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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments

  • #3932
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Trasna1 wrote:
    Hardly a surprise when Catholics consider the seal of the confessional absolutely sacrosanct.


    Protection of children should be their first priority but it's the Catholic church.


  • #3933
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    Dannyriver wrote: »
    Most people I know watched to see how poor the turn out at the event was. The way one would watch a freak show really.

    Not much going on with your life to spend a Sunday afternoon doing this as your hobby.


  • #3934
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Arthur Daley wrote:
    Not much going on with your life to spend a Sunday afternoon doing this as your hobby.


    52 Sundays in a year. Frank was only here for one of them . One Sunday hardly constitutes a hobby. Very poor attempt at having a dig at someone. Try harder.


  • #3935
    Dannyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    Not much going on with your life to spend a Sunday afternoon doing this as your hobby.

    Hobby suggests something that happens on a continuum, cant see it ever being a hobby, in fact I doubt the pontiff will be back for a long long time since this visit was such a PR disaster for them


  • #3936
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Protection of children should be their first priority but it's the Catholic church.

    Then it wouldn't be logical to confess it in confession if you knew the priest was obliged to inform the civil authorities.
    Their argument is that if they hear it in confidence in the confessional they can convince the person to hand themselves in, or own up. If they don't hear about it they can't do anything.


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  • #3937
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Then it wouldn't be logical to confess it in confession if you knew the priest was obliged to inform the civil authorities.
    Their argument is that if they hear it in confidence in the confessional they can convince the person to hand themselves in, or own up. If they don't hear about it they can't do anything.

    The words logical and confession should never been in the same sentence.


  • #3938
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Just been looking at the RTE ratings for last weekend

    Average of 535,000 viewers watched the full Papal Mass from Phoenix Park with a peak audience of 1.1m viewers.

    Average of 379,000 viewers watched the four hour Festival of Families event at Croke Park on RTE2 on Saturday evening, with a peak audience of 570,000 viewers.

    Those figures are pretty decent, probably higher than people might have anticipated.

    I was channel surfing on saturday night and found it on BBC NI, then spotted it on RTE1/2, then found it on Sky News.
    I kept switching back and over to check it was same translator.
    Then watched for a bit to check out how the stadium looked.
    Thankfully didn't come across the Daniel O'D part.

    I haven't a fecking idea what he was talking about, but he had some family from somewhere on stage at one point.

    Have to say Croker looked okish in the dark, but the corporate box section came across as too bright.
    Overall I think it looked better for the opening of Special Olympics.

    So do I count as one of the zealous viewers even if watched just about 15 minutes of it ?


  • #3939
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Then it wouldn't be logical to confess it in confession if you knew the priest was obliged to inform the civil authorities.
    Their argument is that if they hear it in confidence in the confessional they can convince the person to hand themselves in, or own up. If they don't hear about it they can't do anything.


    The RCC:

    3-monkey-see-no-evil-hear-no-evil-speak-no-evil-ipad-23-case.jpg


  • #3940
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Trasna1 wrote:
    Then it wouldn't be logical to confess it in confession if you knew the priest was obliged to inform the civil authorities. Their argument is that if they hear it in confidence in the confessional they can convince the person to hand themselves in, or own up. If they don't hear about it they can't do anything.


    Even outside of the confessional they stayed quiet about abuse. So that bs doesn't wash.


  • #3941
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    jmayo wrote: »
    s.

    So do I count as one of the zealous viewers even if watched just about 15 minutes of it ?
    You count as 5 of them, as you flipped over and back.
    Knowing the propaganda machine that is RtÉ I wouldnt be surprised


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  • #3942
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Hardly a surprise when Catholics consider the seal of the confessional absolutely sacrosanct.

    And value it above the safety of little children. Disgusting.


  • #3943
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Flying Fox wrote: »
    And value it above the safety of little children. Disgusting.

    In fairness it's a card you could only play once (telling the police what was heard in the confession box). Once word got out via the first court case that the confessional was no longer sacrosanct then no-one would ever tell the priest anything like this in confession.
    So it's not as if it would save lots of children from abuse.


  • #3944
    Dannyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    In fairness it's a card you could only play once (telling the police what was heard in the confession box). Once word got out via the first court case that the confessional was no longer sacrosanct then no-one would ever tell the priest anything like this in confession.
    So it's not as if it would save lots of children from abuse.

    Am saving one kid is far more important than the confessional remaining sacrosanct...Im sure you ll agree. If not why not ?


  • #3945
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You count as 5 of them, as you flipped over and back.
    Knowing the propaganda machine that is RtÉ I wouldnt be surprised


    that is not how TAM ratings work. They are not counting people actually watching. They have a representative panel of tv viewers and extrapolate their viewing into the viewing figures that are released.


  • #3946
    EyesClosed
    Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭EyesClosed


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    that is not how TAM ratings work. They are not counting people actually watching. They have a representative panel of tv viewers and extrapolate their viewing into the viewing figures that are released.

    I don't think that was meant to be taken seriously


  • #3947
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    In fairness it's a card you could only play once (telling the police what was heard in the confession box). Once word got out via the first court case that the confessional was no longer sacrosanct then no-one would ever tell the priest anything like this in confession.
    So it's not as if it would save lots of children from abuse.

    Maybe not loads but possibly some.

    If these priests really believe the teachings of their church then they need to go to confession to be absolved of their sin. The alternative is burning in hell. Ridiculous obviously, but this is the church's teaching.


  • #3948
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    that is not how TAM ratings work. They are not counting people actually watching. They have a representative panel of tv viewers and extrapolate their viewing into the viewing figures that are released.
    Sorry, I was joking.
    Then the data extrapolated is only as accurate as the panel of people who are selected


  • #3949
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,122 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Sorry, I was joking.
    Then the data extrapolated is only as accurate as the panel of people who are selected


    That is true but they've been doing it for a very long time and should be pretty good at it by now.


  • #3950
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Dannyriver wrote: »
    Am saving one kid is far more important than the confessional remaining sacrosanct...Im sure you ll agree. If not why not ?

    I don't particularly want to get into that, the 'if it saves one then whatever the price is it's worth paying' is a bit of a dead end debate.

    What the Church/priests should do is make absolution dependent on the penitent actually going to the authorities, e.g., no more 'say 3 Hail Marys and you are forgiven', instead 'you are forgiven but only if you go to the police and explain it to them and let them decide if theres a criminal case to answer'.
    I think (as a happy agnostic I'm far from an expert on church matters) that this might already be the case for some crimes like murder.


  • #3951
    Dannyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    I don't particularly want to get into that, the 'if it saves one then whatever the price is it's worth paying' is a bit of a dead end debate.

    What the Church/priests should do is make absolution dependent on the penitent actually going to the authorities, e.g., no more 'say 3 Hail Marys and you are forgiven', instead 'you are forgiven but only if you go to the police and explain it to them and let them decide if theres a criminal case to answer'.
    I think (as a happy agnostic I'm far from an expert on church matters) that this might already be the case for some crimes like murder.

    That Im afraid is the only debate when it comes to what you have suggested. For you to avoid it with a platitude like 'dead end debate' is disingenuous.

    Never forget Lord Denning's quote regarding whether the Birmingham six should be given a retrial

    'If they won, it would mean that the police were guilty of perjury; that they were guilty of violence and threats; that the confessions were involuntary and improperly admitted in evidence; and that the convictions were erroneous… That was such an appalling vista that every sensible person would say, ‘It cannot be right that these actions should go any further’.”

    Once the institution/system wrongly sacrifices someone for the good of the system the system is in need of overhaul/undemocratic and corrupt, that s not a dead end argument.


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  • #3952
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    The RCC:

    silly picture

    How insightful :rolleyes:


  • #3953
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    How insightful :rolleyes:

    And honest. However, honesty is not a strong requirement for the RCC.


  • #3954
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 17,973 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    jmayo wrote: »
    I was channel surfing on saturday night and found it on BBC NI, then spotted it on RTE1/2, then found it on Sky News.
    I kept switching back and over to check it was same translator.
    Then watched for a bit to check out how the stadium looked.
    Thankfully didn't come across the Daniel O'D part.

    I haven't a fecking idea what he was talking about, but he had some family from somewhere on stage at one point.

    Have to say Croker looked okish in the dark, but the corporate box section came across as too bright.
    Overall I think it looked better for the opening of Special Olympics.

    So do I count as one of the zealous viewers even if watched just about 15 minutes of it ?

    I was talking to a relative who attended both this and the Phoenix Park one. He really enjoyed the Croker concert but thought the Park was a huge amount of hassle, walking for ages and he's not surprised many people chose to give it a miss on the day.

    It seems everyone who was at Croke Park though had a good evening.


  • #3955
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,078 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    ELM327 wrote: »
    You count as 5 of them, as you flipped over and back.
    Knowing the propaganda machine that is RtI wouldnt be surprised

    Ah feck it ...
    Maybe it's that Samsung Smart TV.
    Strazdas wrote: »
    I was talking to a relative who attended both this and the Phoenix Park one. He really enjoyed the Croker concert but thought the Park was a huge amount of hassle, walking for ages and he's not surprised many people chose to give it a miss on the day.

    It seems everyone who was at Croke Park though had a good evening.

    Ehh I have only two reason to go to Croker.
    One is match and the other is a concert.

    Glad they had a good evening, but really there were a couple of elephants in the room or rather in the stadium.

    One was they just had heterogeneous families and the other is that dragging our kids on stage or presumably talking about happy families is disingenuous in the extreme when the church and pope refuses to really acknowledge how they treated children and how they wrecked families.


  • #3956
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,818 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    jmayo wrote: »
    Ah feck it ...
    Maybe it's that Samsung Smart TV.



    Ehh I have only two reason to go to Croker.
    One is match and the other is a concert.

    Glad they had a good evening, but really there were a couple of elephants in the room or rather in the stadium.

    One was they just had heterogeneous families and the other is that dragging our kids on stage or presumably talking about happy families is disingenuous in the extreme when the church and pope refuses to really acknowledge how they treated children and how they wrecked families.

    I honestly don't know how Roman Catholics can sit in a stadium listening to plamás and patronising nonsense (frankly) from a pope with the image of a young child wearing a gold cross as a signal for other depraved priests in their heads. Or the shocking things involved in the reality of rape and abuse of children.
    I cannot get that detail out of my head since I heard it. How supposedly 'good and christian' people can defeats me. It really does.


  • #3957
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I honestly don't know how Roman Catholics can sit in a stadium listening to plamás and patronising nonsense (frankly) from a pope with the image of a young child wearing a gold cross as a signal for other depraved priests in their heads. Or the shocking things involved in the reality of rape and abuse of children.
    I cannot get that detail out of my head since I heard it. How supposedly 'good and christian' people can defeats me. It really does.

    You'd be encouraging GA, SF and other former IRA members to come clean and name and let all authorities know of the sex abusers they had in their midst that they removed to live elsewhere in god knows where to live?


  • #3958
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,818 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edward M wrote: »
    You'd be encouraging GA, SF and other former IRA members to come clean and name and let all authorities know of the sex abusers they had in their midst that they removed to live elsewhere in god knows where to live?

    I have consistently done that.
    Adams owned up to making a mistake in relation to his brother and testified against him. SF recognised their failings and were the first (Afaik) to put child protection measures in place. His brother is in jail, where he should be.

    Are there any ongoing cases of abuse against the SF organisation? If there is, I call loudly for any information to be handed over.

    I can understand human beings making judgement mistakes - I cannot understand what is happening in the Roman Catholic church though.

    We got a pope, finally publicly stating that the abuse was wrong and abhorrent but zero on the Vatican's role in covering up and actively seeking to suppress.
    We had a pope publicly pontificating on these matters while a story of huge magnitude was breaking in yet another country. And all the while ordinary RC's were playing happy clappy, we love everyone in Croker and the Phoenix PArk.


  • #3959
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I have consistently done that.
    Adams owned up to making a mistake in relation to his brother and testified against him. SF recognised their failings and were the first (Afaik) to put child protection measures in place. His brother is in jail, where he should be.

    Are there any ongoing cases of abuse against the SF organisation? If there is, I call loudly for any information to be handed over.

    I can understand human beings making judgement mistakes - I cannot understand what is happening in the Roman Catholic church though.

    We got a pope, finally publicly stating that the abuse was wrong and abhorrent but zero on the Vatican's role in covering up and actively seeking to suppress.
    We had a pope publicly pontificating on these matters while a story of huge magnitude was breaking in yet another country. And all the while ordinary RC's were playing happy clappy, we love everyone in Croker and the Phoenix PArk.

    Sorry, I know of your posts regarding the defence of GA and SFs position on their issues with sexual abuse, and frankly your position and statements on here seem at odds with that.
    Thanks for your response anyway.


  • #3960
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,818 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edward M wrote: »
    Sorry, I know of your posts regarding the defence of GA and SFs position on their issues with sexual abuse, and frankly your position and statements on here seem at odds with that.
    Thanks for your response anyway.

    If I ever condoned abuse or the cover up of abuse post a link to it.

    Responding to somebody 'using abuse as a political stick' is a different thing. The same type of posters like to use selected victims of the conflict in the same sickening exploitative ways. But then, if you read those threads, you would know that.


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  • #3961
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Distraction from the abuse fished out by the RCC. That’s what’s gong on here now.


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