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M1/R132 - Dublin Airport Access

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Comments

  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,202 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    It's a weird one in Ireland.

    We are consistently building mainline alignments of roads that are well above the required capacity, resulting in overspecced and wonderful to drive roads (M3, M9, M17 to name a few).

    Then we come along and ruin it all by these ridiculously under-powered junctions that are either crammed with traffic or turn into massive capital projects to upgrade them. In many cases, the junctions are in stupid locations that limit upgrading of them.

    There is no need for the type of highway interchanges you'd see in Atlanta or Houston, but the correct junctions for the correct road capacity would be handy.

    Motorways and dual carriageways ending at terminal roundabouts, at grade junctions on busy routes, all problematic. This is more of a legacy issue than an issue going forward however, many of the new roads being designed at present don't suffer this flaw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭ AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    It's a weird one in Ireland.

    We are consistently building mainline alignments of roads that are well above the required capacity, resulting in overspecced and wonderful to drive roads (M3, M9, M17 to name a few).

    Then we come along and ruin it all by these ridiculously under-powered junctions that are either crammed with traffic or turn into massive capital projects to upgrade them. In many cases, the junctions are in stupid locations that limit upgrading of them.

    There is no need for the type of highway interchanges you'd see in Atlanta or Houston, but the correct junctions for the correct road capacity would be handy.

    Motorways and dual carriageways ending at terminal roundabouts, at grade junctions on busy routes, all problematic. This is more of a legacy issue than an issue going forward however, many of the new roads being designed at present don't suffer this flaw.

    Poor junction design is by far the biggest issue with urban road systems in Ireland. By far.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,202 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Poor junction design is by far the biggest issue with urban road systems in Ireland. By far.
    Even if you take a look at some of the interurbans

    M6 - ends at a roundabout; frequently congested
    M7 - ends at a freeflow junction with 2 other motorways, one of which leads to Galway, the other carries a large volume of M7 traffic southwards and ends 3km before a village
    M8 - ends at the most congested at grade junction in Ireland
    M9 - ends at a roundabout with the N24, connecting to a grade seperated roundabout with the N25
    M17 - ends at a roundabout with the old N17 before continuing as dual carraigeway


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭ AugustusMinimus


    marno21 wrote: »
    Even if you take a look at some of the interurbans

    M6 - ends at a roundabout; frequently congested
    M7 - ends at a freeflow junction with 2 other motorways, one of which leads to Galway, the other carries a large volume of M7 traffic southwards and ends 3km before a village
    M8 - ends at the most congested at grade junction in Ireland
    M9 - ends at a roundabout with the N24, connecting to a grade seperated roundabout with the N25
    M17 - ends at a roundabout with the old N17 before continuing as dual carraigeway

    At least the M8 is finally being solved.

    The M6 ending is a joke. Why on earth didn’t they build a trumpet here as well. Mind boggling. Galway must have about 50% of all urban at grade roundabouts in the country. Never seen anything like it. The road planning in east Galway City is the worst I’ve ever seen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    The Galway one I can understand, either side of the trumpet would just head into two other signalised junctions anyway so it would make precisely no difference overall. Also, its only there as it stands for so long because the original GCOB plans got shelved otherwise it would be meaningless.

    The M8 one at Dunkettle is a disgrace but at least thats getting sorted. The M7 flows straight into the N18 at a nice junction, its the N21 that is the problem. The M9 I agree is utterly ridiculous and the M17 one probably should have had a proper junction at Tuam and a roundabout with the old N17 north of Tuam to slow traffic.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭ AugustusMinimus


    The Galway one I can understand, either side of the trumpet would just head into two other signalised junctions anyway so it would make precisely no difference overall. Also, its only there as it stands for so long because the original GCOB plans got shelved otherwise it would be meaningless.

    The M8 one at Dunkettle is a disgrace but at least thats getting sorted. The M7 flows straight into the N18 at a nice junction, its the N21 that is the problem. The M9 I agree is utterly ridiculous and the M17 one probably should have had a proper junction at Tuam and a roundabout with the old N17 north of Tuam to slow traffic.

    N67 to M6 is not freeflow while it would be as a trumpet. Same land take any a tiny bit more expense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Dream Raspy Barbiturate


    What the actual f**k have they done to the Dublin Airport roundabout? Did a child design the light sequence? :mad: :mad:

    Any time those lights are out, there is never any traffic. Yet what they have done now is increase journey times by about 10-15 mins just on that round about alone. What was the point of all of that work?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭ Bummer1234


    What the actual f**k have they done to the Dublin Airport roundabout? Did a child design the light sequence? :mad: :mad:

    Any time those lights are out, there is never any traffic. Yet what they have done now is increase journey times by about 10-15 mins just on that round about alone. What was the point of all of that work?

    They where an absolute joke this morning at 9am, Back as far as the M1 and usually its free flowing at that time as far as the roundabout(before the works). I don't know what its like at 5/6/7am when the airport is coming up to its busiest but its worse than it was before the works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭ Donegal Storm


    The airport is adding approx 2 million extra passengers every year so that's hardly helping matters. Was just talking to someone this morning involved in the new airport local area plan and apparently it's to be made public late next month or early October so hopefully we'll see some plans then


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    marno21 wrote: »
    Even if you take a look at some of the interurbans

    M6 - ends at a roundabout; frequently congested
    Only 25% of the M6 ends, end at a roundabout, 75% of it ends at freeflow junctions


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    This junction will probably cost €100m to upgrade to freeflow.


    That is the cost to taxpayers of stupidity and not doing things properly the first time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    This junction will probably cost €100m to upgrade to freeflow.


    That is the cost to taxpayers of stupidity and not doing things properly the first time.

    Or €100m spent on other road projects which had a higher cost-benefit ratio at the time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    Another example - J4 on the M1

    458949.jpg


    Why is there a roundabout there?


    What is wrong with these people?


    The next exit on that road is also a roundabout so it makes zero sense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭ Aontachtoir


    Another example - J4 on the M1

    Why is there a roundabout there?


    What is wrong with these people?


    The next exit on that road is also a roundabout so it makes zero sense.

    It makes sense to me. The roundabout prior to entering the road under motorway restrictions allows non-motorway traffic to use the full R125 all the way to the onramp. With the roundabout, non-motorway traffic can then turn around and avoid the motorway.

    Am I missing something?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    It makes sense to me. The roundabout prior to entering the road under motorway restrictions allows non-motorway traffic to use the full R125 all the way to the onramp. With the roundabout, non-motorway traffic can then turn around and avoid the motorway.

    Am I missing something?

    Yes.

    There is a roundabout a few hundred meters up the road with no other access in between.

    Ergo that roundabout should not be there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭ AugustusMinimus


    Or €100m spent on other road projects which had a higher cost-benefit ratio at the time.

    Building it properly first time might not have cost anything more. In the case of M6 / M17 / M18 it would probably hAve been cheaper.

    Junction designs in this country are nothing short of crazy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,095 ✭✭✭ nordydan


    Yes.

    There is a roundabout a few hundred meters up the road with no other access in between.

    Ergo that roundabout should not be there.

    Do this allow U turns for tourists in hire cars leaving Dublin Airport??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,019 Dream Raspy Barbiturate


    Agree with you on this, seems pointless having a roundabout at that point.

    Edit: Although, if you take a wrong turn at the Tesco roundabout and head for the motorway, you would have some journey to get back to where you were if there was no roundabout. Just a thought.
    Another example - J4 on the M1
    [image removed]
    Why is there a roundabout there?
    What is wrong with these people?
    The next exit on that road is also a roundabout so it makes zero sense.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,202 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    The roundabout at J3 on the M1 is there to end motorway restrictions at that point. There is a pedestrian crossing between the two roundabouts mentioned, which would not be allowed if that was a motorway (which it would be without the roundabout closest the M1).


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    marno21 wrote: »
    The roundabout at J3 on the M1 is there to end motorway restrictions at that point. There is a pedestrian crossing between the two roundabouts mentioned, which would not be allowed if that was a motorway (which it would be without the roundabout closest the M1).

    And Bus stops, a bus could serve the bus stops and go back towards Airside.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    DAA to spend €1bn expanding facilities up until 2023 so the airport can cater for 40m passengers per year.

    The approach junctions desperately need upgrading but no news if anything is included to do that.

    I see this pic of possible flyovers around the entrance roundabout and to the M1?

    NY2T2BH.jpg


    That roundabout will not be able cope when passengers reach 40 million p/a


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    Dunno if thats the most recent version? 16/34 gone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,234 ✭✭✭ D.L.R.


    Daft the M1 junction isn't freeflow. Just insanely daft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭ Chris_5339762


    I was flying into Gatwick on Saturday and realised that the M23 junction with the Gatwick road is exactly the same, and takes a hell of a lot more traffic than Dublin.

    Now, I know its the UK which should not be taken as an example of how to do junctions, but it is interesting.

    https://goo.gl/maps/rFjsyeUEL2N2


  • Registered Users Posts: 397 ✭✭ Geogregor


    I was flying into Gatwick on Saturday and realised that the M23 junction with the Gatwick road is exactly the same, and takes a hell of a lot more traffic than Dublin.

    Now, I know its the UK which should not be taken as an example of how to do junctions, but it is interesting.

    https://goo.gl/maps/rFjsyeUEL2N2
    The reason it works for Gatwick is the fact that a lot of passengers use public transport, namely Gatwick Airport train station which is used by nearly 20 mln people a year.
    Now, if Dublin have half decent rail connection with the airport the junction wouldn't be a problem. There really is no need for massive "Texas style" concrete madness there, just invest in proper rail solution which Dublin really needs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭ Donegal Storm


    Even Heathrow has similar from the main M4 entrance, again shows the importance of good public transport


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,654 ✭✭✭✭ Kermit.de.frog


    Geogregor wrote: »
    There really is no need for massive "Texas style" concrete madness there

    Yes, yes there is. :cool:


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,202 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Yes, yes there is. :cool:
    No there really isn't. This is DUB, not IAH.

    American airports have big freeways leading to downtown but Dublin is an old city with narrow streets and limited road capacity, that certainly wasn't built around the car.

    The existing airport setup would be more than sufficient if it had a Metrolink type setup to deal with all the passengers.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭ spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    The existing airport setup would be more than sufficient if it had a Metrolink type setup to deal with all the passengers.
    Marked on the map and will open in 2026.

    I see number 49 on that map looks like a people mover, but I can't understand the places it's serving? They don't look right.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 13,202 Mod ✭✭✭✭ marno21


    Some additional information after publication of a South Fingal transport study

    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/south-fingal-study-published-by-council-37781297.html


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