Investigation into 4000% increase in girls unhappy with their gender.

Malayalam

I was hoping somebody else would open a thread on this story over the last couple of days as I would hate to become boards resident TERF, especially since I am radically fairly much anything except a radical feminist. Meh. Trans Investigating Gardener? Ok, TIGer will do.

The Minister for Equality in Britain, Penny Mordaunt, who surely as much as anybody would have sympathy for Trans peoples, given that it's her job to do so, has opened an urgent investigation into why there has been such a phenomenal increase in girls seeking gender reassignment - a whopping 4000 - 4500% increase in less than 8 years.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/inquiry-into-surge-in-gender-treatment-ordered-by-penny-mordaunt-b2ftz9hfn

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1018407/gender-transition-treatment-investigation-penny-mordaunt

Last night a source at the Government Equalities Office said: “There has been a substantial increase in the number of individuals assigned female at birth being referred to the NHS.

“There is evidence that this trend is happening in other countries as well. Little is known, however, about why this is and what are the long-term impacts.”

It is not true that little is known. There are considerable amounts of evidence that this is an online problem that has leaked out into the real world where it has found unusual support in right on PC liberal ideology which seeks instead of questioning if there is a problem to AFFIRM the identifications. Madness!

There was a study done recently among parents of girls with Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria by Professor Lisa Littman of Brown University (USA) and that study showed that there is loads of evidence of a social contagion or psychic epidemic fueled by social media. Lots of lovely sites on Tumblr and Youtube that advocate for gender confusion. This is only one example of research in the area.

This research by Littman....

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330&type=printable

...caused a massive row with transactivists and resulted in the material being removed (memory-holed) from the Brown University website. Concerns were expressed that ''the conclusions of the study could be used to discredit efforts to support transgender youth and invalidate the perspectives of members of the transgender community.''

Quelle surprise! (It's a gardening term). Don't mind me.

Doesn't matter how many young girls battling through puberty, and who might otherwise in different times have struggled with depression or anxiety or anorexia or cutting or sexual orientation issues are instead now being shuttled along the identifying as transgender route. Thereafter they have the option to consider hormones, then mastectomies, which are being performed on girls as young as 13 years old in America. Soon this side of the pond, no doubt.

https://thefederalist.com/2018/09/12/u-s-doctors-performing-double-mastectomies-healthy-13-year-old-girls/

Not to mention later on the incredibly brave move of mutilating their bodies to form a neo-penis - I will link not show, this is a disturbing image of arm, don't say i did not warn you - https://www.google.ie/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjLqYiaj8TdAhUKCcAKHfE_AQkQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.andrewiguy.com%2F2013%2F07%2Fmy-donor-arm-please-view-with-caution.html&psig=AOvVaw39MNQsF494kDPCRzNyNvz5&ust=1537345168724148

Yeah, looks like I won't shut up about this insane crap because, well, it makes me mad as hell. At the very least people should know about this stuff going on even if they shrug their shoulders afterwards. LEAVE THE CHILDREN ALONE.

quokula

One correction, it’s not Penny Mourdant’s job to be sympathetic, it’s her job to define how sympathetic or otherwise the government should be. Given that the UK has an increasingly extreme right wing government that position is unlikely to be overly sympathetic and is more likely to be one of trying to find any possible evidence to justify their prejudice.

I think the fact that you stated yourself, in the past some transgender people would have just been depressed instead, explains the increase pretty clearly, as they now have options to get out of depression that weren’t there before.

Malayalam

quokula wrote: »

One correction, it’s not Penny Mourdant’s job to be sympathetic, it’s her job to define how sympathetic or otherwise the government should be. Given that the UK has an increasingly extreme right wing government that position is unlikely to be overly sympathetic and is more likely to be one of trying to find any possible evidence to justify their prejudice.

I think the fact that you stated yourself, in the past some transgender people would have just been depressed instead, explains the increase pretty clearly, as they now have options to get out of depression that weren’t there before.

The UK has an increasingly extreme right wing government? That's news to me! Or is anyone a centimetre to the right of Marx an extreme right winger now? (Not that I have any love for the UK government, I don't). And getting out of teenage depression by drastically mutilating the body, surgically or chemically, before the frontal cortex is sufficiently developed to know definitively what the hell is going on with this crazy ride called life? Pffft. Seems a bit messed up to me.

Mr. Incognito

Little is known, however, about why this is and what are the long-term impacts.”

This.

However you enjoy your rant.

They are not children. They are sentient adults making their own decisions.

Why don't you take your judgmental bigoted views elsewhere.

Malayalam

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

This.

However you enjoy your rant.

They are not children. They are sentient adults making their own decisions.

Why don't you take your judgmental bigoted views elsewhere.

Uh. Yeah. Sorry. Go back and read. The investigation is specifically about CHILDREN.

Mr. Incognito

Malayalam wrote: »

Uh. Yeah. Sorry. Go back and read. The investigation is specifically about CHILDREN.

Apologies.

Carry on with your Telegraph backed rant.

PlaneSpeeking

Malayalam wrote: »

The UK has an increasingly extreme right wing government? That's news to me! Or is anyone a centimetre to the right of Marx an extreme right winger now? (Not that I have any love for the UK government, I don't). And getting out of teenage depression by drastically mutilating the body, surgically or chemically, before the frontal cortex is sufficiently developed to know definitively what the hell is going on with this crazy ride called life? Pffft. Seems a bit messed up to me.

You're on a hiding to nothing on this one Tiger!

The study was worrying - mainly because (possibly) well meaning groups have defined what being female is.

They perpetuate the myth of the constantly attacked woman, always the prey and needing chaperones for meetings with men and special considerations for jobs like shortlists etc. They create the mythical gender pay gap which is so far from being real it might as well have Mr Tumnus on speed dial.

Serena Williams is treated like a goddess for getting to final a whilst being a parent, Roger Federer has four children and wins regularly - Serena is not an impoverish single mother, she's a long time outta Compton and has a billionaire husband. Is it somehow more important to be a mother ? No wonder men suffer in childcare and custody cases - cf the "UK soap star" who had her kids removed and there was a backlash, yet no one knows why - she may be an unfit parent. Katie Price - shagging her toyboy on holiday and missing her youngest's first day at school, a man would be destroyed for doing that.

Can you blame girls nowadays for not wanting to be part of that ????

PlaneSpeeking

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Apologies.

Carry on with your Telegraph backed rant.

Oh look another who blames the medium and ignores the message.

ohnonotgmail

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Apologies.

Carry on with your Telegraph backed rant.

I was thinking more Daily Mail online comments section myself.

begbysback

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

This.

However you enjoy your rant.

They are not children. They are sentient adults making their own decisions.

Why don't you take your judgmental bigoted views elsewhere.

Any chance you could clarify who you are arguing with when quoting, ain't no way I'm reading the long winded posts above but I'd like to know who you are fighting with for entertainment purposes.

Malayalam

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Apologies.

Carry on with your Telegraph backed rant.

Too late for that. It's pretty much in all the media now, I caught it first in the Times anyway, the Telegraph won't let me in 'cos I adblock

And yeah, do you know what, I will rant about ideologically-sourced state-sanctioned interference with CHILDREN, I sure will. Forever and ever.

But back to the substance of the investigation perhaps the UK govt could consider the ultra violent female degrading porn that pervades places like Tumblr et al, and that some have queried as being the root behind some girls not wanting to have a female body. Funny how the algorithms let that stuff through and yet a peep about other things will result in bans and demonetisation etc. Weird.

ohnonotgmail

Malayalam wrote: »

Too late for that. It's pretty much in all the media now, I caught it first in the Times anyway, the Telegraph won't let me in 'cos I adblock

And yeah, do you know what, I will rant about ideologically-sourced state-sanctioned interference with CHILDREN, I sure will. Forever and ever.

But back to the substance of the investigation perhaps the UK govt could consider the ultra violent female degrading porn that pervades places like Tumblr et al, and that some have queried as being the root behind some girls not wanting to have a female body. Funny how the algorithms let that stuff through and yet a peep about other things will result in bans and demonetisation etc. Weird.

Or maybe it is because it starts from a very low base figure of 40 (which is basically 0 in a population of 60M) so you end up with your headline grabbing figure of 4000%.

Malayalam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Or maybe it is because it starts from a very low base figure of 40 (which is basically 0 in a population of 60M) so you end up with your headline grabbing figure of 4000%.

So what happened in the last 8 years, Ohnonotgmail? If ebola, which would start at a low percentage in a population base, increased 4000% would you be worried? If schizophrenia which is about 1% now increased 4000% in 8 years would you bother to wonder why? Are you really truly going to say it is simply because children feel sooooo much more comfortable to come forward now and declare that they hate and loathe their birth bodies, rather than there having been any impact from external information sources and social propaganda? Are you going to deny the experts in the field, who work day in day out in gender clinics, and who express similar concerns? Are you going to ignore the regularly shown comorbidty of gender dysphoria with autism and mental health issues? Are you above all going to ignore the absolute ideological incoherence of claiming that gender is a social construct, that it resides in the feelings, and yet concentrate every single bit of gender activism into BODY? Starting with children.

suicide_circus

phalloplastys for all!!

ohnonotgmail

Malayalam wrote: »

So what happened in the last 8 years, Ohnonotgmail? If ebola, which would start at a low percentage in a population base, increased 4000% would you be worried? If schizophrenia which is about 1% now increased 4000% in 8 years would you bother to wonder why? Are you really truly going to say it is simply because children feel sooooo much more comfortable to come forward now and declare that they hate and loathe their birth bodies, rather than there having been any impact from external information sources and social propaganda? Are you going to deny the experts in the field, who work day in day out in gender clinics, and who express similar concerns? Are you going to ignore the regularly shown comorbidty of gender dysphoria with autism and mental health issues? Are you above all going to ignore the absolute ideological incoherence of claiming that gender is a social construct, that it resides in the feelings, and yet concentrate every single bit of gender activism into BODY? Starting with children.

who exactly do you think you are helping with this thread? You referred to a lack of sympathy in Penny Mordaunt but i see damn little sympathy from you.

7aubzxk43m2sni

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Apologies.

Carry on with your Telegraph backed rant.

"You're wrong because of X, and you're a bigot and a transphobe".

*someone points out that X is not true*

"Yeah well you're still a bigot"

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

who exactly do you think you are helping with this thread? You referred to a lack of sympathy in Penny Mordaunt but i see damn little sympathy from you.

What other topics should not be discussed?

Sesame

I would say every single teenage girl has body issues when they hit puberty. They have these new breasts, hips start widening, and at the very same time as all this, what girls are wearing makes this more obvious. It's a pretty rubbish time as along with all that, they lose their little girl cuteness, there's spots and greasy hair etc.

I was one of those girls even though I was late to develop. It eventually hit around 15-16. Before that I was interested in my computer games, reading and other typical boyish activities.
Looking back on photos of me at the time, I was wearing big baggy black jumpers, baggy jeans and runners. I did not want that stuff to happen to me. But I was quite happy with my life, just not into makeup, magazines, clothes at all and in denial about puberty!

Looking back, life was ok. I wished I was a boy a few times (still do, it just seems easier) but I was mé and happy enough with that.

Now when I look at the more polarised boy or girl baby clothes, boy or girl toys, boy or girl after school activities, it seems to me to make things much harder on girls that don't want to be put in that category of clothes/activities/things girls talk about. It's difficult for girls to escape.

As an example, from about age 2 and up, it's really difficult to buy children's trousers that are not skin tight like leggings or skinny jeans for girls. When was the last time you saw a girl child in boy type jeans? It was common in the 80s and 90s from memory, but not now. It's skin tight or dresses/skirts. Why do we put small girls in leggings and boys in more comfortable jeans? A question for another place.

But my point is, this new increase in girls wanting to be more like boys or even be boys is coming from a lack of gender neutral expectations of children and teenagers. A child is a child. Gender should not mean that a whole category of how a life is lived is pigeonholed into how either male or females should look or behave.

And men that do become women often use the most exaggerated womenly clothes (high heals, clownish makeup, etc) which makes a mockery of what a woman is. The efforts they go to to being a woman is not typical of many women. The whole gender identity issue, in my opinion is not reflective of real life.

If I was a teenager now, I would probably be rsearching a new gender identity myself. I am so glad I'm not as my body remains intact as female and produced children.

Mutilating young bodies because they are questioning if they belong in a certain social strata is wrong. I know some may genuinely be body dismorphic and this is rare. In the cases of body dismorphia, the person wants to change sex and is repulsed by what they consider the wrong genetialia and believe they were born into the wrong body. In that case, a sex change operation and hormone therapy may be their only solution. This is different to the gender questioning that many teenagers do.

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

What other topics should not be discussed?

where have i said i it should not be discussed? But perhaps if we are going to discuss a sensitive subject we do so in a sensitive manner and not via aggression and sarcasm. Is that too much to ask?

Malayalam

suicide_circus wrote: »

What other topics should not be discussed?

This is it really. How has one been made feel embarrassed to even think about some things. I think I write about this specifically to push back against the inner withdrawal to silence. And even though it is abused as bigotry and ranting I would prefer one more person would know about what children face than for every voice to be silent

Summer wind

If mastectomies are being carried out on 13 year old children that’s completely mental.

Malayalam

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where have i said i it should not be discussed? But perhaps if we are going to discuss a sensitive subject we do so in a sensitive manner and not via aggression and sarcasm. Is that too much to ask?

Do you know why? Because I genuinely feel angry especially when I see bodily suffering...can't help it. I will try and disguise it as nonchalance or as another poster who doesn't like words on a written medium suggested, as entertainment. I apologise for some sarcasm, it's how I deal with anger. And I am angry. I am invested in the lineage, I am interested in what happens with children from many angles

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

where have i said i it should not be discussed? But perhaps if we are going to discuss a sensitive subject we do so in a sensitive manner and not via aggression and sarcasm. Is that too much to ask?

is it possible to discuss this topic honestly? any suggestion that this is a metal health issue is now a "phobia" and evidence bigotry.

ohnonotgmail

suicide_circus wrote: »

is it possible to discuss this topic honestly? any suggestion that this is a metal health issue is now a "phobia" and evidence bigotry.

I'm not qualified to discuss what is and isnt a mental health issue and i doubt you are either. The professionals involved dont consider it a mental health issue so i go with them.

suicide_circus

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I'm not qualified to discuss what is and isnt a mental health issue and i doubt you are either. The professionals involved dont consider it a mental health issue so i go with them.

case closed I guess

bloodless_coup

The last time I posted on this kind of topic I got banned.

Careful now, make sure you say only "correct" things.

PlaneSpeeking

Sesame wrote: »

I would say every single teenage girl has body issues when they hit puberty. They have these new breasts, hips start widening, and at the very same time as all this, what girls are wearing makes this more obvious. It's a pretty rubbish time as along with all that, they lose their little girl cuteness, there's spots and greasy hair etc.

I was one of those girls even though I was late to develop. It eventually hit around 15-16. Before that I was interested in my computer games, reading and other typical boyish activities.
Looking back on photos of me at the time, I was wearing big baggy black jumpers, baggy jeans and runners. I did not want that stuff to happen to me. But I was quite happy with my life, just not into makeup, magazines, clothes at all and in denial about puberty!

Looking back, life was ok. I wished I was a boy a few times (still do, it just seems easier) but I was mé and happy enough with that.

Now when I look at the more polarised boy or girl baby clothes, boy or girl toys, boy or girl after school activities, it seems to me to make things much harder on girls that don't want to be put in that category of clothes/activities/things girls talk about. It's difficult for girls to escape.

As an example, from about age 2 and up, it's really difficult to buy children's trousers that are not skin tight like leggings or skinny jeans for girls. When was the last time you saw a girl child in boy type jeans? It was common in the 80s and 90s from memory, but not now. It's skin tight or dresses/skirts. Why do we put small girls in leggings and boys in more comfortable jeans? A question for another place.

But my point is, this new increase in girls wanting to be more like boys or even be boys is coming from a lack of gender neutral expectations of children and teenagers. A child is a child. Gender should not mean that a whole category of how a life is lived is pigeonholed into how either male or females should look or behave.

And men that do become women often use the most exaggerated womenly clothes (high heals, clownish makeup, etc) which makes a mockery of what a woman is. The efforts they go to to being a woman is not typical of many women. The whole gender identity issue, in my opinion is not reflective of real life.

If I was a teenager now, I would probably be rsearching a new gender identity myself. I am so glad I'm not as my body remains intact as female and produced children.

Mutilating young bodies because they are questioning if they belong in a certain social strata is wrong. I know some may genuinely be body dismorphic and this is rare. In the cases of body dismorphia, the person wants to change sex and is repulsed by what they consider the wrong genetialia and believe they were born into the wrong body. In that case, a sex change operation and hormone therapy may be their only solution. This is different to the gender questioning that many teenagers do.

i think you may be me! Well said!!!!

flatty

It's the frontal lobotomy of the generation. A mutilating surgical procedure for what is largely a mental issue. You can dance round it all you like, but I suspect future generations will be horrified.

How Soon Is Now

flatty wrote: »

It's the frontal lobotomy of the generation. A mutilating surgical procedure for what is largely a mental issue. You can dance round it all you like, but I suspect future generations will be horrified.

Future generations will come with neither male or female body parts they will be purchased as "addons" when the person decides what they wanna be!

Skylinehead

doylefe wrote: »

The last time I posted on this kind of topic I got banned.

Careful now, make sure you say only "correct" things.

Don't post in this one either then, if you've nothing useful to say

Your Face

4000%?!
That's like...




















A lot.

suicide_circus

Body integrity dysphoria = mental health issue.

Gender dysphoria = not a mental health issue.

Franz Von Peppercorn

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I was thinking more Daily Mail online comments section myself.

This isn’t any kind of reasonable argument. In real life I know plenty of people generally on the left who aren’t really that comfortable with these kind of interventions with children.

Mostly this shows how controlling the ideas of fashion are.

wexie

Should we be checking the Feedback forum for a thread on the raging transphobia in AH?

pleas advice

doylefe wrote: »

The last time I posted on this kind of topic I got banned.

Careful now, make sure you say only "correct" things.

who is your daddy and what does he do?

pickarooney

Malayalam wrote: »

If schizophrenia which is about 1% now increased 4000% in 8 years would you bother to wonder why?

You'll have to explain the maths behind that hypothesis!

bloodless_coup

Nixonbot wrote: »

Don't post in this one either then, if you've nothing useful to say

I've plenty useful to say on the topic.

Creative83

doylefe wrote: »

I've plenty useful to say on the topic.

Just make sure you don't go against the right on PC narrative on here and even suggest they may be headbangers :rolleyes:

freshpopcorn

People like Louise O'Neill doesn't help constantly going on about how it's unsafe to be a woman.

PlaneSpeeking

wexie wrote: »

Should we be checking the Feedback forum for a thread on the raging transphobia in AH?

No but there might be one on why everything has to be "... phobic" when it's child protection we're talking.

I work with trans students - potentially - to my knowledge only one has come out in a decade.

The current penchant for being able to declare oneself a different gender irks her beyond words - this girl went through family disownment, painful surgeries and cultural "snubbing" - to become the person she should have been born.

Yes there's a mental health component - she had counselling, and why not ? It is a massive step.

To call people questioning this "transphobic" is myopic and pointless and just stifles discussion.

PlaneSpeeking

freshpopcorn wrote: »

People like Louise O'Neill doesn't help constantly going on about how it's unsafe to be a woman.

I walked from the pub at midnight on Sunday after the footy, no bother.

Gets back here and two women say "did a man not offer to walk you ?".

I'm heading for 50 - I don't need my hand held ffs!!!!!

Loves_lorries

quokula wrote: »

One correction, it’s not Penny Mourdant’s job to be sympathetic, it’s her job to define how sympathetic or otherwise the government should be. Given that the UK has an increasingly extreme right wing government that position is unlikely to be overly sympathetic and is more likely to be one of trying to find any possible evidence to justify their prejudice.

I think the fact that you stated yourself, in the past some transgender people would have just been depressed instead, explains the increase pretty clearly, as they now have options to get out of depression that weren’t there before.

The current government in the UK is less right wing than the Blair government circa 2001 to 2007

wexie

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

To call people questioning this "transphobic" is myopic and pointless and just stifles discussion.

I know someone who's going to be (sideways) involved in a project to support transgender people and while she is very excited at the prospect (because she thinks she will be able to help and feels that more support is necessary) she's also dreading it because of precisely this tendency to shut down any questioning and just label it as bigotry. (that's not to say there isn't any bigotry out there, but probably far less than they'd have you believe)

irishproduce

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

You're on a hiding to nothing on this one Tiger!

The study was worrying - mainly because (possibly) well meaning groups have defined what being female is.

They perpetuate the myth of the constantly attacked woman, always the prey and needing chaperones for meetings with men and special considerations for jobs like shortlists etc. They create the mythical gender pay gap which is so far from being real it might as well have Mr Tumnus on speed dial.

Serena Williams is treated like a goddess for getting to final a whilst being a parent, Roger Federer has four children and wins regularly - Serena is not an impoverish single mother, she's a long time outta Compton and has a billionaire husband. Is it somehow more important to be a mother ? No wonder men suffer in childcare and custody cases - cf the "UK soap star" who had her kids removed and there was a backlash, yet no one knows why - she may be an unfit parent. Katie Price - shagging her toyboy on holiday and missing her youngest's first day at school, a man would be destroyed for doing that.

Can you blame girls nowadays for not wanting to be part of that ????

I just want to say that I like the cut of your jib.
More please :-)

Ficheall

Sesame wrote: »

As an example, from about age 2 and up, it's really difficult to buy children's trousers that are not skin tight like leggings or skinny jeans for girls. When was the last time you saw a girl child in boy type jeans? It was common in the 80s and 90s from memory, but not now. It's skin tight or dresses/skirts. Why do we put small girls in leggings and boys in more comfortable jeans? A question for another place.

As a 31-year old man, I'd also like to know where I can cheaply buy comfortable loose-fitting jeans that don't cling to your legs or try to strangle your crotch.

Sesame

Ficheall wrote: »

As a 31-year old man, I'd also like to know where I can cheaply buy comfortable loose-fitting jeans that don't cling to your legs or try to strangle your crotch.

Ha, my husband buys his in old man shops!

Malayalam

pickarooney wrote: »

You'll have to explain the maths behind that hypothesis!

Heh, sorry, maths is not my strong suit. But it is a heck of an increase. Social contagions and psychic epidemics have happened before. Examples include multiple personality disorder which became a buzz diagnosis for some years, satanic panics, removal of children from parents for imagined sex abuse (clusters). And there have also been historical examples of medical reactions to issues that seemed viable at the time like lobotomy, even eugenics. It's my firm opinion that we will look back at the affirmation of gender dysphoria in children as insanity. At the scale it's increasing especially.

One eyed Jack

Malayalam wrote: »

Heh, sorry, maths is not my strong suit. But it is a heck of an increase. Social contagions and psychic epidemics have happened before. Examples include multiple personality disorder which became a buzz diagnosis for some years, satanic panics, removal of children from parents for imagined sex abuse (clusters). And there have also been historical examples of medical reactions to issues that seemed viable at the time like lobotomy, even eugenics. It's my firm opinion that we will look back at the affirmation of gender dysphoria in children as insanity. At the scale it's increasing especially.

It really is one heck of an increase, but the phenomenon of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (wayhey, they’ve managed to medicalise it!) isn’t actually a new phenomenon in and of itself. It’s just a different way of expressing something that has always been prevalent in society - children questioning their place and where and how they fit in in society. Their increasing exposure to social media takes that level of introspection to the nth degree, and now they have not just the ability, but also the tools to self-diagnose and have their own self-diagnosis confirmed for them, and the mindset is even encouraged. This used happen through books, music, art and even in their own limited cultural experience of the physical world. Social media now offers them a place where their imaginations can and often will tend to run wild. The uncertainty they have creates an opportunity for unscrupulous capitalist entrepreneurs to fill their inquisitive minds with all sorts of “answers” that “just make sense” to them, appealing to their need to make sense of the world and their place within it.

One of the more troubling overall aspects of this cultural phenomenon was identified in the study you linked to and it is that of the “victim mentality” as a social currency -


Parents describe a process of immersion in social media, such as “binge-watch- ing” Youtube transition videos and excessive use of Tumblr, immediately preceding their child becoming gender dysphoric. These descriptions are atypical for the presentation of gender dys- phoria described in the research literature [1–5] and raise the question of whether social influ- ences may be contributing to or even driving these occurrences of gender dysphoria in some populations of adolescents and young adults. For the purpose of this study, rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) is defined as a type of adolescent-onset or late-onset gender dysphoria where the development of gender dysphoria is observed to begin suddenly during or after puberty in an adolescent or young adult who would not have met criteria for gender dysphoria in childhood.

...

The majority of respondents (69.2%) believed that their child was using language that they found online when they “came out.” A total of 130 participants provided optional open text responses to this question, and responses fell into the following categories: why they thought the child was using language they found online (51); description of what the child said but didn’t provide a reason that they suspected the child was using language they found online (61); something else about the conversation (8) or the child (7) and don’t know (3). Of the 51 responses describing reasons why respondents thought their child was reproducing language they found online, the top two reasons were that it didn’t sound like their child’s voice (19 respondents) and that the parent later looked online and recognized the same words and phrases that their child used when they announced a transgender identity (14 respondents). The observation that it didn’t sound like their child’s voice was also expressed as “sounding scripted,” like their child was “reading from a script,” “wooden,” “like a form letter,” and that it didn’t sound like their child’s words. Parents described finding the words their child said to them “verbatim,” “word for word,” “practically copy and paste,” and “identical” in online and other sources. The following quotes capture these top two observations. One parent said, “It seemed different from the way she usually talked—I remember thinking it was like hearing someone who had memorized a lot of definitions for a vocabulary test.” Another respondent said, “The email [my child sent to me] read like all of the narratives posted online almost word for word.”

...

Theme: emphasizing victimhood. Participants described that their children and friend group seemed to focus on feeling as though they were victims. One participant described, “They seem to wear any problems they may have, real or perceived like badges of honor. . .I feel like they want to believe they are oppressed & have really ’been through life’, when they have little life experience.” Another participant said, “. . .there is a lot of feeling like a victim [and being] part of a victimized club.” Another parent said “But all talk is very ’victim’ cen- tered”. And finally, another said, “They passionately decry ‘Straight Privilege’ and ‘White Male Privilege’—while emphasizing their own ‘Victimhood.’”


In short, it’s not just this particular phenomenon should be taken in isolation without acknowledging the broader context of the influence of social media, and whether or not the State has a responsibility to step in and legislate to prohibit this type of content in the interests of children’s welfare and society as a whole.

To be honest, I can’t see that happening, but I’m not at the point yet where I do believe there is actually a credible threat present in society that the vast majority of parents don’t have the confidence in their own parenting to be able to say “No” to their children. I’m aware of parents who are mentally at least paralysed with an inability to say no to their children and continue to enable them for fear that the child will take their own lives, and I can understand that hearing “You’ll regret this” from a child when they’re sent out to school or they’re refused the latest gadget would indeed take on a far more sinister undertone when the parents know their children have not just the knowledge, but now also the means to carry out such a threat. They fear for their children’s happiness, health and indeed their safety, and so they are more likely to enable the behaviour and the mentality rather than tempt fate as it were.

It’s moral panic of a different kind, and a different nature is all, and the mainstream media and social media corporations certainly don’t help matters as creating and fostering moral panic among the public is how they generate income for themselves. To say they are irresponsible is an understatement, but I don’t imagine it has any influence on what they choose to publish when it’s giving people what they actually want. They wouldn’t be as popular or powerful as they are if people didn’t want the snake oil and moral values they’re selling.

Malayalam

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It really is one heck of an increase, but the phenomenon of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (wayhey, they’ve managed to medicalise it!) isn’t actually a new phenomenon in and of itself. It’s just a different way of expressing something that has always been prevalent in society - children questioning their place and where and how they fit in in society. Their increasing exposure to social media takes that level of introspection to the nth degree, and now they have not just the ability, but also the tools to self-diagnose and have their own self-diagnosis confirmed for them, and the mindset is even encouraged. This used happen through books, music, art and even in their own limited cultural experience of the physical world. Social media now offers them a place where their imaginations can and often will tend to run wild. The uncertainty they have creates an opportunity for unscrupulous capitalist entrepreneurs to fill their inquisitive minds with all sorts of “answers” that “just make sense” to them, appealing to their need to make sense of the world and their place within it.

One of the more troubling overall aspects of this cultural phenomenon was identified in the study you linked to and it is that of the “victim mentality” as a social currency -
.......


In short, it’s not just this particular phenomenon should be taken in isolation without acknowledging the broader context of the influence of social media, and whether or not the State has a responsibility to step in and legislate to prohibit this type of content in the interests of children’s welfare and society as a whole.

To be honest, I can’t see that happening, but I’m not at the point yet where I do believe there is actually a credible threat present in society that the vast majority of parents don’t have the confidence in their own parenting to be able to say “No” to their children. I’m aware of parents who are mentally at least paralysed with an inability to say no to their children and continue to enable them for fear that the child will take their own lives, and I can understand that hearing “You’ll regret this” from a child when they’re sent out to school or they’re refused the latest gadget would indeed take on a far more sinister undertone when the parents know their children have not just the knowledge, but now also the means to carry out such a threat. They fear for their children’s happiness, health and indeed their safety, and so they are more likely to enable the behaviour and the mentality rather than tempt fate as it were.

It’s moral panic of a different kind, and a different nature is all, and the mainstream media and social media corporations certainly don’t help matters as creating and fostering moral panic among the public is how they generate income for themselves. To say they are irresponsible is an understatement, but I don’t imagine it has any influence on what they choose to publish when it’s giving people what they actually want. They wouldn’t be as popular or powerful as they are if people didn’t want the snake oil and moral values they’re selling.

Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Do you know, One Eyed Jack, it's not just (for me anyways) that there is a problem going on in the recesses of social media, it's the interface between that ethereal world and the real live flesh and blood world when the dodgy material in there meets an ideologically indoctrinated PC culture that can't or won't wave the stop sign or have cop on. It's not just regarding childhood gender dysphoria, it's there in pornified sex, and hyped up promiscuity that does no ones head any good, especially kids.

Sure kids have always felt like questioning their place in society, but much more from the ears up type of thing before, I would have thought, rather than this fecken obsession with genitalia and secondary sexual characteristics etc.

Also some respondents here have said how they were tomboys and hated that girly stuff and how bad this would have been if they were kids. But there is another kind of kid who would be not interested. I was always feminine as a child, reserved, shy etc but absolutely not a tomboy. I had zero interest in gender or sex until practically adulthood, the body was just how I travelled around the place. So there are other kinds of girls who are not tomboys, but who could not possibly fit into the present highly genderised culture comfortably. Ironically this specific genderising of the childhood culture is coming from the very ideology that says gender is fluid.
Maybe the culture overall has become hyper-sexualised for children and that is what we did not notice creeping up on us? That's quite worrying.

(Sorry for vagueness. I know I am not expressing myself well. Now that the rage has gone off me hehe)

silverharp

Malayalam wrote: »

Also some respondents here have said how they were tomboys and hated that girly stuff and how bad this would have been if they were kids. But there is another kind of kid who would be not interested. I was always feminine as a child, reserved, shy etc but absolutely not a tomboy. I had zero interest in gender or sex until practically adulthood, the body was just how I travelled around the place. So there are other kinds of girls who are not tomboys, but who could not possibly fit into the present highly genderised culture comfortably.

Can you give some examples types or well known individuals? If ever there was time where people are allowed more individuality it is now so relative to the past there is less “genderised culture comfortably”

Malayalam

silverharp wrote: »

Can you give some examples types or well known individuals? If ever there was time where people are allowed more individuality it is now so relative to the past there is less “genderised culture comfortably”

Not sure I get your meaning. But it was in response to posters mentioning the highly genderised outfits available for kids - which is true. Also toys past times etc. Heck, you could even get bra and knicker twin sets for toddlers a couple of years ago in Penneys. Little girls are wearing lipstick and blusher to their First Holy Communions and Irish Dancing regattas. Hair, beauty, the whole shebang, it's all much more in the face of children. I cannot even manage high heels yet, so I am really glad I did not have to be glam when still a child. And don't even start about young teens.