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NI secretary didn't get why 'people who are nationalists don't vote for unionists'

  • 07-09-2018 1:44pm
    #1
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    picardfacepalm.jpg
    Speaking in an interview to The House magazine, Bradley said, “I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn’t understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland.

    “I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland, people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa. So, the parties fight for the election within their own community... That’s a very different world from the world I came from.”

    Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,866 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    bear1 wrote: »
    To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.

    Ah come on this isn't an american tourist or something we are talking about, you'd expect someone in this position to have far more than the most basic understanding of what's going on, which she didn't even have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,798 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    Ah come on this isn't an american tourist or something we are talking about, you'd expect someone in this position to have far more than the most basic understanding of what's going on, which she didn't even have.

    Have to agree; her job is specifically to manage that part of the UK, she could have even wiki'd it. It would have taken about 2 minutes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Not sure what's worse.not knowing or admitting she didn't know!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,216 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    bear1 wrote: »
    To be fair to her, you'd want a serious amount of homework to understand the ****e up there.

    This is the basics...

    Its not the full suite of the problems.


    If someone hasnt got the graps of this and is involved in British politics, well then that explains brexit.


    Morons


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭uch


    Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

    21/25



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Not sure what's worse.not knowing or admitting she didn't know!

    Freely admitting even, not even slightly embarrassed by it. What's next, 'minister for brexit not ashamed he couldn't count past 10 when given job'??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    uch wrote: »
    Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same
    She's the Northern Ireland secretary though, so that shouldn't have any bearing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭uch


    She's the Northern Ireland secretary though, so that shouldn't have any bearing.


    All I'm saying is she's not in the Minority

    21/25



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Big wall.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭per aspera ad astra


    Your Face wrote: »
    Big wall.

    What about a big wall?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Later on, possibly after being shown a map, she was shown what areas were 'colour coded' as shades of either 'green', or 'orange',
    maybe she pointed to the 'blue bit in the middle' and asked "And who on earth are these people?".

    Cc0stFi.png

    "Err, that's Lough Neagh", someone else said, interjecting into the conversation.


  • Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Being a unionist must be pretty tough these days. It's like a nice guy in love with a girl who doesn't even know he exists.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭meathstevie


    Is she not a member of the "Conservative and Unionist Party".........


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    It is actually disgraceful that a government minister, or high ranking politician should have such poor knowledge of their own country. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the British establishment have nothing but disdain for the area. For years, until the civil rights marches it was allowed to fester as an apartheid state, with no effort to intervene.

    When the troubles kicked off the narrative for the typical British/English was just a religious war with no thing to do with them or their policies. Regardless of your views the issues in Northern Ireland are complex, this couldn't care less attitude unless there is violence is not acceptable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,860 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Big Ian Paisley always claimed that he got a lot of Catholic votes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    Well if you don't understand the sh!t up there, don't get involved in the **** up there.

    Britain has been involved now in 6 county politics for the last 5 decades now & pushing 6.

    Nationalists don't vote Unionist because since 1966 Unionist/Loyalist paramilitaries waged a bloody sectarian campaign against them until 1999, killing close to one thousand civilians.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭eyeball kid


    She should have watched this. It would have explained everything..



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    Big Ian Paisley always claimed that he got a lot of Catholic votes.

    He did claim that but it was rubbish. They voting patterns in the constitutency didn't reflect that. As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,081 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    zapitastas wrote: »
    As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.

    Black people and women voted for Trump.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,676 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    As daft as it makes her sound, it does show how silly NI politics is.

    Take the latest antics of Ian Paisley Jr.

    If he took luxury holidays for free withiut declaring them in the UK, he'd be dead as a politician.

    But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Black people and women voted for Trump.

    And? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,860 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    zapitastas wrote: »
    He did claim that but it was rubbish. They voting patterns in the constitutency didn't reflect that. As well as that he was constantly agitating against Catholics and egging on their removal from the north so how would someone of that background vote for him.

    I went looking for any information on the internet, being aware that I had heard him claiming that on the radio. But I couldn't find anything. Have you got actual voting patterns for places in North Antrim for all of his elections?

    More recently the DUP has claimed that conservative Catholics were voting for them, having felt abandoned by Sinn Fein's stance on abortion.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    NIMAN wrote: »
    As daft as it makes her sound, it does show how silly NI politics is.

    Take the latest antics of Ian Paisley Jr.

    If he took luxury holidays for free withiut declaring them in the UK, he'd be dead as a politician.

    But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

    I don't think anyone would dispute how mad NI politics are, but it's more the fact we have someone in charge who doesnt seem to have had the most basic grasp of NI appointed as Secretary at a time when the local politics was floundering, and surprise surprise we haven't seen any progress on that front since her appointment, except for the most uninspired solution of a threat to cut wages a few days ago


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,819 ✭✭✭BalcombeSt4


    joe40 wrote: »
    It is actually disgraceful that a government minister, or high ranking politician should have such poor knowledge of their own country. Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the British establishment have nothing but disdain for the area. For years, until the civil rights marches it was allowed to fester as an apartheid state, with no effort to intervene.

    When the troubles kicked off the narrative for the typical British/English was just a religious war with no thing to do with them or their policies. Regardless of your views the issues in Northern Ireland are complex, this couldn't care less attitude unless there is violence is not acceptable.

    It's part of the UK for now.

    Anyway British politicians not knowing anything about Ireland isn't anything new. I read in Peter Taylors 3 different series on on The Troubles Provo's, Loyalists & Brits.
    In the Brits one Sir Frank Cooper says:

    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
    There was a fear that you were going into an unknown mire, that you didn’t know what was there, you didn’t know what was going to happen to you when you were there, and how you got out at the other side of the bog. ..... [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] TAYLOR: Few imagined then (August 1969) that over 1000 soldiers and policemen would die.
    Did you lack knowledge of Ireland?
    COOPER: Oh yes. I don’t know anybody who knew a great deal about Ireland.
    [/FONT]
    [/FONT]

    They'd be better off just getting out of Ireland altogether. Know knoweldge of the place, majority of British people have disdain for the place, they don't want to be in the place, violence could flair up again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    She was born in 1970, so she must never have watched the news or read a paper throughout the '80s or '90s. Mind you, the north was usually item five on ITN/BBC News, so she probably would have to do a bit of independent digging to get beyond the 'IRA = baddies, British Army = goodies, Loyalist terrorists = who?' narrative.


  • Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's lots of selective quoting of this interview. What she actually said was:
    “I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn’t understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland,” she said.

    “I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought for example in Northern Ireland - people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice-versa.

    “So, the parties fight for the election within their own community. Actually, the unionist parties fight the elections against each other in unionist communities and nationalists in nationalist communities.

    “That’s a very different world from the world I came from where in Staffordshire Moorlands I was fighting a Labour-held seat as a Conservative politician and I was trying to put forward why you would want to switch from voting Labour to voting Conservative.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I don't think anyone would dispute how mad NI politics are, but it's more the fact we have someone in charge who doesnt seem to have had the most basic grasp of NI appointed as Secretary at a time when the local politics was floundering, and surprise surprise we haven't seen any progress on that front since her appointment, except for the most uninspired solution of a threat to cut wages a few days ago

    To be fair, feck all do. I'd say that within the political establishment there's many who haven't got a clue. And the same goes for the British people. Remember that bit where someone got them to draw Northern Ireland on a map? There were people slicing off donegal into the North. And I think at one point even westmeath got it.

    At least she was honest enough to admit it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    picardfacepalm.jpg



    Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

    They can give me the job. I'm from England, [by way of Cork], and I knew more as a teenager in the 1960's. Perhaps I read different books than the minister. As a teenager, talking to my Irish relatives gave me a clue that all was not well[!]
    I didn't have to agree with everything I listened to, watched or read - but at least I wasn't unaware.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    She is no Peter Brooke


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Later on, possibly after being shown a map, she was shown what areas were 'colour coded' as shades of either 'green', or 'orange',
    maybe she pointed to the 'blue bit in the middle' and asked "And who on earth are these people?".

    Cc0stFi.png

    "Err, that's Lough Neagh", someone else said, interjecting into the conversation.

    Atlantians?:pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Atlantians?:pac:

    Suppose back in the 16th century the blues would be Scots or Gallowglass as apposed to Gaels vs Norman/Old English.

    Maybe further back the jolly Viking lads up against the various Clans of O', Mc, Burke, Butler, Fitz and whatever else.

    Just checked that map is slightly out of date from 2001 census,
    and the Green colour by numbers areas may well become the majority hue around 2030.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

    *ALL EXPENSES PAID*

    *ALL EXPENSES PAID*

    What would Ian Snr think?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Ian Paisley Jnr brought the grand kids on a great round the world trip to places like Sri Lanka.

    *ALL EXPENSES PAID*

    *ALL EXPENSES PAID*

    What would Ian think?

    ULSTER SAYS...NO...SOMETIMES.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Adds substance to the idea that Great Britain may be going for a forced detachment of the NI from the UK. Clearly it solves the intractable Brexit problem that is holding up negotiations and the drafting of a truly workable post-Brexit relationship. Whether it subsequently chooses to join the republic would be up to an internal referendum, with the alternative being a new independent country of NI, or at best, a Crown Dependency. Either way, Westminster would be rid of the particular problem that NI presents it. Having an NI secretary who is effectively entirely ignorant of it, shows how distant NI is from any serious consideration in the British Govt. And, there is nothing the people of NI could do about it. They would simply be cut adrift.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    indioblack wrote: »
    They can give me the job. I'm from England, [by way of Cork], and I knew more as a teenager in the 1960's. Perhaps I read different books than the minister. As a teenager, talking to my Irish relatives gave me a clue that all was not well[!]
    I didn't have to agree with everything I listened to, watched or read - but at least I wasn't unaware.
    I'm sorry but you are far too overqualified for the position


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,894 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    uch wrote: »
    Gobshíte, but to be fair, I'd say millions of brits are the same

    I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    The people of the UK don't care about NI


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,894 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    The people of the UK don't care about NI

    You mean the people of GB.

    The Uk is GB and NI


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭timbel


    NIMAN wrote: »

    But in NI, he'll get the same number of votes again when he runs. Doesn't matter he did what he did. Sure he's a grand lad and so was his da, that'll be the logic tens of thousands of people in the unionist community will have.

    Not unique to NI, I think you'll find. Michael Lowry anyone?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,316 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue
    If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

    The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    ted1 wrote: »
    I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.
    3,000 people died in The Troubles.

    The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.


    In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.

    NI elected exactly ZERO MPs from English parties.

    Lefties don't vote Tory. It's not like there's a lot of Conservative MPs in certain parts of England either.

    The UK is full of safe seats too, where the result is a foregone conclusion.



    This isn't rocket surgery.

    This is not doing any research or not even asking the stupid question or not asking anyone to get her up to speed.



    Mo Mowlan she ain't.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    the_syco wrote: »
    If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

    The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.
    SDLP will sit, if elected. Alliance too. But its FPTP :(


    SF have abstained since before the founding of the state, so its not like the electorate have any expectations on this. FPTP means you MUST vote for whoever is most likely to beat the person you don't want to win. All other considerations are moot.

    Down here we can vote for who you want AND use other preferences as a Plan-B to keep your vote far away from those you don't want to win.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Folkstonian


    I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

    I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

    I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.
    Well, Ok - she's making an effort to learn.
    So, to be charitable to the lady, perhaps she should have been advised that this is one ministerial appointment where it's best to do some homework first.


  • Posts: 5,518 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ted1 wrote: »
    I might be giving her to much credit but I think she was emphasising exactly how ignorant british people are when it comes to the North and it’s politics.

    I think she was emphasizing her surprise at the fact nationalist and unionist politicians don’t actually compete with each other for votes, they compete with other nationalist or unionist parties.


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,731 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I’m not sure it is that big a surprise that she didn’t have a strong knowledge of her department before becoming Secretary of State. The important thing is probably that she made efforts to learn quickly after her appointment.

    I don’t suppose Grayling knew the first thing about transport policy, Gove about environmental policy, or Williamson about defence before they took up their respective posts. Secretaries of State are rarely particularly well informed from the outset (unless their remit is justice or the treasury obviously) - that’s why they are literally surrounded by senior civil servants and advisors everywhere they go.

    In any job in the world you have to have a bare minimum of knowledge of the role you're expected to fill. Why is such an important appointment exempt from that?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,410 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    the_syco wrote: »
    If you vote for a unionist, you'll be voting for someone who WILL sit in Westminster and be able to fight for funding for NI.

    The only time SF go near the seats that they were voted to sit in is to drink tea and eat cake.


    they better go begging for that funding, considering foster cost the country close to 500 million pounds..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    picardfacepalm.jpg



    Jesus christ, get your act together Downing Street and appoint someone who has the slightest clue

    But isn't that just typical of the British viewpoint!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,156 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    3,000 people died in The Troubles.

    The IRA nearly took out the Tory party in Brighton.


    In 2015 Scotland elected just ONE Tory MP , and only ONE each for Labour and Lib Dems. Kinda impossible to miss if you are a UK MP. Scottish Nationalists don't vote for English parties.
    ...

    Eh that was a huge historic high for the SNP and wasnt the traditional position at all.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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