illegal to video Gardai

Beechwoodspark · 17-09-2018 07:37PM

Given their fairly recent history guards need more surveillance not less.

Hitman3000 · 17-09-2018 07:38PM

Odhinn wrote:

The notion a gardas word is some infallible rock of honesty should go the same way the notion applied to a priests word went.

I have no such notion , the courts however most of the time attribute infallibility to the evidence given by a guard. A camera uncorrupted is more reliable.

odetooi · 17-09-2018 07:39PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I remember a case a couple of years ago where a Garda turned the on street surveillance camera away several times from an incident where a couple of members of the force were getting heavy handed with a young lad . Happened in Waterford or Wexford. She got suspended for her actions but reinstated after a court case.

Surely some public retribution is warranted. Do you remember the Garda who was cracking heads a few years back? His nickname was RoboCop. He is now on the board of Garda ethics! You couldn't make it up.
Only in Ireland

Hitman3000 · 17-09-2018 07:41PM

odetooi wrote:

Surely some public retribution is warranted. Do you remember the Garda who was cracking heads a few years back? His nickname was RoboCop. He is now on the board of Garda ethics! You couldn't make it up. Only in Ireland

Public retribution if you mean sack them. Yes of course all for it.

odetooi · 17-09-2018 07:42PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Public retribution if you mean sack them. Yes of course all for it.

Yes sack them first. I like your thinking

kneemos · 17-09-2018 07:44PM

Heebie wrote: »

It's a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea.
The Gardai would end up completely out of control.
The Justice minister should be fired for making such an evil statement.

There was a time nobody had a camera in their pocket.

Roger Hassenforder · 17-09-2018 07:47PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I have no such notion , the courts however most of the time attribute infallibility to the evidence given by a guard. A camera uncorrupted is more reliable.

Its kind of the way the justice system works.
Its assumed anyone giving evidence under oath is telling the truth until the contrary can be shown, irrespective of how dodgy they look.

We have a deficiency in our justice system though, how we deal with perjury or fabricated evidence.

Video away. It's how its used should be the real debate.

wexie · 17-09-2018 07:48PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Video away. It's how its used should be the real debate.

Exactly the point.

Taking a picture of a gard doing what he's doing should be A okay.

Consequently putting it online with threats etc.....not so much

Captain Obvious · 17-09-2018 07:52PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I remember a case a couple of years ago where a Garda turned the on street surveillance camera away several times from an incident where a couple of members of the force were getting heavy handed with a young lad . Happened in Waterford or Wexford. She got suspended for her actions but reinstated after a court case.

I think you have your facts mixed up. The man on the camera was given two years in jail and is no longer a Garda.

Hitman3000 · 17-09-2018 07:52PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

irrespective of how dodgy they look.

The judge at the Jobstown trail had to instruct the jury to disregard some evidence/ testimony given by several Garda. Doubt they looked dodgy tbh. ; )

Gatling · 17-09-2018 07:55PM

Heebie wrote: »

The Gardai would end up completely out of control.

Why ,

Were they out of control pre camera phones??

Roger Hassenforder · 17-09-2018 07:58PM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I think you have your facts mixed up. The man on the camera was given two years in jail and is no longer a Garda.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.rte.ie/amp/308371/

Spot on.

wpd · 17-09-2018 07:59PM

there are a fair view garda on youtube
I would say they hate it

billyhead · 17-09-2018 07:59PM

Its a shame that its got to the stage were everything you do is being watched and possibly posted on social media. I feel sorry for the Gardai. You never see anything leading up to a so called abuse of power incident by the Gardai i.e physical verbal abuse of the Garda or intimidation etc. Bring back Lugs Brannigan and his style of policing I say to deal with a lot of these scrotes.

Roger Hassenforder · 17-09-2018 08:01PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The judge at the Jobstown trail had to instruct the jury to disregard some evidence/ testimony given by several Garda. Doubt they looked dodgy tbh. ; )

Before or after they gave evidence?
Or after they were shown to be economical with the truth?

There's a big difference!

Are Am Eye · 17-09-2018 08:06PM

I think people are conflating the body cam issue with the photography.

The former, which the gardai themselves have called for and which will inevitably come in, does not lead to any publicly available pictures. And hence no iding or giving peoples addresses. The footage would be available to courts, gsoc, dpp and that sort of thing.

The issue that was brought up today was anyone taking a picture of cops in public. That's a different kettle of fish. But I don't think there is any possiblity of it happening. It's an idea that somebody through out there and not a policy that the govt are pursuing. It didn't seem to meet with any favor. It would be unenforceable any way with miniature cameras, long distance filming, anonymous uploading etc.

17-09-2018 08:11PM

One should have the inalienable right to record Gardaí if a dispute is expected to arise.

wexie · 17-09-2018 08:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

One should have the inalienable right to record Gardaí if a dispute is expected to arise.

As long as one also accepts that the Gardaí have the same inalienable right to record a member of the public they expect a dispute might arise with.

But I suspect many people might have issues with that, I wonder why that might be.

Hitman3000 · 17-09-2018 08:28PM

Wasn't a man it was a female . A Sgt I believe.
Apologies the female Sgt took part in the assualt and got a 4 month suspended sentence. The 2 males are no longer in the force. One of the guys was on the camera. Thanks for the correction.

Specialun · 17-09-2018 08:31PM

“gardai make accountability illegal”

Heebie · 17-09-2018 08:52PM

kneemos wrote:

There was a time nobody had a camera in their pocket.

There were a lot more press photographers back then, and then got on scene for anything potentially newsworthy really fast.

KaiserGunner · 17-09-2018 09:01PM

Oh dear.

Hitman3000 · 17-09-2018 09:02PM

I see a ban a comin'.

Captain Obvious · 17-09-2018 09:03PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Wasn't a man it was a female . A Sgt I believe.
Apologies the female Sgt took part in the assualt and got a 4 month suspended sentence. The 2 males are no longer in the force. One of the guys was on the camera. Thanks for the correction.

There was two sergeants and three Gardaí involved. The Garda on the camera got a prison sentence and so did one at the scene. One was acquitted. one wasn't charged and one was convicted but had a suspended sentence. She was dismissed from the job but the Supreme Court decided her dismissal was not procedurally correct and ordered her reinstatement.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Before or after they gave evidence?
Or after they were shown to be economical with the truth?

There's a big difference!

They gave evidence that didn't match up exactly with some video footage or each other. People just assume they were lying instead of simply remembering what happened incorrectly. Whichever you believe, it's a good example of why there should not be a ban on recording Gardaí and why they should have bodycams. Even the most honest of witnesses can still be wrong. Memory is unreliable, video is much more reliable, although not infallible.

I'd prefer any restriction to be based on publication. Not only for the safety of Gardaí but for the privacy of people they deal with and protecting potential court cases.

Infini · 17-09-2018 09:03PM

Gatling wrote: »

When it's gotten to the point people are posting pictures of Gardai on social media and asking people to share and identify them , along with home addresses and where their kids go to school ,
It's no longer about Claiming Garda corruption but trying to organise lynching under some attempt to get back a Gardai by well known scumbags ,
And add the current trend of ramming a phone or camera in a Guard's face while pushing and screaming at them to claim police brutality

Honestly this I agree with. The problem as we see in the other thread over the Frederick street issue is that these little scummers think they're big men that they can harass people online or give their families grief. We also have issue's with the vermin in the city getting brave because they think they can intimidate and get their way with people and it's getting to the point there needs to be a proper clamp down on all these anti-social scummers.

odetooi wrote: »

Justice minister says he would support legislation making videoing of Gardai illegal.

Who thinks its a good idea?

I would say what they need to specifically do is make Doxxing a proper offense here and/or subject to libel law's for slander depending on the severity. The real issue is the scumbag's getting brave cos they think they can be the big man on the internet and harass people with no consequence.

Captain Obvious · 17-09-2018 09:04PM

Specialun wrote: »

“gardai make accountability illegal”

A spectacular ignorance of how laws are passed.

wexie · 17-09-2018 09:10PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I see a ban a comin'.

you're welcome :pac:

TheValeyard · 17-09-2018 09:12PM

This suggested law is a really, really bad idea.

NasserShammaz · 17-09-2018 09:17PM

Just ban really bad videos ! ones where you can't see Sh*t a bit of floor a tree bit of the action more floor sometimes in portrait then landscape
Drive you up the wall, if your going to video prepare do we think the Guards videos of protesters are **** hell no .

TheValeyard · 18-09-2018 07:04PM

Leo says it aint happening.

Pitchforks away until next outrage!

illegal to video Gardai

Comments