IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

duffysfarm · 13-09-2018 07:14AM #1

Why are the ifa willing to take on the vulture funds when the beef factories are taking advantage of the bad weather and screwing farmers black and blue for so long now. Nobody seems to be saying anything about this. I mean a certain beef Barron has sheds and sheds full of cattle. If supply gets scarce he has his own supply rather than have to pay more to the market. Also a poor price in the factories means stores are cheaper which he also buys which feeds into the problem so again it suits him here to keep beef prices down!

This thread has been split from the Vulture Fund Selling Farm thread. OP provided by duffysfarm but titled by Greysides.
Enjoy.

mahoney_j · 13-09-2018 07:23AM

duffysfarm wrote: »

Why are the ifa willing to take on the vulture funds when the beef factories are taking advantage of the bad weather and screwing farmers black and blue for so long now. Nobody seems to be saying anything about this. I mean a certain beef Barron has sheds and sheds full of cattle. If supply gets scarce he has his own supply rather than have to pay more to the market. Also a poor price in the factories means stores are cheaper which he also buys which feeds into the problem so again it suits him here to keep beef prices down!

Off topic but your right there afraid of there ****e to upset Larry

wrangler · 13-09-2018 07:41AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Off topic but your right there afraid of there ****e to upset Larry

If beef was €3 this week farmers would still be sending them in, I cant't believe he's still offering 3.80

duffysfarm · 13-09-2018 07:48AM

And if the price dropped from 3.90 to 3.00 would it drop in price in the butchers and supermarkets also? I think not

wrangler wrote: »

If beef was €3 this week farmers would still be sending them in, I cant't believe he's still offering 3.80

wrangler · 13-09-2018 08:04AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Off topic but your right there afraid of there ****e to upset Larry

Be interesting to see your reaction if IFA asked farmers to withdraw supplies because that is the only solution.....whinge on if you like .
bravado like yours is very shallow
Very easy to stop them buying cheap...don't sell

Bass Reeves · 13-09-2018 08:09AM

wrangler wrote: »

If beef was €3 this week farmers would still be sending them in, I cant't believe he's still offering 3.80

If processors drop it much below present prices live export come on line even to the UK. Lad above in Louth is again advertizing for Fr bullocks for export. At 3/KG we be sending them live to North Africa and shooting most calves at birth.

duffysfarm · 13-09-2018 08:22AM

Would be very interesting indeed.......
Only asked a question, no need to take it so personal princess!

wrangler wrote: »

Be interesting to see your reaction if IFA asked farmers to withdraw supplies because that is the only solution.....whinge on if you like .
bravado like yours is very shallow
Very easy to stop them buying cheap...don't sell

whelan2 · 13-09-2018 08:26AM

wrangler wrote: »

If beef was €3 this week farmers would still be sending them in, I cant't believe he's still offering 3.80

I was in a lorry with a factory agent the other day. He said you would not believe the amount of lads who let the cheque they get from the factory go out of date. Whinging over price on the day and haggling over a couple of cent and then not cashing the cheque. The mind boggles

wrangler · 13-09-2018 08:34AM

duffysfarm wrote: »

Would be very interesting indeed.......
Only asked a question, no need to take it so personal princess!

I've put too much time into representing farmers to be told I'm afraid of my s...e of anyone......... thankless job.

In 2001 when IFA disbanded to stop the fines,'' bravado'' beef farmers whinged about being ''exposed'' to fines at the factory gates... as I say no backbone and as you say afraid of their s...e

54and56 · 13-09-2018 08:35AM

duffysfarm wrote: »

Why are the ifa willing to take on the vulture funds when the beef factories are taking advantage of the bad weather and screwing farmers black and blue for so long now. Nobody seems to be saying anything about this. I mean a certain beef Barron has sheds and sheds full of cattle. If supply gets scarce he has his own supply rather than have to pay more to the market. Also a poor price in the factories means stores are cheaper which he also buys which feeds into the problem so again it suits him here to keep beef prices down!

Three things on this:-

1. Why should a certain beef baron (or anyone else in business) pay more for their raw material than suppliers of raw material are willing to sell for????

2. When running any business it is bad policy to allow yourself to become overly dependent on one source of supply, to do so leaves you at risk of unwelcome price increases so if the certain beef baron is mitigating this risk by maintaining an independent source of supply he can tap when prices are above what he is prepared to pay that is nothing more than good business management / risk mitigation.

3. I can never understand why farmers, who in the past had grouped together in co-op's, don't develop their own beef factories in order to reduce their own reliance on selling to a certain beef baron!!!

charolais0153 · 13-09-2018 08:37AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Three things on this:-

1. Why should a certain beef baron (or anyone else in business) pay more for their raw material than suppliers of raw material are willing to sell for????

2. When running any business it is bad policy to allow yourself to become overly dependent on one source of supply, to do so leaves you at risk of unwelcome price increases so if the certain beef baron is mitigating this risk by maintaining an independent source of supply he can tap when prices are above what he is prepared to pay that is nothing more than good business management / risk mitigation.

3. I can never understand why farmers, who in the past had grouped together in co-op's, don't develop their own beef factories in order to reduce their own reliance on selling to a certain beef baron!!!

1. He shouldn't
2. Yes
3. Greed

whelan2 · 13-09-2018 08:37AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Three things on this:-

3. I can never understand why farmers, who in the past had grouped together in co-op's, don't develop their own beef factories in order to reduce their own reliance on selling to a certain beef baron!!!

Then we'd have nothing to give out about

wrangler · 13-09-2018 08:41AM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Three things on this:-

1. Why should a certain beef baron (or anyone else in business) pay more for their raw material than suppliers of raw material are willing to sell for????

2. When running any business it is bad policy to allow yourself to become overly dependent on one source of supply, to do so leaves you at risk of unwelcome price increases so if the certain beef baron is mitigating this risk by maintaining an independent source of supply he can tap when prices are above what he is prepared to pay that is nothing more than good business management / risk mitigation.

3. I can never understand why farmers, who in the past had grouped together in co-op's, don't develop their own beef factories in order to reduce their own reliance on selling to a certain beef baron!!!

Great questions, been trying to point out some of your points to others here for a long time

coolshannagh28 · 13-09-2018 09:33AM

Larry is having it both ways ; dropping the beef price like a stone and snapping up cheap land from vulture funds.

whelan2 · 13-09-2018 09:34AM

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Larry is having it both ways ; dropping the beef price like a stone and snapping up cheap land from vulture funds.

He never bought that land in fairness

coolshannagh28 · 13-09-2018 09:37AM

whelan2 wrote: »

He never bought that land in fairness

He has a heart after all !

whelan2 · 13-09-2018 09:38AM

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

He has a heart after all !

Just setting the record straight. I'm not standing up for him

54and56 · 13-09-2018 09:47AM

coolshannagh28 wrote: »

Larry is having it both ways ; dropping the beef price like a stone and snapping up cheap land from vulture funds.

No one party, unless there is a monopoly in place, can manipulate the price.

As I understand it Larry publishes the price at which he is prepared to buy beef on a daily (or regular basis) and farmers, having looked at all options available to them (not sell at that time or sell to someone else) choose whether or not they wish to sell to Larry at the price he is prepared to pay.

If he gets enough farmers to sell to him at that price why would he offer to pay more?

54and56 · 13-09-2018 09:50AM

whelan2 wrote: »

He never bought that land in fairness

Sounds like a smart move. Let others (farmers) tie up huge capital in infrastructure producing a commodity product with traditionally slim margins whilst he concentrates on buying the commodity at the lowest price possible, processes it to add value and makes a decent profit.

I REALLY REALLY don't understand why farmers don't set up their own meat factories so they can keep more of the value add profit themselves.

mahoney_j · 13-09-2018 09:50AM

wrangler wrote: »

Be interesting to see your reaction if IFA asked farmers to withdraw supplies because that is the only solution.....whinge on if you like .
bravado like yours is very shallow
Very easy to stop them buying cheap...don't sell

Cool the jets I agree with u on withdrawing supplies be it beef or milk,few days with no milk or beef would be the only language manufactures will understand but farmers are too smart for there own good and this won’t happen .on the ifa been all over the vulture fund case and hiding away from the factories I stand over it ,it’s a fight deep down they don’t want

Turnipman · 13-09-2018 10:14AM

goat2 wrote: »

“Our debt support team has looked at this case in detail, we have sought professional advice and we are firmly of the view that this farmer has put a very credible proposal to make structured repayments.”

Martin Stapleton said farm families should be given time to repay their debts over a longer term to keep the farm intact and IFA is standing behind farmers who are committed to implementing a credible solution.

In which case there's absolutely nothing to stop the IFA from paying off the debt from its substantial reserves and taking over the lads' loan.

Seeing as the IFA's "professional advisers" have advised that there's a credible proposal on the table, then it's a complete no-brainer!

So c'mo IFA, quit the posturing and put your money where your mouth is.

tanko · 13-09-2018 10:44AM

Turnipman wrote: »

In which case there's absolutely nothing to stop the IFA from paying off the debt from its substantial reserves and taking over the lads' loan.

Seeing as the IFA's "professional advisers" have advised that there's a credible proposal on the table, then it's a complete no-brainer!

So c'mo IFA, quit the posturing and put your money where your mouth is.

Excellent point, but this will never happen. The IFA aka the Irish Factories Association is only interested in one thing which is lining their own pockets with the €13 million which irish farmers are stupidly giving them every year and having a good time with it.

The salaries and pensions in the IFA are so obscene and embarrasing that they wont even publish them.

If the lads in this case wont pay back the money they borrowed then the land should be taken off them.
But of course both they and the useless sh*tes in the IFA think that someone else should pick up the bill.

K.G. · 13-09-2018 02:12PM

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Sounds like a smart move. Let others (farmers) tie up huge capital in infrastructure producing a commodity product with traditionally slim margins whilst he concentrates on buying the commodity at the lowest price possible, processes it to add value and makes a decent profit.

I REALLY REALLY don't understand why farmers don't set up their own meat factories so they can keep more of the value add profit themselves.

Because margins in yhe beef game are small ironically enough.its just that larry has by hook or by crook put himself in a dominatant postion in this country.you have to understand that the majority of beef farming is a lifestyle choice rather than an business decision

54and56 · 13-09-2018 04:16PM

K.G. wrote: »

Because margins in yhe beef game are small ironically enough.its just that larry has by hook or by crook put himself in a dominatant postion in this country.you have to understand that the majority of beef farming is a lifestyle choice rather than an business decision

That's fine and in fact admirable if it's what you genuinely want to do with your life but if it's your chosen lifestyle why moan about it? No one is forcing you to spend your life at it unless you are such a weakling that you are unable to say to Mammy and Daddy that you want more out of the one life you have than to merely "keep the farm going", how miserable a future that must be for a young person in their 20's to be looking forward to???

Also, if it's a lifestyle choice not a commercial business why try to play by and complain about the rules of the commercial game e.g.:-

1. That the price you can sell your product for is less than you'd like. - Either do something about it (individually by changing the product you produce or collectively by setting up a co-op type meat processing factory) or stop complaining because after all you're not running it as a business.

2. That the price of land is too high or you borrowed too much to buy land and now can't pay it back. - It literally took me 3 minutes to work out you shouldn't pay more than €1,500 an acre if you're producing €200 a year in profit (available cashflow) per annum with which to make loan repayments and you want to avoid getting into financial distress. Just because your neighbours are prepared to make reckless financial decisions doesn't mean you have to follow them, especially if you've chosen to run a lifestyle business.

charolais0153 · 13-09-2018 04:26PM

K.G. wrote: »

Because margins in yhe beef game are small ironically enough.its just that larry has by hook or by crook put himself in a dominatant postion in this country.you have to understand that the majority of beef farming is a lifestyle choice rather than an business decision

Didnt he get bailed out by the govt. Bit like the banks?

K.G. · 13-09-2018 06:26PM

charolais0153 wrote: »

Didnt he get bailed out by the govt. Bit like the banks?

As the phrasr goes by hook or by crook.but even at that stage he was in a strong position.

Calfscour · 13-09-2018 06:28PM

wrangler wrote: »

Great questions, been trying to point out some of your points to others here for a long time

He just explained it in a much much better way.

older by the day · 13-09-2018 07:55PM

Don't be worrying yourself lads, farming is a business and a cut throat one at that. Don't be expecting IF A to help you, they don't have that much power, if the processors a are getting cattle at a price why should they pay more. I stood outside the factory gate blockades the last time. The factory were told before hand and filled up with cattle. They knew when it was to finish and the lorry were waiting at the gate. STUPID. The only hope is that scarcity will drive prices up sometime. It won't be this year. Draw your BPS and Gloss and keep your numbers and costs low

White Clover · 13-09-2018 08:30PM

K.G. wrote: »

As the phrasr goes by hook or by crook.but even at that stage he was in a strong position.

Was it Charlie or Albert that put him going again?

wrangler · 13-09-2018 08:59PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Cool the jets I agree with u on withdrawing supplies be it beef or milk,few days with no milk or beef would be the only language manufactures will understand but farmers are too smart for there own good and this won’t happen .on the ifa been all over the vulture fund case and hiding away from the factories I stand over it ,it’s a fight deep down they don’t want

IFA have always had guys to help with negotiations , nothing new there, I've used them myself and referred people to them.
I never wanted to be bothered by beef price either but it wasn't because i was afraid of anything apart from maybe farmer apathy. It's a waste of time, why bother, it's a dead end.
While people think that TDs get up every day wondering how much money we'll give the farmers to day we won't need representation..
Meanwhile I struggle here on a tax free income......a concession that the TDs must have given me without being asked that;s subsidised by a generous CPO land deal that the same TDS must have said we deserved and then santa claus delivered a nursing home fair deal scheme for rich land owning farmers.
All this must be true because if you believe you guys, sure begorrah, IFA are doing nothing
I can tell you I'm laughing all the way to the bank

wrangler · 13-09-2018 09:08PM

older by the day wrote: »

Don't be worrying yourself lads, farming is a business and a cut throat one at that. Don't be expecting IF A to help you, they don't have that much power, if the processors a are getting cattle at a price why should they pay more. I stood outside the factory gate blockades the last time. The factory were told before hand and filled up with cattle. They knew when it was to finish and the lorry were waiting at the gate. STUPID. The only hope is that scarcity will drive prices up sometime. It won't be this year. Draw your BPS and Gloss and keep your numbers and costs low

It must have been the saddest protest ever, I worked at it but never supported it, was delighted when national exec overruled the livestock commitee and called it off.....if there was support for it it wouldn't have been stopped that easy, if you pulled the county and national officers out of it it would've failed of it's own accord

IFA and Factory Bitching thread.

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