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Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

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    #3032
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,858 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    From what I heard (from the latest Missed Apex podcast, IIRC), Ocon would have breached some sort of clearance line from the top of the McLaren's nosecone to the roll hoop.


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    #3033
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Was there any investigation into Mercedes flexy rear wing last Sunday?

    https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1033791752216473605


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    #3034
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    vectra wrote: »
    Was there any investigation into Mercedes flexy rear wing last Sunday?

    https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1033791752216473605

    Thats not flexing though, thats shaking as the car hits the curb, all cars will do that more or less depending on where they hot and how hard they hot the curb.

    Not only that but a wing moving like that wouldn't be much of an advantage really.

    Also looks like Leclerc got a run in this years Ferrari at Monza already this year - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/leclerc-drove-2018-ferrari-in-july-monza-run/3166841/?nrt=54


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    #3035
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Gintonious wrote: »
    Thats not flexing though, thats shaking as the car hits the curb, all cars will do that more or less depending on where they hot and how hard they hot the curb.

    Not only that but a wing moving like that wouldn't be much of an advantage really.

    Also looks like Leclerc got a run in this years Ferrari at Monza already this year - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/leclerc-drove-2018-ferrari-in-july-monza-run/3166841/?nrt=54

    Did you look at the whole video?
    That rear wing was moving like crazy
    the rest of the cars barely moved.
    Also
    When it is able to move like that, How do you know it doesn't bend enough under speed to reduce drag and give them a bit of a speed boost?


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    #3036
    Inviere
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Inviere


    vectra wrote: »
    Did you look at the whole video?
    That rear wing was moving like crazy
    the rest of the cars barely moved.
    Also
    When it is able to move like that, How do you know it doesn't bend enough under speed to reduce drag and give them a bit of a speed boost?

    The Red Bull looked like it was made of jelly on corner entry in that video. The above is right, all these cars pass load tests etc, it's more to do with entry angle/kerb/velocity I'd say.

    Retro Computers/Consoles Repair/Restoration List



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    #3037
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Maybe both of ye should get in touch with Arrivabene and tell him there is nothing to worry about then.?


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    #3038
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    The load tests aren't realistic to real life conditions. The designers know this and will design accordingly. That's why Red Bull had such a flexi front wing years ago. The static load tests were not good enough.


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    #3039
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Perez in talks with McLaren.

    http://www.skysports.com/share/11484194


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    #3040
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    I'm extremely sceptical, he'd be absolutely mental to go back to Mclaren for two reasons. 1 they crapped all over him last time and 2 he already has a contract option with Force India who are a better team. It would be a step backwards for him


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    #3041
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I'm extremely sceptical, he'd be absolutely mental to go back to Mclaren for two reasons. 1 they crapped all over him last time and 2 he already has a contract option with Force India who are a better team. It would be a step backwards for him

    I wonder has Christian Wolff (No not Toto Horner) put a sweetner in the deal with Force India to keep Ocon on board and sort out the Perez contract so he can join McLaren?

    After all the Mercedes/Force India tie up looks like becoming one of Ferrari & Haas and with Ocon being on the books of Mercedes it would make sense for both parties but not Perez.

    Going from Force India to McLaren now is like when Jacques Villeneuve left Williams to join B.A.R.


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    #3042
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    vectra wrote: »
    Did you look at the whole video?
    That rear wing was moving like crazy
    the rest of the cars barely moved.
    Also
    When it is able to move like that, How do you know it doesn't bend enough under speed to reduce drag and give them a bit of a speed boost?

    I did look at the video above, thats why I told you what I did. The cars shake a lot when they hit curbs, it will always move when there is a shock to the car.

    If you have evidence of it moving under load in straight lines then by all means post that, and if it does the cars have already passed the stress tests.


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    #3043
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Classic Belgium from 1999, I remember it well.


    https://twitter.com/1990sF1/status/1034510369165860864


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    #3044
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    Classic Belgium from 1999, I remember it well.


    https://twitter.com/1990sF1/status/1034510369165860864

    My god, that really was a horrible car.


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    #3045
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    Ferrari and Mercedes have too much control over the driver market and teams for my liking. In most other sports it's a conflict of interest and against the rules.


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    #3046
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Gintonious wrote: »
    My god, that really was a horrible car.

    All because the FIA refused to let them run the separate liveries on the cars.


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    #3047
    AMKC
    Registered Users Posts: 15,729 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    Classic Belgium from 1999, I remember it well.


    https://twitter.com/1990sF1/status/1034510369165860864

    They both must have had zero fear and a lot of faith in there cars to keep them safe to do that.


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    #3048
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    AMKC wrote: »
    They both must have had zero fear and a lot of faith in there cars to keep them safe to do that.

    Villeneuve clearly learned nothing from the year before


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    #3049
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users Posts: 11,318 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    All because the FIA refused to let them run the separate liveries on the cars.

    The livery was the least of its worries, mechanically it was a pure donkey.

    Crazy to think that that same team is now Mercedes...


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    #3050
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Gintonious wrote: »
    The livery was the least of its worries, mechanically it was a pure donkey.

    Crazy to think that that same team is now Mercedes...

    The entire package was rubbish.

    Adrian Reynard maintained they could have won the first race yet Villeneuve retired from the opening 9 straight races.

    Yeah they are indeed Mercedes.

    Tyrrell to B.A.R to Honda to Brawn to Mercedes.


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    #3051
    vectra
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭vectra


    Gintonious wrote: »
    I did look at the video above, thats why I told you what I did. The cars shake a lot when they hit curbs, it will always move when there is a shock to the car.

    If you have evidence of it moving under load in straight lines then by all means post that, and if it does the cars have already passed the stress tests.


    I honestly cannot for the life of me see Red Bull rear wing wobbling like the Mercedes one does,!

    As for having evidence ?

    Did I suggest somewhere It does move under load?

    To answer that question.
    I would have as much evidence that it does move as you would have that it does not move under load.

    Perhaps you could show us evidence that it does not move?


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    #3052
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,078 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    skipper_G wrote: »
    I'm extremely sceptical, he'd be absolutely mental to go back to Mclaren for two reasons. 1 they crapped all over him last time and 2 he already has a contract option with Force India who are a better team. It would be a step backwards for him

    It depends on how FI did while they were in administration. If you were a FI team member over the last year, you’d have known about the financial uncertainty and would be looking at other options. And when the tm goes into administration there’s a great opportunity for other teams to offer deals to poach staff.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if FI will struggle for a year or two to recover from administration. McLaren might be the better of two evils for Perez.


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    #3053
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,078 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Prisoner 6753 wrote: »
    Gintonious wrote: »
    My god, that really was a horrible car.

    All because the FIA refused to let them run the separate liveries on the cars.

    Either 555 or lucky strike livery cars would have been nice. I would t have had a problem with teams having separate liveries. It would distinguish between the drivers but it would mean there are potentially up to 20 separate liveries.

    It might encourage more sponsors into the sport if they could be title sponsor on an individual car rather than the entire team. Martini might get to advertise 2 separate products which is surely more appealing than advertising the same product on both cars.


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    #3054
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Either 555 or lucky strike livery cars would have been nice. I would t have had a problem with teams having separate liveries. It would distinguish between the drivers but it would mean there are potentially up to 20 separate liveries.

    It might encourage more sponsors into the sport if they could be title sponsor on an individual car rather than the entire team. Martini might get to advertise 2 separate products which is surely more appealing than advertising the same product on both cars.

    555 was the better looking livery of the 2 when it was rarely displayed in its own right. Only happened a few times though.


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    #3055
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It depends on how FI did while they were in administration. If you were a FI team member over the last year, you’d have known about the financial uncertainty and would be looking at other options. And when the tm goes into administration there’s a great opportunity for other teams to offer deals to poach staff.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if FI will struggle for a year or two to recover from administration. McLaren might be the better of two evils for Perez.

    Sainz has signed a 2 year deal with Mclaren. Norris is being lined up for the drive, if not for 2019 definitely for 2020. That means whomever is in the second Mclaren seat next year is nothing more than a stop gap and they get a 1 year deal with no chance for a long term future.


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    #3056
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    skipper_G wrote: »
    Sainz has signed a 2 year deal with Mclaren. Norris is being lined up for the drive, if not for 2019 definitely for 2020. That means whomever is in the second Mclaren seat next year is nothing more than a stop gap and they get a 1 year deal with no chance for a long term future.

    Ocon? he would then replace Bottas in Merc.


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    #3057
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    OSI wrote: »
    Ocon to go to McLaren in deal that see's McLaren receiving Mercedes engines in exchange for providing Ocon with a seat until a Merc one becomes available. Ocon winds WDC in first year at McLaren in the same year Alonso fails to podium at the Indy 500.

    The only viable part of all of that might be Ocon to Mercedes to replace Bottas. Don't see Mercedes supplying McLaren again.


    McLaren pointed the finger too much when they really should have been looking in the mirror for blame in relation to their on track performances.

    Zak Brown privately regrets not joining the FIA now I bet.


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    #3058
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    Wolff has talked recently about the role Bottas has and how he may have to decide to push him towards a support role that helps Hamilton win the championship. He stated it's something he doesn't like doing but depending how Monza goes they may need to begin "pulling all force behind one driver".

    I know this goes on all the time, rampant during Michael and Ruben's partnership, but I do feel for Bottas. When he first joined Mercedes many saw him as a driver who would push Hamilton, similar to Nico. He had a good year last year but it hasn't been clicking this season.

    He just turned 29 yesterday. Not really the point of a driver's career where they want to fall down to the role of support driver. I think perhaps Ricciardo saw that coming for him so went to Renault.


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    #3059
    ayux4rj6zql2ph
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ayux4rj6zql2ph


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    Wolff has talked recently about the role Bottas has and how he may have to decide to push him towards a support role that helps Hamilton win the championship. He stated it's something he doesn't like doing but depending how Monza goes they may need to begin "pulling all force behind one driver".

    I know this goes on all the time, rampant during Michael and Ruben's partnership, but I do feel for Bottas. When he first joined Mercedes many saw him as a driver who would push Hamilton, similar to Nico. He had a good year last year but it hasn't been clicking this season.

    He just turned 29 yesterday. Not really the point of a driver's career where they want to fall down to the role of support driver. I think perhaps Ricciardo saw that coming for him so went to Renault.

    The writing for Bottas has been on the wall for a while in terms of a #2 role. The team orders issued earlier in the season just confirmed what we all knew. Kimi has been a #2 pretty much since the day he rejoined Ferrari, but the team radio in Germany was classic, he forced them to say it publicly.


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    #3060
    skipper_G
    Registered Users Posts: 14,626 ✭✭✭✭skipper_G


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    Wolff has talked recently about the role Bottas has and how he may have to decide to push him towards a support role that helps Hamilton win the championship. He stated it's something he doesn't like doing but depending how Monza goes they may need to begin "pulling all force behind one driver".

    I know this goes on all the time, rampant during Michael and Ruben's partnership, but I do feel for Bottas. When he first joined Mercedes many saw him as a driver who would push Hamilton, similar to Nico. He had a good year last year but it hasn't been clicking this season.

    He just turned 29 yesterday. Not really the point of a driver's career where they want to fall down to the role of support driver. I think perhaps Ricciardo saw that coming for him so went to Renault.

    Publicly Mercedes can say whatever they want, the reality is Bottas is nothing but a number 2 driver and everyone knows it, even Bottas. Toto referring to him as a wingman after Hungary should have stoked the fires in Bottas, if he's not able to motivate himself and push his level of performance closer to Hamilton's in equal machinery then he doesn't deserve anything more.


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    #3061
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Adamocovic wrote: »
    Wolff has talked recently about the role Bottas has and how he may have to decide to push him towards a support role that helps Hamilton win the championship. He stated it's something he doesn't like doing but depending how Monza goes they may need to begin "pulling all force behind one driver".

    In other words they will officially tell him what they already told him during German GP. It's complete bs from Wolff, it's totally clear who is no. 1 in Mercedes and it's totally clear who is no. 1 in Ferrari. I think Webber said that when he was offered Ferrari deal that there was nothing in the contract about him being no. 2. Does anyone believe he would have equal status to Alonso? Merc are the same, they might say their drivers have equal status but in reality they will concentrate on one. Rosberg was maybe slightly more equal because he added brains to Hamilton's talent and he was in the team before but Bottas is no way on equal status.


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