the other way?


    Get a bit of context, and then start the discussion.
    Ot maybe your situation is that you don't like this at all, under any circumstances?

    The links I posted state the numbers.
    Boys have increased by about 1250% in the same time period. The numbers are available, just google. I cannot fill you in on all the details.

    Even the fact that the government spokesperson when commenting on the investigation uses the term ''Assigned female at birth'' is a cause for concern. This is an ideologically loaded phrase that has not been agreed upon by the members of society - it has been foisted unilaterally on people. A newborn is either female, male or very occasionally intersex at birth. They are not ''assigned'' a hypothetical or tentative gender. This is nonsense, in the original sense of that word.

    I have plenty of context, and have given some here and much more in other threads, but look around at where you are, and at the discussions trending on the front page of boards, especially AH - is deep context a requirement you demand before people are posting generally or just with respect to certain issues?

    Here's a bit more context - If young girls experiencing gender dysphoria and being referred to clinics has increased by 4000 - 4500% in 8 years is the healthy and expected consequence of the normalisation of the issue so that they are comfortable to come forward, then where are the corresponding increases one would expect to see under those same circumstances among all other demographics - young adults, the middle-aged, the elderly? Such increases are not emerging in the statistics - instead the evidence points to a social contagion among children and young teens such as happens with eating disorders for example. Research also tracks a concomitance of mental health issues in up to two thirds of these cases. ADHD seems to be the largest comorbidity.

    A Finnish study in 2015 was among the first to call attention to the unusual statistics
    The number of referrals exceeded expectations in light of epidemiological knowledge. Natal girls were markedly overrepresented among applicants. Severe psychopathology preceding onset of gender dysphoria was common. Autism spectrum problems were very common
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4396787/

    Evidence and the experience of experts in the field suggests again and again that something is amiss. It's not just me being randomly prejudicial or bigoted, much as some might like to dismiss it as such.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Malayalam wrote: »
    By the way this is the level of narcissism and victimhood being encouraged in young people...

    DnVD0xkXoAECNJR.jpg

    Holy f**king Jesus, how the hell do you get SO arrogant that you put yourself above someone dying of cancer ????


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    I'm not qualified to discuss what is and isnt a mental health issue and i doubt you are either. The professionals involved dont consider it a mental health issue so i go with them.

    There are professionals who do consider it a mental health issue. It's clear they are not alone in feeling too intimidated to speak out. The OP included details of one such expert and her research.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    I
    .........To be honest, I can’t see that happening, but I’m not at the point yet where I do believe there is actually a credible threat present in society that the vast majority of parents don’t have the confidence in their own parenting to be able to say “No” to their children. I’m aware of parents who are mentally at least paralysed with an inability to say no to their children and continue to enable them for fear that the child will take their own lives, and I can understand that hearing “You’ll regret this” from a child when they’re sent out to school or they’re refused the latest gadget would indeed take on a far more sinister undertone when the parents know their children have not just the knowledge, but now also the means to carry out such a threat. They fear for their children’s happiness, health and indeed their safety, and so they are more likely to enable the behaviour and the mentality rather than tempt fate as it were.


    A couple of years ago, Katherine Zappone created the frame work for legislation on Transgender rights. I can't recall the full title just now but I read it at the time. There was a strong emphasis on labelling dissenting parents as ''unsupportive'' and iirc helping teenagers to overcome parents objections. Maybe someone else knows the one I'm thinking of?


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