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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    Quick Plenty, The Quiet Man is just starting on RTE.

    * Ooops, sorry, it's The Pope's Visit To Ireland.

    it would be great if you could find it in your heart to joint the conversation in a different forum :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,072 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    it would be great if you could find it in your heart to joint the conversation in a different forum :)

    You can deny the evidence here as well as anywhere else.

    Can you show where the Vatican have addressed these issues adequately anywhere in the world?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    You can deny the evidence here as well as anywhere else.

    Can you show where the Vatican have addressed these issues adequately anywhere in the world?

    And I go back to my previous post earlier this evening.

    Evidence. :)

    Nite nite Franciebrady.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,072 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    And I go back to my previous post earlier this evening.

    Evidence. :)

    Nite nite Franciebrady.:)

    We have all heard about defenders of the faith like you. Can't say it was a pleasure to actually meet one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    We have all heard about defenders of the faith like you. Can't say it was a pleasure to actually meet one.

    Evidence? :)

    to the topic at hand please?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 54,072 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    Evidence? :)

    to the topic at hand please?

    You got it, you just don't want to deal with on some time barred nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    We have all heard about defenders of the faith like you. Can't say it was a pleasure to actually meet one.

    FrncieBrady, I'll keep posting the issue under discussion no matter how many pages you want to run through.

    The topic, under discussion, is simply, how Pope Francis has buried his head in the sand.
    But you don't appear to be capable of proving that.

    Care to comment?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭ Dannyriver


    and that proves what, exactly, against Pope Francis?

    That he is either wholly incompetent as the CEO of the corporation that is the RCC or that he is lying or that like in all corrupt organisations where the board of directors are under criminal investigation the ones beneath figured he was as well off not knowing about stuff that he might be asked about later.


  • Registered Users Posts: 54,072 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    FrncieBrady, I'll keep posting the issue under discussion no matter how many pages you want to run through.

    The topic, under discussion, is simply, how Pope Francis has buried his head in the sand.
    But you don't appear to be capable of proving that.

    Care to comment?

    Here is what I responded to:~
    When the messenger provides the evidence, they go silent...

    The pope did not deal with repeated attempts by the Vatican tp cover-up and to directly interfere with justice, here in this country.

    I provided links to show that, and you are still in denial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    You got it, you just don't want to deal with on some time barred nonsense.

    Awe FrancieBrady. I didn't think you'd cave in so quickly with such a pathetic response which make no sense to the question posed to you.

    But hey, this is modern day AH- which I appreciate. Truth holds no value here.

    You completely fudge questions FrancieBrady and change the topic of conversation to suit your agenda. But Hey, this is AH- and apparently that's allowed these days on threads. So hey- you WIN the AH CUP.

    Happy now?

    No proper debate but you won a cup:)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 54,072 ✭✭✭✭ FrancieBrady


    Awe FrancieBrady. I didn't think you'd cave in so quickly with such a pathetic response which make no sense to the question posed to you.

    But hey, this is modern day AH- which I appreciate. Truth holds no value here.

    You completely fudge questions FrancieBrady and change the topic of conversation to suit your agenda. But Hey, this is AH- and apparently that's allowed these days on threads. So hey- you WIN the AH CUP.

    Happy now?

    No proper debate but you won a cup:)

    Go to bed Plenty. And come back with something more substantial than that tomorrow.

    There is nobody arsed engaging with your protectionist nonsense on the Christianity forum either - hence your appearance here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    There is nobody arsed engaging with your protectionist nonsense on the Christianity forum either - hence your appearance here.

    You are, darlin;)

    Nite nite :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    So. Just to reiterate the topic currently under discussion considering that AH MODS have deserted this thread and have not imposed any restrictions on what's posted.


    The current discussion is all about this:

    Originally Posted by Hitman3000 View Post
    That as suggested, he (Pope Francis) sticks his head in the sand.

    But it might change tomorrow, and there ya have it!

    Anyone for resurrecting a thread from 2003?

    It seems to be the done thing around here these days!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,472 EdgeCase


    Dannyriver wrote: »
    I d say that had more to to do with the economic benefits kicking in from joining the European Union

    Other small countries did absolutely fine, many of whom had bad histories and limited natural resources.

    You'd have to carry out research in depth, but there was a lot more than simply joining the EU going on around the 1970s.

    Also Ireland utterly floundered in the 1980s, only really taking off in the 1990s, the first generation that was brought up in a relatively normal society in terms of education systems and somewhat more open mindedness.

    The introduction of free second level and then subsidised 3rd level education had profound impacts both in terms of economics and people being able to drive social change.

    The first large scale generation of 3rd level access happened in the early 1970s - that's largely what started the changes here both economically and socially in terms of people questioning dogma and pushing out into roles in civil society.

    If you go back before that, the church had extraordinary control and you'd an elite of private school types, which were largely Catholic versions of British public schools and extremely close to the church, going on to university and ultimately taking high office and driving policy here.

    It was very much an extension of British Edwardian society with the church in the same position as the aristocracy held in England.

    Britian was transformed by social democratic models after WWII, free education, the NHS, etc in parallel with most of Western Europe.

    Ireland lagged behind with most of these things, still leaving many of those services in the hands of charities and trusts (the church).

    My view of it is that you're seeing Ireland now transforming as rapidly as Britian and others did several decades ago - hence all the rapid social change, broadening of minds, casting aside of dogma.

    Many now very liberal European countries have histories of quite dismal conservatism.

    It's not so much of a revolution that's unique to Ireland but, like a compressed catching up with the later part of the 20th century and leaping ahead. We are probably on a trajectory toward being an extremely progressive country as a result of the timing of that.

    You see parallels with Spain, which went through a very similar transformation from ultra conservative place to one of the most socially progressive places in the world too.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Skylinehead


    So. Just to reiterate the topic currently under discussion considering that AH MODS have deserted this thread and have not imposed any restrictions on what's posted.


    The current discussion is all about this:

    Originally Posted by Hitman3000 View Post
    That as suggested, he (Pope Francis) sticks his head in the sand.

    But it might change tomorrow, and there ya have it!

    Anyone for resurrecting a thread from 2003?

    It seems to be the done thing around here these days!
    Can you stop the backseat modding? Immediately.

    It's about the Popes visit and all the discussion points that that entails.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,096 ✭✭✭ PlentyOhToole


    Nixonbot wrote: »
    Can you stop the backseat modding? Immediately.

    It's about the Popes visit and all the discussion points that that entails.

    Thread title is “Who’s going to see the Pope?” Considering the Popes visit has ended, you might wish to clarify what’s permissible now in this thread, and what’s not?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭ hatrickpatrick


    Thread title is “Who’s going to see the Pope?” Considering the Popes visit has ended, you might wish to clarify what’s permissible now in this thread, and what’s not?

    How about we just change it to "So who went to see the Pope?"

    This is a moot point anyway - once Freshpopcorn gets wind of someone complaining about the thread title, all kinds of amusing shenanigans will begin, and it'll be all your fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,459 ✭✭✭ Bubbaclaus


    Evidence? :)

    to the topic at hand please?

    Here's an article from yesterday, so perfectly up to date for you:

    Pope Francis silent on Catholic Church sex scandal amid calls for his resignation

    https://www.vox.com/2018/8/28/17787810/catholic-church-pope-francis-resign-politics-vigano-letter-schism


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,274 UsedToWait


    You are, darlin;)

    Nite nite :p

    Nice attempt at getting the thread shut down, and nice Jesuitical sh1te about only wanting to debate the matter at hand.

    The matter at hand is how your organization systematically raped robbed abused and desecrated, and covered it up from the highest level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭ erica74


    So. Just to reiterate the topic currently under discussion considering that AH MODS have deserted this thread and have not imposed any restrictions on what's posted.

    Report the thread, contact an AH mod.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭ hatrickpatrick


    erica74 wrote: »
    Report the thread, contact an AH mod.

    worldburn-top.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,536 ✭✭✭✭ Hotblack Desiato


    UsedToWait wrote: »
    Nice attempt at getting the thread shut down, and nice Jesuitical sh1te about only wanting to debate the matter at hand.

    Not only that but they want to have a "debate" in their safe-space forum where dissent is not tolerated and dissenters banned.

    If you want proof that religion doesn't stand up to any sort of scrutiny, look at the charters for the religion forums :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭ Dannyriver


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Other small countries did absolutely fine, many of whom had bad histories and limited natural resources.

    You'd have to carry out research in depth, but there was a lot more than simply joining the EU going on around the 1970s.

    Also Ireland utterly floundered in the 1980s, only really taking off in the 1990s, the first generation that was brought up in a relatively normal society in terms of education systems and somewhat more open mindedness.

    The introduction of free second level and then subsidised 3rd level education had profound impacts both in terms of economics and people being able to drive social change.

    The first large scale generation of 3rd level access happened in the early 1970s - that's largely what started the changes here both economically and socially in terms of people questioning dogma and pushing out into roles in civil society.

    If you go back before that, the church had extraordinary control and you'd an elite of private school types, which were largely Catholic versions of British public schools and extremely close to the church, going on to university and ultimately taking high office and driving policy here.

    It was very much an extension of British Edwardian society with the church in the same position as the aristocracy held in England.

    Britian was transformed by social democratic models after WWII, free education, the NHS, etc in parallel with most of Western Europe.

    Ireland lagged behind with most of these things, still leaving many of those services in the hands of charities and trusts (the church).

    My view of it is that you're seeing Ireland now transforming as rapidly as Britian and others did several decades ago - hence all the rapid social change, broadening of minds, casting aside of dogma.

    Many now very liberal European countries have histories of quite dismal conservatism.

    It's not so much of a revolution that's unique to Ireland but, like a compressed catching up with the later part of the 20th century and leaping ahead. We are probably on a trajectory toward being an extremely progressive country as a result of the timing of that.

    You see parallels with Spain, which went through a very similar transformation from ultra conservative place to one of the most socially progressive places in the world too.

    I wasn t suggesting that the EU was the only reason but foreign investment as a result of joining the EU had a huge part to play.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭ ToddyDoody


    The three things that drive people to madness

    Money / power
    Sex and, in this case,
    Religion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭ jmayo


    When we learned the pope was not familiar with Magdalene Laundries or Industrial schools when he met abuse survivors.

    This was 4 days ago. Did you forget?

    and that proves what, exactly, against Pope Francis?

    As Dannyriver pointed out it points to the pope being a complete liar as he has already met someone a number of years ago that was in a Mother and Baby home and who worked in a convent laundry.

    Now surely he was briefed for that meeting about the Irish mother and baby homes and by extension the Magdalene Laundries or does he just wing it ala Trump.
    Even if he has just watched the movie he would have a fecking idea.

    Now even if his memory is slipping, he was no doubt briefed prior to his meeting this week as there is no way in hell he would just walk into such a meeting without some background and there was huge debate about even having such a meeting for weeks.
    Again it makes him out to be a liar.

    And there is no way in hell that he hasn't been informed of the whole sorry mess somewhere along the way.

    And if he is such a liar then surely he should not be head of the RCC.

    If he seriously can't remember any of the above then he is not compos mentis and shouldn't be in charge either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,427 ✭✭✭✭ jmayo


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    Other small countries did absolutely fine, many of whom had bad histories and limited natural resources.

    You'd have to carry out research in depth, but there was a lot more than simply joining the EU going on around the 1970s.

    Also Ireland utterly floundered in the 1980s, only really taking off in the 1990s, the first generation that was brought up in a relatively normal society in terms of education systems and somewhat more open mindedness.

    There was a world wide recession in early 80s which had an effect here, but we also had the fallout from how fianna fail had bought the 1977 election.
    The US under reagan and Britain under thatcher came out of it much earlier than us.
    A lot of the seeds of our boom in the 1990s were set by the economic policies adopted by haughey's government in 1987 all backed by fine gael with the Tallaght Strategy.

    Also having tech leaders like Microsoft, Apple, Wang site here in the 1980s and Digital, Analog Devices, etc in the 1970s, began to bear fruit when we got Intel, Dell, Gateway in the early 1990s.
    That was really copperfastening us as a location for the modern tech companies.

    There were major social changes in Ireland in the 1980s where Garrett Fitzgeralds governments began to put referendums to the people about divorce and abortion.

    It just happened that the beginning of the boom in the 90s coincided with the first public cracks appearing in the catholic church with the bishop casey story and brendan smyth.
    Then the floodgates opened.
    EdgeCase wrote: »
    The introduction of free second level and then subsidised 3rd level education had profound impacts both in terms of economics and people being able to drive social change.

    The first large scale generation of 3rd level access happened in the early 1970s - that's largely what started the changes here both economically and socially in terms of people questioning dogma and pushing out into roles in civil society.

    Ehh I think I said this already.
    Education is the key.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Giraffe Box


    And I go back to my previous post earlier this evening.

    Evidence. :)

    Nite nite Franciebrady.:)

    The irony of any religious adherent demanding 'evidence' is delicious.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭ kunst nugget


    Given the cultural impact the 1979 visit had, can you see anyone talking about this visit in the same manner as they have about that over the next 30 plus years?


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,697 ✭✭✭✭ ohnonotgmail


    The irony of any religious adherent demanding 'evidence' is delicious.


    and then ignoring any evidence that does not fit with their beliefs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,260 ✭✭✭✭ ELM327


    Given the cultural impact the 1979 visit had, can you see anyone talking about this visit in the same manner as they have about that over the next 30 plus years?
    Yes, it will be looked back on as the day the irish society woke up to the abuse and atrocity committed by the RCC.
    RCC numbers will never be as high as they are today, which are an all time low currently.

    Each day going forward is the worst day ever for the RCC numbers in Ireland, and for that I am thankful.


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