Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Unchopped · 26-08-2018 07:03AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/thousands-watch-pope-francis-travel-through-dublin-in-popemobile-1.3608010

That's thousands. Not 10s of thousands & nowhere near the 100'000 expected people to line the route. What a complete waste of money & I feel for the city business that lost money yesterday due to this.

I have noticed the lack of the Gardai giving an estimate on the numbers as the usually would on such occasions. The only other time I recall the Gardai not giving a figure was under government orders when 100'000 people protested the water meters. Wow. There were 3 or four times more water meter protesters than came to see the pope. Interesting

Yes, interesting. So there is 3 or 4 times more degenerate wasters in the country than there is people going to see the Pope.

ELM327 · 26-08-2018 07:21AM

Unchopped wrote: »

Yes, interesting. So there is 3 or 4 times more degenerate wasters in the country than there is people going to see the Pope.

So, to surmise

Attending the freedom of expression demonstration against a political decision - bad
Attending an event for the head paedophile - good

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 07:22AM

Unchopped wrote: »

Yes, interesting. So there is 3 or 4 times more degenerate wasters in the country than there is people going to see the Pope.

In Fairness there was a big difference between the threatening scumbags protesting in housing estates looking for their 15 minute youtube fame & the Dublin city protest that brought over 100,000 to the city. That protest had respectable working & middle class old & young. There were public & private sector workers protestors in Dublin that day. They wern't the "degenerate wasters" that you might thing them to be though they were there too. I fully agree that a large portion of people protesting in estates on a daily basis were "degenerate wasters" but it would be very wrong to suggest that tha 100,000 people in Dublin city that day were "degenerate wasters"

EDIT: Obama & Clinton got much bigger turnout than the holy father

Anyway call them what you will. Point is it seems Water meters are more important to Dubliners than the Pope visit. It says a lot about the fabled 78 percent of Catholics in Ireland.

pjohnson · 26-08-2018 08:21AM

ELM327 wrote: »

So, to surmise
Attending the freedom of expression demonstration against a political decision - bad

Attending an event for the head paedophile - good

Oh so AH likes the the likes of Paul Murphy & the water protestors now?

ELM327 · 26-08-2018 08:34AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Oh so AH likes the the likes of Paul Murphy & the water protestors now?

Not the issue, but the right of free political assembly to peacefully protest is an important right regardless if you agree or disagree with the issue.

26-08-2018 08:36AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Oh so AH likes the the likes of Paul Murphy & the water protestors now?

nothing that boards wont bring back to the water meters eventually!

ppl not showing to see the pope is not a conspiracy. anyone who needs to see it that way has a strange agenda. the govt didnt plan route and security based on free ticket numbers ffs.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 09:00AM

Looks like they got lucky with the weather. Its been bucketing rain here in Dublin since about 4am & the radar suggests that the worst is now over Wales. It might be dry for the mass this afternoon after all

Fighting Tao · 26-08-2018 09:01AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Looks like they got lucky with the weather. Its been bucketing rain here in Dublin since about 4am & the radar suggests that the worst is now over Wales. It might be dry for the mass this afternoon after all

It’ll probably be slippy in the park. Lots of elderly broken ankles could be the reward for being able to attend.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 09:07AM

Well they have a makeshift morgue so I would assume that they have plenty of medics on standby

Edit : the ground is still hard as rock in Dublin due to the lack of rain. I'm not sure how slippy it will be

Fighting Tao · 26-08-2018 09:11AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Well they have a makeshift morgue so I would assume that they have plenty of medics on standby

Yep they are preparing for the worst.

Illness and injury today may cause a fair bit of stress on the health service over the coming months with follow up appointments.

Leroy42 · 26-08-2018 09:25AM

Does anybody have any info on how much the CC has spent over the last, say, 30 years on the defence and cover up of child rape? I have read, for haven't done any research myself, that it is in the $bns.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 09:52AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Does anybody have any info on how much the CC has spent over the last, say, 30 years on the defence and cover up of child rape? I have read, for haven't done any research myself, that it is in the $bns.

Doesn't cost the church much in Ireland. Michael Woods capped the churches liability at 127 million. The state picks up the tab for the rest

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/woods-and-church-stand-by-redress-deal-92504.html

I always rated him as a good politician but he sold out the taxpayer in favor of the church big time :mad:

Edward M · 26-08-2018 09:59AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Doesn't cost the church much in Ireland. Michael Woods capped the churches liability at 127 million. The state picks up the tab for the rest

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/woods-and-church-stand-by-redress-deal-92504.html

I always rated him as a good politician but he sold out the taxpayer in favor of the church big time :mad:

That'd be the compensation cost. I'm quite sure legal costs and costs associated with covering up and private pay offs for silence wouldn't be included.
Just looking at TV now, it looks like knock is welcoming him with open arms.
Many people see this as their chance to honor and see the pope, perhaps many put him above the scandals that have tarnished the church?

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 10:06AM

My mother, a devout Roman Catholic, who felt terribly let down by the hierarchy towards the end of her life tbh, would always tell us if we told a lie it would require more and more lies and would basically consume us.
It may be the case that this Pope comes undone for not following that basic principle:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/world/europe/pope-sex-abuse-barros-karadima.html

ROME — Things keep getting worse for Pope Francis.

Late last month, the pope reiterated his defense of a Chilean bishop, contending that he had never received any complaints that the prelate knew of abuse by the country’s most notorious pedophile priest.

But on Monday, The Associated Press reported that the pope personally received an eight-page letter in 2015 from one of the victims. The letter explicitly detailed abuses the victim said were witnessed by other clerics, including Juan Barros Madrid, who was appointed bishop of Osorno, Chile, that year.

The report that one of the pope’s top advisers had personally handed him the letter has revived accusations by advocates for abuse victims that the 81-year-old pontiff cannot, or will not, understand an issue that has long roiled the Roman Catholic Church.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 10:09AM

The church does not have to fight these cases. They have already paid out the 127 million. You can sue them all you want but they don't have to pay out. The state has to pay out. Why would they even bother defending. If any cases are being fought you can be sure that the state pays for the legal costs.

"perhaps many put him above the scandals that have tarnished the church"

If they do they don't read the news. El Papa tried to silence the chilli abuse victims while he had evidence that they were telling the truth. This was less than six months ago. He had to admit that it was wrong & apologised to the victims. He is part of the cover up in the church.

He failed to apologise yesterday in his speech to the victims here in Ireland.

Edit Franciebrady got there before me.

This pope is as corrupt as the rest of the church. That is very obvious

work · 26-08-2018 10:16AM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's not even that. There's a stink of homophobia trying to link a gay man to pedophilea

........... So there is undeniably a link between homosexuality and paedophilia I'm afraid.

.

SICK POST.It is not an easy path being gay. paedophilia is a serious disorder and homosexuality is completely normal. It is beyond repugnant to link the two and to be honest you should apologise to everyone you have insulted. As a straight male your assertion sickens me.

Leroy42 · 26-08-2018 10:17AM

The church has to defend. They have the original costs of the cover up itself, and then all the cases so far have shown that the church actively defends itself all the way. They never admit, never give in. That all costs money.

Its not jut the €127m.

Leroy42 · 26-08-2018 10:19AM

work wrote: »

.

SICK POST.It is not an easy path being gay. paedophilia is a serious disorder and homosexuality is completely normal. It is beyond repugnant to link the two and to be honest you should apologise to everyone you have insulted. As a straight male your assertion sickens me.

I wonder where this idea that homosexuality is not normal came from?

Maybe from the organisation that seems to have difficulty in working out if child rape is really a crime or not and didn't report it because they couldn't understand if it was wrong or not!

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 10:24AM

work wrote: »

.

SICK POST.It is not an easy path being gay. paedophilia is a serious disorder and homosexuality is completely normal. It is beyond repugnant to link the two and to be honest you should apologise to everyone you have insulted. As a straight male your assertion sickens me.

I want to make it totally clear that I agree with you 100 percent. I was linked in your quote & I don't want anyone half reading your post to think that I think in such a warped homophobic manor. Gay men are men attracted to men. Pedophiles are attracted to male & female children.

It sickened me to see both in the same sentence

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 10:30AM

Leroy42 wrote: »

The church has to defend. They have the original costs of the cover up itself, and then all the cases so far have shown that the church actively defends itself all the way. They never admit, never give in. That all costs money.

Its not jut the €127m.

No. In Ireland the church is no longer liable. They don't have to defend. They don't care how much it costs the taxpayer.

TBH I don't see how cover ups cost much money either. Getting children to sign a document, without their parents present, swearing never to tell another living person about the abuse doesn't cost a lot of money.

Now when you talk outside Ireland it's a different matter. The church will be taken to the cleaners in the states. I could see it costing over a billion over there.

Sycamore Tree · 26-08-2018 10:46AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

Does anybody have any info on how much the CC has spent over the last, say, 30 years on the defence and cover up of child rape? I have read, for haven't done any research myself, that it is in the $bns.

Doesn't cost the church much in Ireland. Michael Woods capped the churches liability at 127 million. The state picks up the tab for the rest

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/woods-and-church-stand-by-redress-deal-92504.html

I always rated him as a good politician but he sold out the taxpayer in favor of the church big time :mad:

Yes this was a criminal act and Fianna Fail should be reminded of it constantly. Woods was a devout Catholic and gave Rome a great deal.

Sycamore Tree · 26-08-2018 11:01AM

Breaking story in USA could make things very tricky for the Pope.

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/08/26/ex-papal-envoy-to-us-calls-on-pope-to-resign-saying-he-knew-about-mccarrick/

DUBLIN - Just hours after Pope Francis condemned the “repugnant crimes” of sexual abuse by clergy during his two-day trip to Ireland, news broke in the United States that a former papal ambassador to the country is accusing Pope Francis of having known about abuse allegations against former Cardinal Theodore McCarrick and failing to act.

More than that, Italian Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò asserts that Francis actually repealed sanctions imposed on McCarrick by Pope emeritus Benedict XVI in the late 2000s, despite the fact that Viganò personally briefed Francis in June 2013 about McCarrick and the charges of misconduct and abuse.

“In this extremely dramatic moment for the universal Church, he must acknowledge his mistakes and, in keeping with the proclaimed principle of zero tolerance, Pope Francis must be the first to set a good example to Cardinals and Bishops who covered up McCarrick’s abuses and resign along with all of them,” he wrote.

Viganò served as the Papal Nuncio to the United States from October 2011 to April 2016, serving both Popes Benedict and Francis.

In the statement, Viganò said he met the newly elected Pope Francis on June 23, 2013, about McCarrick, the former archbishop of both Newark and Washington D.C., who resigned last month over claims he sexually abused seminary students and an altar boy.

Vigano said he told Francis about the allegations: “HolyFather, I don’t know if you know Cardinal McCarrick, but if you ask the Congregation for Bishops there is a dossier this thick about him. He corrupted generations of seminarians and priests and Pope Benedict ordered him to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.”

If true, the pope's credibility is already shot and yesterdays statements were hypocrisy.

ELM327 · 26-08-2018 11:06AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

If true, the pope's credibility is already shot and yesterdays statements were hypocrisy.

To be honest this was already the case.
RCC have been paedophile enablers for centuries, they don't care.
It's getting to the stage where people are going to develop apathy.

work · 26-08-2018 11:08AM

Meet at the garden of remembrance today in solidarity for abuse victims.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/thousands-expected-at-solidarity-event-in-dublin-for-victims-of-clerical-abuse-1.3604440

More important and a lot more interesting than the cult meeting in the park.

Hope there is a really good turn out to show the politicians where public support is.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 11:11AM

Sycamore Tree wrote:

If true, the pope's credibility is already shot and yesterdays statements were hypocrisy.

His statement yesterday and his statements on the chilli bishop and victims don't add up anyway. His comments & his actions or in this case lack of action are at polar opposites. I knew yesterday when he gave his speech that he was being a hypocrite. This article merely reinforces my opinion.

TCM · 26-08-2018 11:13AM

Fighting Tao wrote:

Have a look at those 24 hour news channels and watch for aerial footage. If you take your blinkers off youâ€™ll see it was nowhere near what you think from being at street level.

I'm wearing no blinkers, I saw what I saw 4/5 deep along the route. However it's very disappointing for the haters to see such a warm welcome being given to the pope.

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 11:16AM

TCM wrote: »

I'm wearing no blinkers, I saw what I saw 4/5 deep along the route. However it's very disappointing for the haters to see such a warm welcome being given to the pope.

Does the news coming out of America, make you feel any differently about the man?

If it is true, do you feel completely conned? Because you should, any normal person would.

Fighting Tao · 26-08-2018 11:20AM

TCM wrote: »

I'm wearing no blinkers, I saw what I saw 4/5 deep along the route. However it's very disappointing for the haters to see such a warm welcome being given to the pope.

There were a few key points where it was like that. However, look at the aerial footage as it tells a different story. You saw what you wanted to see.

Seth Brundle · 26-08-2018 11:21AM

So there was abuse of seminarians and an altar boy but all Ratzinger did was to order him "to withdraw to a life of prayer and penance.”
More covering up the truth to avoid any scandal against the business.

ricero · 26-08-2018 11:26AM

Great to hear that Pope Francis met some of the abuse victims and also apologised today in Knock. Hopefully the first steps in the catholic church reforming and bringing justice to the victims.

Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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