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M1/R132 - Dublin Airport Access

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    #2
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I read about this. I am out at the airport frequently enough, I never have to wait more than one rotation of the lights to get in or out of the airport. Compared to the likes of the traffic situation in the city centre, the need for the bridge over the dodder and the farce of traffic when you come over the east link bridge northbound, this is mad stuff in my opinion!


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    #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,651 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I read about this. I am out at the airport frequently enough, I never have to wait more than one rotation of the lights to get in or out of the airport. Compared to the likes of the traffic situation in the city centre, the need for the bridge over the dodder and the farce of traffic when you come over the east link bridge northbound, this is mad stuff in my opinion!

    FCC and SDCC, more than DLRCC/Corpo, seem to ensure they actually have funding for road projects - if FCC didn't do this it would be on something else on their long list like dualling the R132 further


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    #4
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,128 ✭✭✭plodder


    Getting in and out of the airport (to/from the M1) is not the typical problem in my experience. There can be long queues approaching the roundabout from the Santry side. I think the traffic lights on the roundabout are a big part of the problem though.


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    #5
    sdanseo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Six weeks after Leo un-shelves Metro North, the Independent report it to be shelved - implying indefinitely.

    They really are a bastion of fantastic journalism.


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    #6
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Was out there today and the roundabout really backing up the airport campus on the main exit road.

    Any word on if/when flyovers will be provided here? Can't see this situation lasting much longer without serious tailbacks.

    With the increasing traffic numbers and "Airport Central" complex to open too....


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    #7
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I thought a flyover was planned at this roundabout years ago?


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    #8
    Donegal Storm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    Already a thread on it here though I haven't heard anything since that article.

    There were new traffic lights installed and some small changes made over the past year though still seems to be frequent tailbacks.

    This (presumably outdated) masterplan for Airport Central shows a double-deckered road with a flyover across the roundabout

    Webp_net_resizeimage_2.jpg


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    #9
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Donegal Storm wrote: »
    Already a thread on it here though I haven't heard anything since that article.

    There were new traffic lights installed and some small changes made over the past year though still seems to be frequent tailbacks.

    This (presumably outdated) masterplan for Airport Central shows a double-deckered road with a flyover across the roundabout

    This is mindbogglingly stupid. This just moves the congestion to the M1 interchange

    The M1 interchange as a signalised roundabout is ridiculously outdated and obsolete. It should be converted into a freeflow interchange if possible


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    #10
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A 5 or 6 level stack would be perfect here.

    20090623_aerial_0037-2560.jpg


    We need two of these. One to replace airport roundabout and the other the M1 interchange.

    Something like this for the M1 interchange would be a start (with 6 lanes each way to Drumcondra)

    1.jpg


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    #11
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    For the M1 J2, surely all that has to be done is build a bridge from the south bound off ramp over to the road approaching the airport roundabout? Traffic coming from the airport to get on the M1 south bound can use the existing set up but no longer has conflicts with traffic coming off the M1. That new bridge ties in with the grade separation of the roundabout, you just need to build a ramp for traffic coming off the north bound carriageway of the M1 to get up to it.

    If the airport roundabout is being grade separated, sorting out the M1 interchange shouldn't be too difficult given there is no easterly traffic movements to be accommodated.


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    #12
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I'd imagine the M1 interchange could be made a trumpet junction without too much difficulty.


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    #13
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    A New traffic Light has been installed on the R132N approaching the Airport roundabout, where there was only a yield sign.

    The cycle lane on the R132 has had the vegetation that covered most of it cleared, so there is no longer the 6" wide bidirectional cycle track opposite the Coachman's pub.

    The M1/M1 roundabout junction was the most stupid design, a freeflow Trumpet could have been built with only one bridge over the mainline, but the decision to allow bewildered drivers do a u-turn (only if coming from the north) trumped sanity...


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    #14
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,571 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Yes, building the M1 airport interchange as a roundabout was incredibly short-sighted and whoever made that decision should be horsewhipped. It should have been a free flow trumpet layout.

    The roundabout at the R132/airport itself needs to be grade separated at this stage.


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    #15
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,744 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    The M1/M1 roundabout junction was the most stupid design, a freeflow Trumpet could have been built with only one bridge over the mainline, but the decision to allow bewildered drivers do a u-turn (only if coming from the north) trumped sanity...
    You mean, there was an actual reason for that? It looked like some dumb attempt at saving money by not having free-flow. That would have been idiotic as well, but at least understandably so.

    :mad:


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    #16
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    will we arrive at the usual Irish situation? another fortune spent for some mickey mouse "improvements"!


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    A 5 or 6 level stack would be perfect here.

    20090623_aerial_0037-2560.jpg


    We need two of these. One to replace airport roundabout and the other the M1 interchange.

    Something like this for the M1 interchange would be a start (with 6 lanes each way to Drumcondra)

    1.jpg

    2 pictures which perfectly show how not to do infrastructure, also nobody is going to fund this to the tune of 90 cents on the euro in the same way the US govt did with road layouts such as these.


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    #18
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    2 pictures which perfectly show how not to do infrastructure


    Load of nonsense. That's what motorway junctions should look like. Not the carry on in this country.


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    #19
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Load of nonsense. That's what motorway junctions should look like. Not the carry on in this country.

    That's what they should look like in disfunctional countries where public transport doesn't exist. Ireland should be following the example of European countries not the USA.


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    #20
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Eh, no, that is what proper motorway junctions look like. That is doing it right.

    Public transport is irrelevant so I don't know why you're bringing that up.


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    #21
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Eh, no, that is what proper motorway junctions look like. That is doing it right.

    Public transport is irrelevant so I don't know why you're bringing that up.

    On the contrary, proper public transport reduces the need for roads. Most European capital airports have rail links. Hopefully the metro finally gets built and takes thousands of cars away from the airport.


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    #22
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,447 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    This is not about the need for roads though.

    It's about building them right in the first place, thereby not having to come back and upgrade them later at huge expense, which we have been rubbish at.

    The junction in question on this thread is an epic example. What halfwit thought sticking a roundabout on the M1 here was a good idea?

    These things should not happen. Just build correctly in the first place.


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    #23
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    This is not about the need for roads though.

    It's about building them right in the first place, thereby not having to come back and upgrade them later at huge expense, which we have been rubbish at.

    The junction in question on this thread is an epic example. What halfwit thought sticking a roundabout on the M1 here was a good idea?

    These things should not happen. Just build correctly in the first place.

    No junction in Ireland has ever needed to be built like the examples you've provided. We simply don't have the traffic levels to justify anything like it and will never need something like it at the airport.


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    #24
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,456 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    No junction in Ireland has ever needed to be built like the examples you've provided. We simply don't have the traffic levels to justify anything like it and will never need something like it at the airport.


    The examples provided were a bit over the top. However, the point is well made about the M1 junction, who decided to build a roundabout when traffic is only going towards the airport and something like a trumpet design was needed?


    We are an island of 6.5 million, which may become 7 or 8. There is a limit to the road infrastructure that will ever been needed, but decisions should not be made which do not reflect a reasonable future.


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    #25
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    That's what they should look like in disfunctional countries where public transport doesn't exist. Ireland should be following the example of European countries not the USA.


    Like Frankfurt?


    https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0543018,8.6026399,1157m/data=!3m1!1e3

    They have an S-bahn, and an ICE station in their airport.


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    #26
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    The examples provided were a bit over the top. However, the point is well made about the M1 junction, who decided to build a roundabout when traffic is only going towards the airport and something like a trumpet design was needed?


    We are an island of 6.5 million, which may become 7 or 8. There is a limit to the road infrastructure that will ever been needed, but decisions should not be made which do not reflect a reasonable future.

    I agree completely that we should build infrastructure correctly first time, but that doesn't mean we should be going down the US route that kermit.de.frog wants. He seems to have a fetish for US road infrastructure and has claimed in previous threads that Ireland and Europe need to learn from the US and build wider roads.
    Rulmeq wrote: »
    Like Frankfurt?
    https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0543018,8.6026399,1157m/data=!3m1!1e3

    They have an S-bahn, and an ICE station in their airport.

    That's a standard cloverleaf junction. Nothing wrong with that. And it's magnitudes of order smaller than the examples given above. Probably because it has S-Bahn and ICE stations negate the need for such monstrous junctions.


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    #27
    Rulmeq
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    That's a standard cloverleaf junction. Nothing wrong with that. And it's magnitudes of order smaller than the examples given above. Probably because it has S-Bahn and ICE stations negate the need for such monstrous junctions.


    Yep, and it doesn't even take up much more land space than the one at Dublin airport, despite handling multiple motorways.


    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4282762,-6.2205182,1287m/data=!3m1!1e3


    I used to commute from Kelsterbach for a while, and the speed at which they built that ICE station, and the new runway were amazing (considering how long it has taken them to build the new airport in Berlin). I barely recongised the place when I went back there.


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    #28
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Its also the busiest junction in Europe, with about 320,000 AADT.


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    #29
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    No junction in Ireland has ever needed to be built like the examples you've provided. We simply don't have the traffic levels to justify anything like it and will never need something like it at the airport.

    Completely disagree. We constantly build under capacity junction, which take the same land space and at times cost more than the higher capacity junction.

    The M6/M17/M18 junction is a disgrace. Most countries in Europe wouldn’t think twice about building a stack where 2 motorways cross. Yet we are still stuck in Roundabout cloud cuckoo land.

    It is an absolute disgrace that the M1 junction was not built as a trumpet. What on Earth were they thinking?


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    #30
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    I can’t wait to see what expensive inadequate crap design they come up with next ...


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    #31
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,805 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Completely disagree. We constantly build under capacity junction, which take the same land space and at times cost more than the higher capacity junction.

    The M6/M17/M18 junction is a disgrace. Most countries in Europe wouldn’t think twice about building a stack where 2 motorways cross. Yet we are still stuck in Roundabout cloud cuckoo land.

    It is an absolute disgrace that the M1 junction was not built as a trumpet. What on Earth were they thinking?

    Try reading all my posts on the subject. I advocate building correctly first time, but following European examples rather than those American monstrosities.


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