NI secretary didn't get why 'people who are nationalists don't vote for unionists'

Atoms for Peace · 07-09-2018 07:32PM

Yadiel Stale Thud wrote: »

Later on, possibly after being shown a map, she was shown what areas were 'colour coded' as shades of either 'green', or 'orange',
maybe she pointed to the 'blue bit in the middle' and asked "And who on earth are these people?".

"Err, that's Lough Neagh", someone else said, interjecting into the conversation.

Atlantians?:pac:

4068ac1elhodqr · 07-09-2018 07:43PM

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Atlantians?:pac:

Suppose back in the 16th century the blues would be Scots or Gallowglass as apposed to Gaels vs Norman/Old English.

Maybe further back the jolly Viking lads up against the various Clans of O', Mc, Burke, Butler, Fitz and whatever else.

Just checked that map is slightly out of date from 2001 census,
and the Green colour by numbers areas may well become the majority hue around 2030.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 07-09-2018 07:52PM

Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

What would Ian Snr think?

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 07-09-2018 07:54PM

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

*ALL EXPENSES PAID*

What would Ian think?

ULSTER SAYS...NO...SOMETIMES.

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-09-2018 10:03PM

Adds substance to the idea that Great Britain may be going for a forced detachment of the NI from the UK. Clearly it solves the intractable Brexit problem that is holding up negotiations and the drafting of a truly workable post-Brexit relationship. Whether it subsequently chooses to join the republic would be up to an internal referendum, with the alternative being a new independent country of NI, or at best, a Crown Dependency. Either way, Westminster would be rid of the particular problem that NI presents it. Having an NI secretary who is effectively entirely ignorant of it, shows how distant NI is from any serious consideration in the British Govt. And, there is nothing the people of NI could do about it. They would simply be cut adrift.

07-09-2018 10:39PM

indioblack wrote: »

They can give me the job. I'm from England, [by way of Cork], and I knew more as a teenager in the 1960's. Perhaps I read different books than the minister. As a teenager, talking to my Irish relatives gave me a clue that all was not well[!]
I didn't have to agree with everything I listened to, watched or read - but at least I wasn't unaware.

I'm sorry but you are far too overqualified for the position

ted1 · 07-09-2018 11:36PM

uch wrote: »

Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

nice_guy80 · 07-09-2018 11:43PM

The people of the UK don't care about NI

ted1 · 07-09-2018 11:51PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

The people of the UK don't care about NI

You mean the people of GB.

The Uk is GB and NI

timbel · 08-09-2018 12:06AM

NIMAN wrote: »

But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

Not unique to NI, I think you'll find. Michael Lowry anyone?

the_syco · 08-09-2018 12:16AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-09-2018 12:35AM

ted1 wrote: »

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

3,000 people died in The Troubles.

The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.

In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.

NI elected exactly ZERO MPs from English parties.

Lefties don't vote Tory. It's not like there's a lot of Conservative MPs in certain parts of England either.

The UK is full of safe seats too, where the result is a foregone conclusion.

This isn't rocket surgery.

This is not doing any research or not even asking the stupid question or not asking anyone to get her up to speed.

Mo Mowlan she ain't.

Capt'n Midnight · 08-09-2018 12:43AM

the_syco wrote: »

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

SDLP will sit, if elected. Alliance too. But its FPTP

SF have abstained since before the founding of the state, so its not like the electorate have any expectations on this. FPTP means you MUST vote for whoever is most likely to beat the person you don't want to win. All other considerations are moot.

Down here we can vote for who you want AND use other preferences as a Plan-B to keep your vote far away from those you don't want to win.

Folkstonian · 08-09-2018 12:58AM

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

indioblack · 08-09-2018 01:30AM

Folkstonian wrote: »

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.

08-09-2018 11:23AM

ted1 wrote: »

I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

I think she was emphasizing her surprise at the fact nationalist and unionist politicians don’t actually compete with each other for votes, they compete with other nationalist or unionist parties.

pickarooney · 09-09-2018 07:47AM

Folkstonian wrote: »

I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

In any job in the world you have to have a bare minimum of knowledge of the role you're expected to fill. Why is such an important appointment exempt from that?

twinytwo · 09-09-2018 08:19AM

the_syco wrote: »

If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.

they better go begging for that funding, considering foster cost the country close to 500 million pounds..

TheQuietFella · 09-09-2018 08:34AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

But isn't that just typical of the British viewpoint!

Annasopra · 09-09-2018 08:34AM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

3,000 people died in The Troubles.

The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.

In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.
...

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

Annasopra · 09-09-2018 08:36AM

indioblack wrote: »

Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.

But if she didnt know she was going to get the job?

zapitastas · 09-09-2018 09:01AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

But if she didnt know she was going to get the job?

Well then appoint someone who would know a little about the situation. There must be someone that would have some knowledge and understanding

backspin. · 09-09-2018 09:12AM

It's amazing that someone could grow up during the trouble, especially a future politician and not have the interest to do a little reading on the problem within her own country at the time.

Capt'n Midnight · 09-09-2018 12:08PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

SNP still have more than twice the number of seats of everyone else put together. Labour and Lib Dems still only got one seat each.

Given that 38% of Scottish Voters voted leave and the 2017 election was all about Brexit the Tory vote is unimpressive. Also unimpressive is what the Scottish Conservatives have delivered for Scotland, the DUP got a lot more for less seats.

By ditching Scotland the Tories could perhaps keep a majority for another generation. OAP's are dying at a rate of 2% a year, something the conservatives are well aware of.

Ditching NI would save a lot more than what they spend on the EU.

Oddly enough even though the Unionists vote Tory and SF abstain it was Labour that appointed the only decent secretary.

The Rape of Lucretia · 09-09-2018 12:24PM

zapitastas wrote: »

Well then appoint someone who would know a little about the situation. There must be someone that would have some knowledge and understanding

They are minsterial appointments. Systematically, they have no background or expertise in their brief. It is the flaw in parliamentary cabinet politics. The people who would fit the job description are the various heads of departments. Its how we appoint ministers of finance who have no higher education at all, health ministers who have been educated to be journalists, or housing ministers trained in English and philosophy (and then wonder why we dont have enough houses).
No different really.

ELM327 · 09-09-2018 12:31PM

The british people en masse don't care (or in some cases don't even know the major details) about the north.
I don't see why she is being laughed at for this.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 09-09-2018 12:43PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

so what? That’s the way it is still, more or less. SNP still at 40% enough to win all Westminster seats if divided equally amongst constituencies.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 09-09-2018 12:47PM

ELM327 wrote: »

The british people en masse don't care (or in some cases don't even know the major details) about the north.
I don't see why she is being laughed at for this.

Jesus wept. Firstly they should know about what is part of the U.K. Its not a large country.

Secondly she’s the actual minister for the place. Even if she were ignorant beforehand she should have done her research before talking about the place.

Thirdly she was 28 when the good Friday agreement was struck - you would have had to avoid all news sources in those 28 years to not understand the divided loyalties in Northern Ireland.

ELM327 · 09-09-2018 01:00PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Jesus wept. Firstly they should know about what is part of the U.K. Its not a large country.

Secondly she’s the actual minister for the place. Even if she were ignorant beforehand she should have done her research before talking about the place.

Thirdly she was 28 when the good Friday agreement was struck - you would have had to avoid all news sources in those 28 years to not understand the divided loyalties in Northern Ireland.

Jesus wept.
No one cares in the UK about the 6 counties to the north of Ireland.
A lot of them still refer to the UK as "the mainland" when they are in Ireland.

Let's look at this another way. She's a minister of state. In many governments, ministers of state are not experts in their field.

What difference does the GFA make to someone in London, Birmingham, Newcastle etc. None. You may aswell say they should know what happened to the EU ruling regarding Kohll vs "Union des Caisses de Maladie", as it was 28 years ago too.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 09-09-2018 01:14PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Jesus wept.
No one cares in the UK about the 6 counties to the north of Ireland.
A lot of them still refer to the UK as "the mainland" when they are in Ireland.

It’s part of their country. They should learn about it.

Let's look at this another way. She's a minister of state. In many governments, ministers of state are not experts in their field.

Everybody in the U.K. should know about Northern Ireland because it is part of the U.K.

What difference does the GFA make to someone in London, Birmingham, Newcastle etc. None. You may aswell say they should know what happened to the EU ruling regarding Kohll vs "Union des Caisses de Maladie", as it was 28 years ago too.

It’s part of the reason why bombs stopped in those places. It’s an agreement reached in their state between hostile actors in that actual country they actually live in.

It should be part of the ciriculum. It’s extraordinary that it isn’t.

Even however if you accept that people in the U.K. shouldn’t know about the U.K. a minister shouldn’t prove this ignorance. Do British ambassadors routinely say they know nothing about the countries they are ambassadors to?

NI secretary didn't get why 'people who are nationalists don't vote for unionists'

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