Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

vectra · 02-09-2018 04:18PM

Jordan 199 wrote: »

If Vettel wants to win the championship, I don't think he can keep on making mistakes like he did today.

I think at this point he is going to need the Gods behind him.
He is literally throwing it away,
I think Ferrari backed the wrong driver this season with the car they have.

GarIT · 02-09-2018 04:22PM

kopite386 wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out how the teams will shape up next season so this is what I've come up with so far. I can't think of who will go into the Torro Rosso. I can't see Williams letting Siroktin go when he's a pay driver and the other Williams driver I'm thinking will either be Russel or Ocon.

Ferrari - Vettel and Kimi
Mercedes - Hamilton and Bottas
Red Bull - Verstappen and Gasly
Force India - Perez and Stroll
Haas - Magnussen and LeClerc
Torro Rosso -
McLaren - Sainz and Norris
Williams - Russel and Siroktin
Sauber - Giovannzzi and Erisken

AMuS reporting that Leclerc has signed with Ferrari but Ferrari are trying to get out of it. HAAS have confirmed they are keeping both of their drivers. Toto Wolf has said Ocon has a drive for next year.

ELM327 · 02-09-2018 04:22PM

vectra wrote: »

I think at this point he is going to need the Gods behind him.
He is literally throwing it away,

+1
Vettel will now probably lose the title, and for at least 2 serious driver errors. First in Germany and now here. And I think there was at least 1 other that escapes memory.
That's 75 points thrown away to Lewis with probably less than 20 consolation points.

vectra wrote: »

I think Ferrari backed the wrong driver this season with the car they have.

I don't think Kimi would do any better than seb tbh. Hard to know as he has had to play second fiddle the whole season, like Bottas today.

Unfortunately this season will again go to Lewis in all likelihood but at least Ferrari are giving it a go and it's not just 100% mercedes dominance.

chicorytip · 02-09-2018 05:17PM

GarIT wrote:

AMuS reporting that Leclerc has signed with Ferrari but Ferrari are trying to get out of it. HAAS have confirmed they are keeping both of their drivers. Toto Wolf has said Ocon has a drive for next year.

Kimi has to go, I say with regret. He now lacks the necessary speed and stamina - crucially in the latter stages of races. It's just the natural ageing process. He could not overtake Bottas despite driving the quicker machine and with new tyres. Victory was lost because of that. If they decide to keep him he could end up like the old footballer who plays on for too long only to end up embarrassing himself.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 02-09-2018 05:19PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Kimi has to go, I say with regret. He now lacks the necessary speed and stamina - crucially in the latter stages of races. It's just the natural ageing process. He could not overtake Bottas despite driving the quicker machine and with new tyres. Victory was lost because of that. If they decide to keep him he could end up like the old footballer who plays on for too long only to end up embarrassing himself.

Would you compare Kimi to Schumacher in his Mercedes days?

Inviere · 02-09-2018 05:35PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Would you compare Kimi to Schumacher in his Mercedes dats?

It's really difficult to say, the Mercedes wasn't fighting for titles back then. The Ferrari now is. Michael's racecraft may have been rusty, but he showed in Monaco (which is the biggest test of skill), that he could still put on a show for everyone.

I think Kimi drove very very well today, his tires let him down more than anything else. Could Ferrari have left him out longer before stopping him?

chicorytip · 02-09-2018 05:38PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote:

Would you compare Kimi to Schumacher in his Mercedes dats?

Schumacher was forty-one, I think, when he finally quit after his stint with Mercedes. He was driving an uncompetitive car so you could hardly be that critical of his performances but, still, here was a seven time champion down amongst the also rans. He came out of retirement for the wrong reasons and probably thought he could win titles again.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 02-09-2018 05:54PM

Inviere wrote: »

It's really difficult to say, the Mercedes wasn't fighting for titles back then. The Ferrari now is. Michael's racecraft may have been rusty, but he showed in Monaco (which is the biggest test of skill), that he could still put on a show for everyone.

I think Kimi drove very very well today, his tires let him down more than anything else. Could Ferrari have left him out longer before stopping him?

Yes Monaco was the big one in 2012.

chicorytip wrote: »

Schumacher was forty-one, I think, when he finally quit after his stint with Mercedes. He was driving an uncompetitive car so you could hardly be that critical of his performances but, still, here was a seven time champion down amongst the also rans. He came out of retirement for the wrong reasons and probably thought he could win titles again.

43 when he finally packed up. Hamilton was signed before Schumacher made the decision to finally quit, which gives me the impression he was pushed out.

He retired too soon in 2006.

Kimi Raikkonen is 39 next month.

skipper_G · 02-09-2018 06:14PM

Kimi is driving well this season generally speaking, however his biggest weakness has been inconsistency. The mission of a formula 1 team is simple, make the car go faster. Would Leclerc be any worse than Kimi, probably not. Would he be any better than Kimi, possibly. It's a risk worth taking

Frank Bullitt · 02-09-2018 06:41PM

vectra wrote: »

I think at this point he is going to need the Gods behind him.
He is literally throwing it away,
I think Ferrari backed the wrong driver this season with the car they have.

They probably would have if he was faster.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 02-09-2018 06:42PM

Renault have protested the Haas car. Desperation on their behalf?

vectra · 02-09-2018 07:59PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Kimi has to go, I say with regret. He now lacks the necessary speed and stamina - crucially in the latter stages of races. It's just the natural ageing process. He could not overtake Bottas despite driving the quicker machine and with new tyres. Victory was lost because of that. If they decide to keep him he could end up like the old footballer who plays on for too long only to end up embarrassing himself.

I think you are wrong in fairness. Victory was lost today because of Vettels desperation to win.
Did you not see Kimi was fighting against both Mercs on track with no hand?
Had Vettel been up there it would have very likely been a different result.

chicorytip · 02-09-2018 08:19PM

skipper_G wrote:

Kimi is driving well this season generally speaking, however his biggest weakness has been inconsistency. The mission of a formula 1 team is simple, make the car go faster. Would Leclerc be any worse than Kimi, probably not. Would he be any better than Kimi, possibly. It's a risk worth taking

He might win the odd race or two. Victories have not been a feature of Raikkonen's latter career. Bottas wins the occasional one as do both Red Bull's. Leclerc would not be my choice. I think it should be a more experienced head. Ricciardo would have been a perfect fit.

GarIT · 02-09-2018 09:51PM

Kimi and Ferrari lost today on strategy alone. Disregarding Vettel, Kimi pit too early got stuck behind Bottas when Bottas stayed out and tyres wore out before Hamilton because they were older. At the start of the race Kimi had Hamilton beat, if he waited to pit on the same lap or a lap after Hamilton he would have won.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 02-09-2018 10:01PM

GarIT wrote: »

Kimi and Ferrari lost today on strategy alone. Disregarding Vettel, Kimi pit too early got stuck behind Bottas when Bottas stayed out and tyres wore out before Hamilton because they were older. At the start of the race Kimi had Hamilton beat, if he waited to pit on the same lap or a lap after Hamilton he would have won.

Mercedes dummied Ferrari by coming out into the pit box that's what happened. Even if Hamilton pitted first I reckon Raikkonen would have gotten the job done. Bottas is a clear wingman and nothing else. Mercedes thanked their lucky stars when Rosberg retired and opted not to pick another driver who could challenge the superiority of their darling Louise.

GarIT · 02-09-2018 10:02PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Mercedes dummied Ferrari by coming out into the pit box that's what happened.

I know but they should have seen that coming. They've been around long enough to see that many times before.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 02-09-2018 10:08PM

GarIT wrote: »

I know but they should have seen that coming. They've been around long enough to see that many times before.

They did it after Kimi's stop as well for whatever reason.

Time that practice was outlawed across the board.

meeeeh · 02-09-2018 10:17PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Mercedes dummied Ferrari by coming out into the pit box that's what happened. Even if Hamilton pitted first I reckon Raikkonen would have gotten the job done. Bottas is a clear wingman and nothing else. Mercedes thanked their lucky stars when Rosberg retired and opted not to pick another driver who could challenge the superiority of their darling Louise.

I don't think there was much to it. They would do exactly the opposite to what Ferrari did. If they pitted first Hamilton would put in a couple of hot laps and drive off into distance. Merc was better on it's tyres today. I thought the tyres also worked better in Spa but then Vettel was just so much faster to build some distance between himself and Hamilton, Kimi wasn't. Seb is faster driver and there is a reason why he is Ferraris first driver.

chicorytip · 02-09-2018 10:58PM

GarIT wrote:

Kimi and Ferrari lost today on strategy alone. Disregarding Vettel, Kimi pit too early got stuck behind Bottas when Bottas stayed out and tyres wore out before Hamilton because they were older. At the start of the race Kimi had Hamilton beat, if he waited to pit on the same lap or a lap after Hamilton he would have won.

Kimi drove a brilliant first lap but was unable to extend his lead over Lewis by more than one second. Seb would have been half a mile up the road if similarly positioned. Kimi ought to have been able to overtake Bottas quickly - thus reducing tyre damage - but again lacked sufficient speed despite Bottas lapping at a much slower pace than Hamilton. He is obviously still committed and trying his utmost but his skills and stamina are in sharp decline. He is almost twenty years older than the youngest man on the grid! At the rate these new kids are coming along any driver aged over twenty five will be considered past it in the near future.

PukkaStukka · 02-09-2018 11:04PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Mercedes dummied Ferrari by coming out into the pit box that's what happened. Even if Hamilton pitted first I reckon Raikkonen would have gotten the job done. Bottas is a clear wingman and nothing else. Mercedes thanked their lucky stars when Rosberg retired and opted not to pick another driver who could challenge the superiority of their darling Louise.

Seb is faster driver and there is a reason why he is Ferraris first driver.

Agree, but it's impossible to fathom why they didn't issue team orders. Vettel should've led into turn 1 today. Vettel should've been the second Ferrari across the line yesterday and got the benefit of the tow. Mercedes won today because Ferrari threw it away through complacency, whereas Mercedes made the best of Bottas and got the job done. This is going the same way as it did this time last year with mistakes and poor decisions being Ferraris undoing. They need to knuckle down and stop faffing around.

GarIT · 03-09-2018 12:50AM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

They did it after Kimi's stop as well for whatever reason.

Time that practice was outlawed across the board.

It is except for cases of genuine strategy, Mercedes can say that they were going to do the opposite of Kimi and that's good enough.

They did it after because they intended to pit right after Kimi once they were a pitstop ahead, which they might have been able to do in one lap if hammertime had gained them a second but they didn't so they had to wait.

It would be difficult to outlaw it completely as you would have to make decisions before knowing what your opponent is doing.

vectra · 03-09-2018 01:20AM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

They did it after Kimi's stop as well for whatever reason.

Time that practice was outlawed across the board.

No pit crew on pit lane until their car is actually entering the pit lane.
That way there would be no dummies or confusion.
You are either pitting or not.
Simple.

Cool_CM · 03-09-2018 11:11AM

Looks like Vandoorne is gone at the end of the season

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/11489381/stoffel-vandoorne-dropped-by-mclaren-for-f1-2019

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 03-09-2018 11:17AM

Cool_CM wrote: »

Looks like Vandoorne is gone at the end of the season

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/11489381/stoffel-vandoorne-dropped-by-mclaren-for-f1-2019

Hardly a surprise really. Who would be the favourite? Ocon or Perez? I think Norris might end up at Toro Rosso alongside Kvyat with Hartley being dropped as well.

Harika · 03-09-2018 11:38AM

https://twitter.com/ernie1c/status/1036537841239695360

ORF, the Austrian free television with 7 Million people, reports an increase in F1 viewers in Monza. 648.000 in average up by 129.000 from last year. That's the same as Sky UK F1 produces (Spa, no Monza numbers yet up) with a country 10 times the population.

ELM327 · 03-09-2018 11:45AM

Cool_CM wrote: »

Looks like Vandoorne is gone at the end of the season

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12479/11489381/stoffel-vandoorne-dropped-by-mclaren-for-f1-2019

To be expected tbh. He's had his chance and not done anything.
Lando would be the next man up now. Lando and who for next year? Ocon?

flazio · 03-09-2018 11:47AM

ELM327 wrote: »

To be expected tbh. He's had his chance and not done anything.
Lando would be the next man up now. Lando and who for next year? Ocon?

Sainz is already confirmed

pjohnson · 03-09-2018 11:49AM

ELM327 wrote: »

To be expected tbh. He's had his chance and not done anything.
Lando would be the next man up now. Lando and who for next year? Ocon?

For McLaren? They've Sainz signed.

I'm suprised Vandoorne seems set to finish the season. I was thinking if Stroll does move to Force India then it would be whoever he replaces at FI that would take the McLaren seat from Vandoorne asap.

ELM327 · 03-09-2018 11:49AM

flazio wrote: »

Sainz is already confirmed

Rightio.
So that is pretty much pushing Ocon out of the series then.
What seats are left for next year?
Kimi's drive potentially but they wont accept a mercedes driver there
Toro rosso, cant see him landing there either

Anywhere else? Can't believe the likes of stroll, sirotkin, etc are in F1 for next year but someone like Ocon is potentially out.

GarIT · 03-09-2018 11:49AM

flazio wrote: »

Sainz is already confirmed

As well as Ocon being confirmed to be too big for the current car and the one they have already started designing for next year. It would take big money from Mercedes to get Ocon into next years McLaren.

Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

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