Are motorbikes permitted to use the Bus lane during peak hours?

mrcheez · 21-08-2018 4:45pm #1

While cycling over Annesley Bridge toward Fairview, it was typically packed full of cyclists commuting home, so as I was faster than most I was positioned just right of the center.

Had a motorcyclist blast me with his horn several times and narrowly pass me via the Bus lane shaking his head as if I was completely in the wrong taking up all the space and not giving him enough room to undertake vehicle traffic via the Bus lane.

I was planning on informing him at the next set of lights the irony that he was in fact in the wrong by using the Bus lane, but unfortunately they turned green just as I was a metre away and he sped off.

It had me wondering though, are motorbikes allowed to use the Bus lane as Bikes/Buses/Taxis are?

Chips Lovell · 21-08-2018 4:49pm

No, they're not.

GBX · 21-08-2018 4:51pm

No - Not permitted to use them at all. But the Garda turn a blind eye most of the time as long as your not acting the dick speeding etc. I use them within occasionally but make sure I dont block buses etc.

positron · 21-08-2018 5:52pm

Motorcyclists are cyclists too. Just let them go! ï¿¼

PS: I do both cycling and motorcycling and have seen it from both sides. As mentioned above, bus lanes are safer areas for motorcyclists, and as long as they are being considerate and decent, Guards don't mind them there. It's safer than lane splitting as well.

Wishbone Ash · 21-08-2018 6:11pm

When I was taking motorcycle lessons, my instructor said I would be expected to use cycle lanes if vacant. I never felt comfortable doing so and thankfully the situation didn't arise during the test.

(That was about 20 years ago - might have changed since then).

Idleater · 21-08-2018 6:26pm

positron wrote: »

Motorcyclists are cyclists too. Just let them go! ï¿¼

PS: I do both cycling and motorcycling.

Agreed, apart from the beeping and allegedly aggressive behavior towards people legally entitled to be where they are.

For the RoSPA you are strictly *not* allowed.

ArthurG · 21-08-2018 6:29pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

... expected to use cycle lanes....That was about 20 years ago .....

Amazed such things existed back then!!

Tenzor07 · 21-08-2018 6:55pm

positron wrote: »

Motorcyclists are cyclists too..

Only thing motorcyclists and cyclists on this forum have in common are the number of wheels.

Alkers · 21-08-2018 7:26pm

Not officially permitted in the buslane but it's not really enforced. If you're out in the middle of the bus lane because you're overtaking slower cyclists then you just met a wanker of a biker.

Sleeper12 · 21-08-2018 7:35pm

Wishbone Ash wrote:

(That was about 20 years ago - might have changed since then).

I believe you to be correct. Motor bikes definitely used to be allowed to use bus lanes. I actually thought that they still could but have no reason to doubt other posters saying that you can no longer use the bus lane

positron · 21-08-2018 9:47pm

Tenzor07 wrote:

Only thing motorcyclists and cyclists on this forum have in common are the number of wheels.

That's on the outside. Really when you get into it, both groups have many things in common - danger from larger vehicles on the road, SMIDSY is a serious problem for motorcyclists too. Oil spills, poor road surface and manure or other dirt pulled in by farm machinery could all be lethal to motorcyclists too. And not to mention the danger from jay walkers wearing headphones and walking into you. You can come off motorbike for most of the reasons as you would off your bike, and usually it's a lot more serious.

Lumen · 21-08-2018 10:45pm

Harassing bicyclists from a 200kg motor vehicle is dickish.

eeeee · 21-08-2018 11:14pm

Motorbikes and cyclists are not in any way the same - the clue is in the name motor.

They may suffer similar issues from other motorists, but as modes of transport they're very different. I've been repeatedly close passed by motorbikes, buzzed etc for being where I should be on the road.
That said the majority I encounter are totally fine.
They have absolutely no business in the cycle lane. I've been stuck behind them in cycle lanes before, particularly the canal, and it's a pain in the hole being stuck behind big slow lumbering things where they legally shouldn't be...

lennymc · 21-08-2018 11:17pm

There are buslanes where it's legal for motorcycles to use them.

magicbastarder · 21-08-2018 11:19pm

they're next on the spectrum from pedestrians to cyclists (to motorcyclists) to motorists, etc., and that proximity does include some shared experience. mainly in the 'exposure to risk' or 'lesser user of the road than a motorist' way, i guess.

that said, the road user who most recently explictly - and quite deliberately - endangered my life was a showboating motorcyclist.

eeeee · 21-08-2018 11:20pm

lennymc wrote: »

There are buslanes where it's legal for motorcycles to use them.

When are they allowed in the bus lanes? (apart from outside hours obvs)

Effects · 21-08-2018 11:20pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

When I was taking motorcycle lessons, my instructor said I would be expected to use cycle lanes if vacant.

If that was the case then the biker in the original post would just have gone straight through fairview park.

Sleeper12 · 21-08-2018 11:56pm

nee wrote:

Motorbikes and cyclists are not in any way the same - the clue is in the name motor.

Don't some bikes have motors now?

ED E · 21-08-2018 11:57pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't some bikes have motors now?

Very weak ones.

tomasrojo · 22-08-2018 12:00am

I vaguely remember that motorcyclists are a disproportionate cause of serious injuries to pedestrians, but I can't remember the source. Does anybody know whether that's true?

(Not trying to be moralistic; it just might influence decisions about where they're allowed to go)

Sleeper12 · 22-08-2018 12:29am

ED E wrote:

Very weak ones.

I don't know. I only heard about them. Not a cyclist myself & I don't think I've seen any bikes with motors. I suppose if they weren't weak then tax & insurance would be required

vandriver · 22-08-2018 12:40am

lennymc wrote: »

There are buslanes where it's legal for motorcycles to use them.

Where?

tomasrojo · 22-08-2018 12:41am

Pedelecs (motor cuts out at 25km/h) are treated as bicycles. More powerful or faster than that, they're treated as motorbikes.

Wishbone Ash · 22-08-2018 12:43am

Effects wrote: »

If that was the case then the biker in the original post would just have gone straight through fairview park.

Any motorcyclists I see using cycle tracks do so to filter through slow or stationary vehicles. I've never seen a motorcyclist using a segregated cycle track so I don't understand your logic.

Lumen · 22-08-2018 6:42am

tomasrojo wrote: »

I vaguely remember that motorcyclists are a disproportionate cause of serious injuries to pedestrians, but I can't remember the source. Does anybody know whether that's true?

(Not trying to be moralistic; it just might influence decisions about where they're allowed to go)

Caveat: US stats
https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/11/4/232

"Compared with cars, the RR of killing a pedestrian per vehicle mile was 7.97 (95% CI 6.33 to 10.04) for buses; 1.93 (95% CI 1.30 to 2.86) for motorcycles; 1.45 (95% CI 1.37 to 1.55) for light trucks, and 0.96 (95% CI 0.79 to 1.18) for heavy trucks. Compared with cars, buses were 11.85 times (95% CI 6.07 to 23.12) and motorcycles were 3.77 times (95% CI 1.40 to 10.20) more likely per mile to kill children 0–14 years old. Buses were 16.70 times (95% CI 7.30 to 38.19) more likely to kill adults age 85 or older than were cars."

While motorcycles are a bit worse than cars, buses are FAR worse.

So as a ped crossing a bus lane your main worry should be....buses.

Lumen · 22-08-2018 8:32am

Lumen wrote: »

So as a ped crossing a bus lane your main worry should be....buses.

Actually that would be really stupid advice. We mostly accident into things smaller than the things we're looking out for.

Also, I reckon wiping out peds crossing between parked or slow moving cars is the single biggest accident risk for a filtering motorcyclist, whichever lane they're in.

carthoris · 22-08-2018 8:43am

vandriver wrote: »

Where?

Bottom of Georges street where they can turn right onto Dame street is one example that springs to mind. There are probably a few more.

Del2005 · 22-08-2018 8:59am

Lumen wrote: »

Also, I reckon wiping out peds crossing between parked or slow moving cars is the single biggest accident risk for a filtering motorcyclist, whichever lane they're in.

Same risk for bicyclists as a motorcyclist hitting a ped when filtering, if either party isn't paying enough attention.

seamus · 22-08-2018 9:05am

lennymc wrote: »

There are buslanes where it's legal for motorcycles to use them.

They're few and far between. It's almost exclusively situations where cars aren't allowed take a turn, but busses, motorbikes and bikes are. Technically it means bikes can use the bus lane, but it's really incidental and second-fiddle to the fact that they're allowed make the turn.

Bottom of George's St onto Dame St as said above, also used to be the case at the bottom of Dawson St before everything was changed.

Del2005 wrote: »

Same risk for bicyclists as a motorcyclist hitting a ped when filtering, if either party isn't paying enough attention.

Motorbike is considerably faster and heavier though, with more restricted visibility. I'd say not only are they more likely to hit a ped, they're definitely more likely to result in greater injury to the ped.

D3V!L · 22-08-2018 9:13am

Del2005 wrote: »

Same risk for bicyclists as a motorcyclist hitting a ped when filtering, if either party isn't paying enough attention.

I had the misfortune of being in hospital when I was younger and the lad beside me had been hit by a motorbike that mounted the path. He was in a bad bad way, two broken legs, a broken arm and shoulder , along with snapped ribs.

I was in for a broken leg after coming off my own motorbike. His mum asked me not to tell him how I got my injury.

Peds dont realize that motorbikes dont have a crash zone like cars. Serious injury is nearly a given if you get hit by one.

Lumen · 22-08-2018 9:18am

seamus wrote: »

Motorbike is considerably faster and heavier though, with more restricted visibility.

The forward facing visibility is fine. It's the far peripheral vision you don't have with a full face helmet on. Better brakes too.

Still, if I had to pick what I'd be hit by, it wouldn't be a motorbike.

seamus · 22-08-2018 9:25am

YMMV, but motorbikes tend to be lower than bicycles too. So less chance of seeing that bobbing head over the top of an SUV. Probably only a couple of inches in the difference, but it's there all the same, especially if it's a racing-style motorbike.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2018 9:27am

i recently had a motorcyclist pull a full bore wheelie straight towards me - and the difference between someone acting a dick on a motorbike like that vs. in a car, is that if the motorcyclist loses control while showboating, the vehicle becomes much more of an uncontrolled projectile than a car would. albeit smaller, obviously.

Grassey · 22-08-2018 9:28am

I've had motor bikes mount kerb and follow me through Blackrock & Churchtown off road lanes. Seen cars do the same too though. Bit of a design flaw not having regular spaced bollards to prevent mounting/undertaking

But on topic, had similar to OP on Monday heading into Dundrum, I was overtaking postman on bike in empty bus lane, halfway through heard a motorbike gun it from a good bit back and squeeze between me and car in next lane. Definitely one of the closest passes I've had in a long time

RasTa · 22-08-2018 10:54am

The next progression for a cyclist is a motorbike. We all complain about cars and cyclists but bikers are the true kings of this road. Riding a bicycle then switching to a motorbike before learning how to drive a car is the best thing I've ever done in terms of road awareness and how to drive, cycle, ride properly.

magicbastarder · 22-08-2018 11:00am

RasTa wrote: »

bikers are the true kings of this road

nah, they're just wannabe cyclists but are too lazy.

Grassey · 22-08-2018 11:07am

magicbastarder wrote:

nah, they're just wannabe cyclists but are too lazy.

Can you imagine trying to cycle with all that denim and leather and un aero beards?

RasTa · 22-08-2018 11:09am

Other way round for a commuting cyclist who looks upon the biker but can't afford insurance, test and bike. Especially when they are cycling down a steep hill during a windy October

magicbastarder · 22-08-2018 11:16am

sure half the people posting to this forum are on bikes costing more than the average secondhand motorbike.

RasTa · 22-08-2018 11:19am

magicbastarder wrote: »

sure half the people posting to this forum are on bikes costing more than the average secondhand motorbike.

Maybe then the bros rider but overall no chance. If you don't have a motorbike or ever ran a marathon, you're not a true cyclist

positron · 22-08-2018 11:40am

RasTa wrote: »

If you don't have a motorbike or ever ran a marathon, you're not a true cyclist

TIL I am true cyclist!

I can't hold a 25kmph average for any decent distances but who cares, I am a true cyclist. :cool:

Tenzor07 · 22-08-2018 11:54am

Bus lanes are a free for all in Dublin, so the motor-bikers may as well use them like anyone else!

There's enough cars and vans flying down them around the city which need to be caught first..

Though I see in Amsterdam they are moving to take all motor scooters out of the bicycle lanes as they are dangerous and polluting: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/a3nng4/amsterdam-is-enacting-a-scooter-ban-cyclists-ebikes

terrydel · 22-08-2018 12:03pm

Long time motorcyclist, not doing much the last year, but commuted daily for over 10 years on one.
See no issue with motorbikes using them so as they are sensible, stay within speed limits. It plays a little role in keeping things moving without the risk of blocking buses etc because its very easy to get out of the way if needed.
Personally think it should officially be made legal.

GBX · 22-08-2018 12:05pm

My vision is fine with my motorcycle helmet on - I dont keep my head stationary. There's blind spots for sure, but that's what lifesavers are for.

It's risky on the roads for anybody on 2 wheels. I can understand that cyclists have a certain dislike for bikers but there's bad apples in every bunch. I have a lot of time and respect on the road for cyclists.

Tenzor07 · 22-08-2018 12:06pm

terrydel wrote: »

See no issue with motorbikes using them so as they are sensible, stay within speed limits. .

That would be ideal, it's something I rarely see...

site_owner · 22-08-2018 12:59pm

Motorcyclist for many years, cyclist for even more.

Most bikers I see dgaf about cyclists, just treat them like some pox holding them up. I've had plenty of close passes as a cyclist from them and they always do it a ridiculous speed.

When I'm on the bike I consider myself to be a safe rider. I use the bus lanes but give space to cyclists, I dobt speed.

There's definitely a level of awareness you build up riding motorbikes that you don't get cycling but I don't think most bikers give enough respect to cyclists.

Tenzor07 · 22-08-2018 1:36pm

site_owner wrote: »

Motorcyclist for many years, cyclist for even more.Most bikers I see dgaf about cyclists, just treat them like some pox holding them up. I've had plenty of close passes as a cyclist from them and they always do it a ridiculous speed.
When I'm on the bike I consider myself to be a safe rider. I use the bus lanes but give space to cyclists, I dobt speed.
There's definitely a level of awareness you build up riding motorbikes that you don't get cycling but I don't think most bikers give enough respect to cyclists.

That's part of my point, motorbikers have almost nothing in common with cyclists, apart from the wheels, cyclists have more in common with pedestrians!

Apart from the Motorbikers around the city, when they hit the hills on the weekends around the Wicklow gap it's all out Isle of Man TT!

site_owner · 22-08-2018 1:47pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's part of my point, motorbikers have almost nothing in common with cyclists, apart from the wheels, cyclists have more in common with pedestrians!

Apart from the Motorbikers around the city, when they hit the hills on the weekends around the Wicklow gap it's all out Isle of Man TT!

Totally agree. I like to think am actively considerate of cyclists on the motorbike and I still think I'm far from perfect, and for me that awareness and consideration comes from my cycling experience, not my riding. And what I see some other riders do is insane

RasTa · 22-08-2018 3:12pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

That's part of my point, motorbikers have almost nothing in common with cyclists, apart from the wheels, cyclists have more in common with pedestrians!

Apart from the cyclists around the city, when they hit the hills on the weekends around the Wicklow gap it's all out Tour De France!!

FYP

manwithaplan · 22-08-2018 5:09pm

I have rarely had a problem with motorcyclists. They usually look like they know they are in the bus lane on sufferance. The main issue I have with them is when they stop in a gap that is too small for them but fine for a cyclist - I wish they would just pull in behind other traffic and leave it free. Not a big safety issue though.

PS Actually I lie - the odd bike marshall in a race has put me in danger. Usually they did a great job of keeping us safe and have to deal with idiot competitors but there was the odd occasion.

ED E · 22-08-2018 9:49pm

Moped idiots pushing through the cycle lane are far worse than most motorbikers.

Are motorbikes permitted to use the Bus lane during peak hours?

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