Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Strazdas · 26-08-2018 12:09AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It was a Saturday. Most of the crowd would already have been in town anyway.

Turnout was that bad that I don't believe that the streets should have been shut down for it.

All they needed was to close o connell Street to Christchurch for 30 minutes. Crowds appeared at the barrier minutes before the Pope and disburse within minutes of his passing.

They had to shut down the roads for a lot longer than 30 minutes. There simply had to be crowd control barriers and Gardai all along the route. If someone was to try and attack the Popemobile, everyone would be saying 'Where the hell was the security?'. It just would not be possible to secure the route like that in the space of 30 minutes or an hour.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 12:10AM

Sweetemotion wrote:

Have you got my ips? Big Internet guy.

Why would I need your address. It's not me that kiddy fiddling suggestions have been made about.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:13AM

ixoy wrote:

But it's the Pope who gets to define Catholicism and most people aren't close to meeting it. I would also be curious as to exactly how many truly believe, for example, that the Holy Communion wafer becomes the actual body of Christ and not merely symbolic.

Most people aren't close to meeting the Pope either if today's turnout is anything to go by

26-08-2018 12:17AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Why is that? Maybe I’m missing the point

Because their number of claimed practising RC's would be a fraction of the 78% of what it was in last one

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:23AM

Strazdas wrote:

They had to shut down the roads for a lot longer than 30 minutes. There simply had to be crowd control barriers and Gardai all along the route. If someone was to try and attack the Popemobile, everyone would be saying 'Where the hell was the security?'. It just would not be possible to secure the route like that in the space of 30 minutes or an hour.

For what crowd? That's the point. All they needed was to close from o connell Street to Christchurch. After that a Garda escort at speed. Everyone that turned out to see him could have easily fitted into that section.

They could have kept the disruption to a minimum. Someone wants to know what's it matter if a la Catholics put down RC on the census. Well because of this the government believes that 78 percent are catholic. Because of this misinformation they expected about 5 times more people than turned up today. Shutting the the city when there was no need to do so.

We've had presidents from the states visit, get bigger crowd & still the city didn't come to a standstill.

Skylinehead · 26-08-2018 12:24AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I just reminded the poster that isp's are not secure considering he/she was making allegations against Freddie Mercury. It was friendly advice.

What even is this? Stop it immediately, any more down that road and the admins will come down on you like a bag of spuds.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 12:26AM

Nixonbot wrote:

What even is this? Stop it immediately, any more down that road and the admins will come down on you like a bag of spuds.

Apologies, I just don't like Freddie's memory dragged through the muck.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:30AM

Hitman3000 wrote:

Apologies, I just don't like Freddie's memory dragged through the muck.

It's not even that. There's a stink of homophobia trying to link a gay man to pedophilea

Skylinehead · 26-08-2018 12:30AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Apologies, I just don't like Freddie's memory dragged through the muck.

That's fine, but posts about IPs and ISPs is getting very legal and will not end well. Now, moving on.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 12:31AM

Sleeper12 wrote:

It's not even that. There's a stink of homophobia trying to link a gay man to pedophilea

So what Freddie was gay, he liked guys not kids.

Whiplash85 · 26-08-2018 12:39AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

It's not even that. There's a stink of homophobia trying to link a gay man to pedophilea

Suppressed sexuality where homosexuals couldnt openly express themselves lead to this uncomfortable truth and elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. We as a nation treated homosexuals as criminals and ultimately this drove these people to suicide, abroad to more tolerant society’s and unfortunately a large cabal to catholic institutions where they had free rein and were seen as authority figures. Many have or had this Peter Pan syndrome where they never grew up emotionally or sexually hence grown men abusing young vulnerable boys. So there is undeniably a link between homosexuality and paedophilia I'm afraid.

Mod-Banned

work · 26-08-2018 12:43AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

That the limitation of your sympathy for victims does not extend beyond the limits of the Catholic Church is intriguing to me.

You want place blame only on some fella from South America who was born over there and lived the vast majority of his life over there, for crimes committed in Ireland.

Yet you don't want to comment on the failings of the guard in the local community who had the power and the authority to investigate and charge any perpetrators of abuse.

You won't have any questions asked of the local school teacher or social worker who might have suspected, or been told, what was going on

I would like to see the truth outed. All involved need to identified and held accountable. I am not aware of any report or admission from the Gardai on this. Smacks of a cover up. And the absence of any report shows that the cover up is still going on. Which would imply they are all paedo-protectors. By the same logic implied that Catholics are supporting paedophiles, all supporters of the Gardai would be supporting paedophiles. Why do you refuse to address this apparent inconsistency. Your responses on the topic remind me of 1990's Nordie political speech.

Funny Your responses on the topic remind me of 1990's Nordie political speech

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:48AM

Hitman3000 wrote:

So what Freddie was gay, he liked guys not kids.

That's my point. Homosexuality is totally different to pedophilea. They are light-years apart. Yet many homophobic people try convince you that gay men want to mess with kids. It's a very ignorant thing to think let alone say

work · 26-08-2018 12:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope. Not surprised. Just annoyed by these claims that this isn't an anti-catholic focus. There isn't any real effort to find those responsible beyond the members of the Catholic Church who were involved.

Klaz, Once there is enough public support to track down the abusers and then their immediate enablers, the church, then we can focus on other enablers. A bit like Israel dealt with Nazi war criminals. But you must agree to start with the perpetrator and work from there. Obviously if evidence starts elsewhere that should be followed. I do not think anyone wants other enablers let off they just want to start justice at those closest to the crimes.

AtomicHorror · 26-08-2018 12:52AM

Whiplash85 wrote: »

Suppressed sexuality where homosexuals couldnt openly express themselves lead to this uncomfortable truth and elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. We as a nation treated homosexuals as criminals and ultimately this drove these people to suicide, abroad to more tolerant society’s and unfortunately a large cabal to catholic institutions where they had free rein and were seen as authority figures. Many have or had this Peter Pan syndrome where they never grew up emotionally or sexually hence grown men abusing young vulnerable boys. So there is undeniably a link between homosexuality and paedophilia I'm afraid.

Pretty sure that's total nonsense. Long discredited and frankly very homophobic.

feargale · 26-08-2018 12:54AM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

It is a valid form of protest.

No it is not, and it invalidates all comments about small turn-out, as the electoral antics in Zimbabwe and North Korea invalidate their results.

A pity the begrudgers didn't let it run. Then they might be able to tell us that the event was a fiasco. You have undermined your own position by your schoolboy gimmicks.

P.S. Not that it should need to be said, I am not of the Pope's religion, I am not attending any of the events and I am as appalled as anyone by the various scandals.

I am less interested in the comments of pubescent smartasses on the various abuses than I am in what is said by the victims. I haven't heard a single victim calling on people to wreck this event. But some people are less interested in the victims than they are in indulging themselves.

work · 26-08-2018 12:54AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Now, hold on a second. You're welcome to trawl through my entire history of posting on boards to find any example of me seeking to lessen the blame "on the church". Go ahead. Shouldn't be difficult to find.

Even within my posts within the last two pages, you won't find me trying to diminish the responsibility of the Church. So... where do you get this accusation from?

Here's where I stand. The Church is responsible. The State was responsible. That there were members of both Church and State who knew about the abuse and covered it up. There were also members of communities who did the same.

I object to simply targeting the Church as if they were solely responsible for what happened. And I object to protesting the Popes visit because it's simply pissing on the day for Catholics who are in no way responsible for what happened.

They are pretty much responsible. Without them carrying out the crimes and their cover up there would not be other enablers. I hope nobody is "pissing" on their great day out just to annoy the good catholics but it is a great opportunity to push the issues as presented in the OP or should they be accepted and which ones are acceptable. If they are not acceptable why should be stay quiet we have all been affected by the evil of the church???

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:54AM

Whiplash85 wrote:

Suppressed sexuality where homosexuals couldnt openly express themselves lead to this uncomfortable truth and elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. We as a nation treated homosexuals as criminals and ultimately this drove these people to suicide, abroad to more tolerant societyâ€™s and unfortunately a large cabal to catholic institutions where they had free rein and were seen as authority figures. Many have or had this Peter Pan syndrome where they never grew up emotionally or sexually hence grown men abusing young vulnerable boys. So there is undeniably a link between homosexuality and paedophilia I'm afraid.

No there is not. These priests were men but they raped boys and girls. Why have you left out the young girls who were raped by the priests? I suspect an agenda here. They were pedophiles and not gay men. Why would gay men /priests rape young girls?

Let's get this straight here. There is no link between gay men and pedophilea.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 12:57AM

AtomicHorror wrote:

Pretty sure that's total nonsense. Long discredited and frankly very homophobic.

You said it better than me & in only two sentences. Well done

Irish Kings · 26-08-2018 12:57AM

work wrote: »

Klaz, Once there is enough public support to track down the abusers and then their immediate enablers, the church, then we can focus on other enablers. A bit like Israel dealt with Nazi war criminals. But you must agree to start with the perpetrator and work from there. Obviously if evidence starts elsewhere that should be followed. I do not think anyone wants other enablers let off they just want to start justice at those closest to the crimes.

Exactly, so why are the current Irish authorities getting away with not having even questioned a current or former Irish bishop regarding conspiracy to pervert the course of justice ? Why has not a single search warrant for their offices and files been issued ? The criminals in the management of the Irish Church who concealed to hide these crimes should be put on trial and prosecuted by the Irish state, but they are not, and the state is getting away with doing NOTHING. What is to prevent these criminals in the Church doing this again to further victims, if the Irish state refuses to enact any criminal justice against them ? The media are also totally complicit in this issue by remaining silent on the current state authorities responsibilities.

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 01:03AM

feargale wrote: »

No it is not, and it invalidates all comments about small turn-out, as the electoral antics in Zimbabwe and North Korea invalidate their results.

A pity the begrudgers didn't let it run. Then they might be able to tell us that the event was a fiasco. You have undermined your own position by your schoolboy gimmicks.

P.S. Not that it should need to be said, I am not of the Pope's religion, I am not attending any of the events and I am as appalled as anyone by the various scandals.

I am less interested in the comments of pubescent smartasses on the various abuses than I am in what is said by the victims. I haven't heard a single victim calling on people to wreck this event. But some people are less interested in the victims than they are in indulging themselves.

How do you know it wasn't victims who ordered tickets and didn't show?

I doubt it was done on a large scale and it doesn't explain the small numbers in the city to see him when the organisers were clearly expecting to be swamped by huge numbers.

work · 26-08-2018 01:09AM

B0jangles wrote: »

I hadn't really planned on going in to the protest tomorrow, but after all the mealy-mouthed equivocation in the last week or so, from multiple very senior clergymen - all those long-flowery phrases expressing nothing more than the usual hollow claptrap I'm definitely going, as are most of my family.

If they think they can wring their hands and ask for forgiveness while STILL continuing to do everything they can to prevent the truth from coming out, they are in for a rude awakening.

That is the spirit, see you there it is where the support should be. I hope the solidarity meeting will get the ball rolling on justice, won't hold my breath with the weakness of our politicians and legal bodies.

Strazdas · 26-08-2018 01:13AM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

For what crowd? That's the point. All they needed was to close from o connell Street to Christchurch. After that a Garda escort at speed. Everyone that turned out to see him could have easily fitted into that section.

They could have kept the disruption to a minimum. Someone wants to know what's it matter if a la Catholics put down RC on the census. Well because of this the government believes that 78 percent are catholic. Because of this misinformation they expected about 5 times more people than turned up today. Shutting the the city when there was no need to do so.

We've had presidents from the states visit, get bigger crowd & still the city didn't come to a standstill.

That was most of the Papal motorcade route. The part from Christchurch to the Capuchin Centre was much shorter and wouldn't even be that busy on a Saturday afternoon anyway.

feargale · 26-08-2018 01:36AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know it wasn't victims who ordered tickets and didn't show?

I doubt it was done on a large scale

I note that you apply the word know to me and doubt to yourself. Do you know of victims who ordered tickets? I know of no idiot on boards who acknowledged block-ordering tickets and at the same time claimed to be a victim. Many victims are in touch with each other and are to some extent organised. I doubt that anyone of them would be so stupid as to advise other victims to act the dick. Any right-thinking person would agree that it would hinder rather than help their cause.

It was done, large scale or not. Those who condoned and encouraged it, and continue to do so, should hold their peace about numbers.

work · 26-08-2018 01:38AM

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

Excellent speech from Leo. Fair play to him.

Not sure really, he is a politician and offers reasonable sound bites but NOTHING solid. Not nearly strong enough in my opinion. In fact sound bites similar to the church. Where he will be lacking will be on ANY action....other than setting up an xyz to give findings in xyears.

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 01:41AM

feargale wrote: »

I note that you apply the word know to me and doubt to yourself. Do you know of victims who ordered tickets? I know of no idiot on boards who acknowledged block-ordering tickets and at the same time claimed to be a victim. Many victims are in touch with each other and are to some extent organised. I doubt that anyone of them would be so stupid as to advise other victims to act the dick. Any right-thinking person would agree that it would hinder rather than help their cause.

It was done, large scale or not. Those who condoned and encouraged it, and continue to do so, should hold their peace about numbers.

Yes, I know of two victims who did this. One was too unwell to travel to Dublin.

Who would it hinder their cause with? Those who have done nothing about this in the first place?? Big deal.

What any victim/protester wants is visible signs of their protest. Empty seats was as good a way as any of doing that.

the_syco · 26-08-2018 02:23AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I think it’s fine the way it is. Don’t want the govt snooping around checking up on ppls religious practice. That’s fascist state type stuff.

I assume you're fine with the RC having input into social and economic issues, as they represent a majority of Irish people, according to the census?

And as they have such power, questions cannot be asked of them so easily, it would seem.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 06:32AM

Thousands watch Pope Francis travel through Dublin in popemobile

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/thousands-watch-pope-francis-travel-through-dublin-in-popemobile-1.3608010

That's thousands. Not 10s of thousands & nowhere near the 100'000 expected people to line the route. What a complete waste of money & I feel for the city business that lost money yesterday due to this.

I have noticed the lack of the Gardai giving an estimate on the numbers as the usually would on such occasions. The only other time I recall the Gardai not giving a figure was under government orders when 100'000 people protested the water meters. Wow. There were 3 or four times more water meter protesters than came to see the pope. Interesting

Lucy8080 · 26-08-2018 06:52AM

Dublin in the sunshine with an aerial view, stunning looking city/town. Might be a "tourist" few bob in it for the country next year.

The Phoenix park shots with the Liffey run to the sea ,just one of many beautiful vistas on this little island.

Riva10 · 26-08-2018 07:02AM

A picture says a thousand words

Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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