Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

Spanish Eyes · 19-08-2018 12:36PM

People in genuine poverty would not demean themselves by stunts like this. Those who need it most retain their dignity and get help quietly. We are a caring nation.

Cash and Co. have no moral integrity or dignity. Me me me.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 12:39PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

Jesus :eek: what a soft touch we really are

Yes we are indeed. The big money would only come along when a council property is allocated though, no requirement to prove what the money was spent on either, I know of 1 individual who got it and just collected it in the post office on her regular payday and she said they didn’t ask for proof of expenditure like receipts or ask to see the property furnished.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 12:40PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

People in genuine poverty would not demean themselves by stunts like this. Those who need it most retain their dignity and get help quietly. We are a caring nation.

Cash and Co. have no moral integrity or dignity. Me me me.

She admitted she isn’t impoverished, just doesn’t have her ‘forever home which I have a right to’

Edgware · 19-08-2018 12:41PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

What is exceptional needs payment? Another payment?

Another payment introduced to buy votes. Used by dirtbags to get replacement household appliances " someone stole me fridge" etc having flogged it on Done Deal

Ginger83 · 19-08-2018 12:44PM

Edgware wrote: »

Another payment introduced to buy votes. Used by dirtbags to get replacement household appliances " someone stole me fridge" etc having flogged it on Done Deal

Wow that is shocking.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 12:44PM

Edgware wrote: »

Another payment introduced to buy votes. Used by dirtbags to get replacement household appliances " someone stole me fridge" etc having flogged it on Done Deal

They did away with this payment for communions etc so certain sections of society were ‘upset’ by it as they were ‘entitled’ to it.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 12:45PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

Wow that is shocking.

Having read this thread you’d really wonder why you ever decided to work for a living.

tabby aspreme · 19-08-2018 12:50PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

The council just hand you the 4 walls, the welfare hand you 'the cash'

Yes this is correct. A friend of mine was doing a few hours work last week in a 4 bed semi in a Midlands town, the house was recently bought by the Co Council and had just been given to a woman with 5 kids . The house had no furniture white goods etc, while he was there with a council engineer she was continuously on the phone to electrical , furniture, and hardware shops getting prices for everything she needed and then onto the Social to organise cheques for payment . This was also a traveller family , though the same rules apply for traveller or settled people. As a self employed person with 5 kids of his own he was fairly p*****d off at the thought of over half what he was charging would be paying for this lot, through vat, tax, usc etc.

Ginger83 · 19-08-2018 12:53PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Having read this thread you’d really wonder why you ever decided to work for a living.

Yes i worked all my working career up until an illness put me on something called Invalid Pension but thats it, there's still a mortgage to be paid.

Maybe pension rates would be better if they were not so wasteful with funds.

BarryD2 · 19-08-2018 12:56PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You’re not funding anything. That’s the point. The funding for any services or assistance which is provided by the State is funded by Revenue. You would still be paying the same amount of tax even if all people who are categorised as homeless were housed.

How do you figure that out?? The Revenue don't get their money from a magic tree - it comes from a variety of direct and indirect taxes on all of us. If this money was not being spent in the manner discussed here, there would be a saving and we'd be paying LESS tax. So of course we're funding it.

I and I guess most others have no objection to being a tax payer per se. It's a fundamental part of the citizens relationship with out state. All that I'd personally ask is that no more tax is collected than what is necessary and that what is collected, is spend wisely and equitably.

Damien360 · 19-08-2018 01:03PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Having read this thread you’d really wonder why you ever decided to work for a living.

Yes i worked all my working career up until an illness put me on something called Invalid Pension but thats it, there's still a mortgage to be paid.

Maybe pension rates would be better if they were not so wasteful with funds.

This is exactly it. The tax pot only has so much to give. We would all pay tax regardless but the benefits to each group get smaller as we race to give handouts to those that don't contribute. Yes, you still have to care for those but not at a rate that actively promotes a new generation of non workers. If you could earn twice as much for not getting an education and not working than anyone else, why would you bother ?

She is still just one of many doing the exact same. She is just the current poster girl for internet rage. If the government announced a cut in half of these benefits, there would be a march to remove the government.

NIMAN · 19-08-2018 01:04PM

Yer one that had the kids on the beach, when asked why the father of some of her kids doesn't contribute to their upkeep, she spat out some line about being badly treated and not wanting anything to do with him.

All she would have to do was report him to the authorities, and they would hound him for the money, its not like she would have to allow him to come round to her house every Friday and hand over cash.

To me, thats letting him off the hook far too easily. Irrespective of what he might have done in the past. If anything, you'd think she would be looking to take him to the f'in cleaners if he had treated her badly.

And she says she didn't plan to have 9 kids.....and had contraception problems.....aye, you didn't use any!!

Blazer · 19-08-2018 01:08PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Accusations of high and mighty are going to get us nowhere for a start. You’re acting all high and mighty with regard to Ms. Cash, and you think I’m acting all high and mighty with you because I point out that for all you think you’re contributing to humanity you actually haven’t contributed anything. I guess we measure our humanity by different standards.

I’m looking at this thread and it’s been a handful of pretty much the same contributors throughout. How you can extrapolate that to imagine they represent the opinions of the vast majority of people in employment in Ireland is based upon nothing more than simply what you want to believe must be true of other people. I’m simply pointing out to you that your belief is on very shaky foundations.

You’re not funding anything. That’s the point. The funding for any services or assistance which is provided by the State is funded by Revenue. You would still be paying the same amount of tax even if all people who are categorised as homeless were housed, and you would have no choice in how much taxes are deducted from your income to fund Government income and expenditure. There’s plenty of initiatives and policies I don’t support the Government funding, but I understand they are necessary for what is referred to in the Irish Constitution as the State acting in the interests of achieving ‘the common good’ of Irish society.

How long can it continue on? As long as Government aren’t willing to adequately address the issue, which appears to be what motivated Ms. Cash to take the actions she did. She wants to be part of the settled community and wants her children to be educated and wants to try and keep them in a mainstream school, and in that way she is contributing to society, but she too, like yourself, feels that she isn’t receiving adequate support from Government.

What are the long term impacts of Government not addressing these issues right now? Well, you’re seeing them, because since the foundation of the State, Governments have never adequately addressed these issues, and that’s why you still have people in this thread making the same comments people did about how to deal with the people they saw as the underclass nearly 100 years ago when the Poor Laws were introduced in 1831 that led to the establishment of workhouses which later became the Mother and Baby homes and which we now like to pretend people in society then didn’t know what was going on. They did, but then, as now, they just didn’t care as long as it didn’t affect them - out of sight, out of mind.

I think Ms. Cash has done a great service to humanity by highlighting the issue and putting herself forward to be slaughtered on social media. Whether one agrees or disagrees with her actions, there can be no doubt that she has done more to highlight the issue of homelessness than any of the three-piece suit brigade playing respectability politics.

Christ talk about delusional.
The money wasted on these ‘entitled’ people could be better spent on genuine cases.
I’d much prefer that special needs and mentally ill people are better funded. It’s shocking how badly the Irish state treats children in this country.
These are the people who genuinely need our help.
I’ve had no problem funding Mrs Cash and the like if they actually taught their children anything but we all know most of those children won’t amount to anything.
And that’s the fault of society and their parents.

One eyed Jack · 19-08-2018 01:13PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

How do you figure that out?? The Revenue don't get their money from a magic tree - it comes from a variety of direct and indirect taxes on all of us. If this money was not being spent in the manner discussed here, there would be a saving and we'd be paying LESS tax. So of course we're funding it.

I and I guess most others have no objection to being a tax payer per se. It's a fundamental part of the citizens relationship with out state. All that I'd personally ask is that no more tax is collected than what is necessary and that what is collected, is spend wisely and equitably.

We really wouldn’t be paying less tax. The tax that is collected would remain the same, and Government would simply spend it somewhere else, in the same way as currently services such as health and education and employment are under-funded and under-resourced. There are no savings to be made when Government through the various Government departments funds the employment of middle-men as it were who take their cut to distribute what is left down the chain to the people beneath them, to the people beneath them, to the point where income from Revenue is 69Billion, yet Government expenditure is 72Billion, and yet we still pay among the lowest rates of PRSI in the OECD. The only way this economic model is in any way sustainable is because the Government continues to borrow rather than spend their income wisely and equitably and stop outsourcing services that should be provided by the State, rather than just provided for by the State.

doolox · 19-08-2018 01:26PM

It all boils down to this. If the woman in this story was not there for some reason how much would it cost the State to take care of 7 (soon to be 8) orphans, assuming the father is not available or capable of doing the caring in the absence of the mother.

This amounts to an extreme case of a gross mismatch between family size and available resources and care personnel for their upbringing.

There is nothing the government can do about this unless you subscribe to government enforcement of family planning, sexual relations among consenting adults or , at the extreme end, enforced abortions if "surplus" children are conceived.

Liberal democracies do not do this.

The only country that even considered any form of State control of fertility and family size was China and even that was disastrous with huge gender imbalances, falling below replacement levels in population and a problem of one child having to look after 4 aging parents etc. On a similar tone US States like California had a Eugenics program where "undesireable" people of low intellect or physical attributes were subject to enforced sterilisation and were institutionalised and prevented from forming relationships etc. This would not be tolerated or allowed now but was common enough in the 1930's.

Ms Cash represents an extreme example of a disastrous combination of outdated family customs, lack of limits on family size and a general lack of education and basic formation in responsibility. Because she married at 15 and never went beyond primary school and her partner seems to be in prison it looks extremely unlikely she could ever get a job. Throw in childcare costs for 7 (soon to be 8) children and the State has no choice but to provide for her and her children for the foreseeable future.

It might sound mad but having her look after her own children in her own State-provided home with support costs inevitably provided by the State might work out cheaper than the alternative, State care or foster care.

The children in all of this are citizens of Ireland and need to be looked after, educated and developed in the hope that they will know and do better with their lives.It must be hoped that they will not take example from their parents in all of this. Australia tried to remove aboriginal children from the natural parents at birth because it was considered better for the children to be raised in orphanages and institutions rather than with their natural parents, who were considered "primitive" and chaotic. The policy was a disaster.

Family ties, even with such dysfunctional and desperately inadequate examples as in this story are too strong to be broken up at the whim of the State.

ChikiChiki · 19-08-2018 01:31PM

Many good people who badly want kids won't because they realise that they simply can't afford to have one and all the expenses that come with it. The same people have to contribute to this one.

It's a ludicris situation. 2 fingers to the people that are the very engine of our country.

Galwayguy35 · 19-08-2018 01:39PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Accusations of high and mighty are going to get us nowhere for a start. You’re acting all high and mighty with regard to Ms. Cash, and you think I’m acting all high and mighty with you because I point out that for all you think you’re contributing to humanity you actually haven’t contributed anything. I guess we measure our humanity by different standards.

I’m looking at this thread and it’s been a handful of pretty much the same contributors throughout. How you can extrapolate that to imagine they represent the opinions of the vast majority of people in employment in Ireland is based upon nothing more than simply what you want to believe must be true of other people. I’m simply pointing out to you that your belief is on very shaky foundations.

You’re not funding anything. That’s the point. The funding for any services or assistance which is provided by the State is funded by Revenue. You would still be paying the same amount of tax even if all people who are categorised as homeless were housed, and you would have no choice in how much taxes are deducted from your income to fund Government income and expenditure. There’s plenty of initiatives and policies I don’t support the Government funding, but I understand they are necessary for what is referred to in the Irish Constitution as the State acting in the interests of achieving ‘the common good’ of Irish society.

How long can it continue on? As long as Government aren’t willing to adequately address the issue, which appears to be what motivated Ms. Cash to take the actions she did. She wants to be part of the settled community and wants her children to be educated and wants to try and keep them in a mainstream school, and in that way she is contributing to society, but she too, like yourself, feels that she isn’t receiving adequate support from Government.

What are the long term impacts of Government not addressing these issues right now? Well, you’re seeing them, because since the foundation of the State, Governments have never adequately addressed these issues, and that’s why you still have people in this thread making the same comments people did about how to deal with the people they saw as the underclass nearly 100 years ago when the Poor Laws were introduced in 1831 that led to the establishment of workhouses which later became the Mother and Baby homes and which we now like to pretend people in society then didn’t know what was going on. They did, but then, as now, they just didn’t care as long as it didn’t affect them - out of sight, out of mind.

I think Ms. Cash has done a great service to humanity by highlighting the issue and putting herself forward to be slaughtered on social media. Whether one agrees or disagrees with her actions, there can be no doubt that she has done more to highlight the issue of homelessness than any of the three-piece suit brigade playing respectability politics.

The funny thing is you probably believe what you just wrote there, you just refuse to accept that she is a leech who has never worked, more than likely never will and the only 'great service to humanity' she has done is show other spongers an easy way to get what they want.

No doubt that lowlife she is married to will be shacked up with her when he gets out, I pity the elderly people in the area when that happens.

NIMAN · 19-08-2018 01:54PM

That beach woman with the brood in tents, she put up so many obstacles to being housed that its near on impossible for her to ever get a place unless they specifically design a house for her and build it.

It needs to be in this area.
It needs to be able to house 10 people, plus 3 visiting children
It needs to be close to my GP cos I need him on a monthly basis

And again, she said MOST of her 9 kids were conceived whilst she was using contraception. She is either the unluckiest woman alive, or else a liar. I know which option I'd go for if I was a betting man.

Boylan asked her all the difficult questions whilst at the same time trying to sympathise a bit, but you got the impression he didn't have much time for her, and rightly so.

end of the road · 19-08-2018 01:56PM

HIB wrote: »

Unfortunately not true. She’s not just the problem of people from Dublin. All our tax contributes towards housing her, regardless of where we are from.

we have to legally pay tax. she's from dublin and needs housing, everywhere else has people needing housing, that is why she's dublin's problem to deal with.

HIB wrote: »

She should be housed in the cheapest place possible I.e. outside Dublin. And tough if she doesn’t like it. You can’t get everything you want. Especially not when you’re depending on the charity of others.

there are people outside dublin needing housing already. it is not the job of places outside dublin, to take the social housing tenants of dublin, when they have their own people to help, with little to no chances of being given the extra resources needed to help a large amount of people compared to what they would be used to. they barely have the resources to help who they need to help as it is, and are unlikely to get more. sorry, miss cash is your problem.

HIB wrote: »

And another point worth making:

She gets a little over 2500/mth in welfare payments, by my reckoning.

Working off my own family budget(and making appropriate adjustments to food and clothing budgets to account for 6 kids), that’s more than enough to pay for everything she needs, including the running of a car, and she’ll still have up to 50-75 euro/ week left over for whatever luxuries she wants.

She could live in the arse end of nowhere. She doesn’t need any extra ‘resources’ or help.

again, the arse end of nowhere has it's own people needing help. and yes i'd suspect she likely does need resources given she is a wellfare dependant.

One eyed Jack · 19-08-2018 01:57PM

Blazer wrote: »

Christ talk about delusional.
The money wasted on these ‘entitled’ people could be better spent on genuine cases.
I’d much prefer that special needs and mentally ill people are better funded. It’s shocking how badly the Irish state treats children in this country.
These are the people who genuinely need our help.
I’ve had no problem funding Mrs Cash and the like if they actually taught their children anything but we all know most of those children won’t amount to anything.
And that’s the fault of society and their parents.

Who’s this ‘we’ business? By all means speak for your own ignorance, but I wouldn’t write anyone off as you’ve just done. You’ve reminded me of how I was written off as ‘retarded’ as a child because I have dyslexia. Then you go on to talk about what you consider ‘genuine’ cases when the reality is that you know nothing of other people’s circumstances. Your standards are based upon people who meet your perception of people who are ‘deserving’ of assistance. You’re ignoring the fact that often people who are homeless, are homeless because the State does not provide adequate supports for children and people with special needs which then leads to issues with their mental health as adults and can often lead to homelessness.

You’ve got all the right ideas, but you’re failing to make the connections between them which leads to outcomes for people like Ms. Cash whom you now consider as an adult is undeserving of assistance, and not only that, but you’ve written off her children too as children who won’t amount to anything as adults.

I don’t know whether they will or they won’t, but the same could be said of anyone when there are people who not only refuse to help them, but try to prevent them from being assisted in order that they will become contributing members to society. You’re no different to Ms. Cash in that you’re only thinking about what matters to you, and what you determine people should be entitled to or not, whereas I’m more focused on what people actually need to enable them to contribute to society rather than being dependent upon the State for assistance. Zeroing in on how much that’s going to cost is missing the bigger picture where it really doesn’t cost you anything. It only requires that you don’t write people off so easily.

I’m not going to call you delusional for demanding that the Government address issues though, you’ll just be waiting a while before that happens, about ten years seems to be the general waiting time for these things, and by then it’s already too late.

Idbatterim · 19-08-2018 02:07PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

Jesus :eek: what a soft touch we really are

Have those morons handing it out carte Blanche heard of donedeal etc or charity shops? Christ!

Blazer · 19-08-2018 02:24PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Who’s this ‘we’ business? By all means speak for your own ignorance, but I wouldn’t write anyone off as you’ve just done. You’ve reminded me of how I was written off as ‘retarded’ as a child because I have dyslexia. Then you go on to talk about what you consider ‘genuine’ cases when the reality is that you know nothing of other people’s circumstances. Your standards are based upon people who meet your perception of people who are ‘deserving’ of assistance. You’re ignoring the fact that often people who are homeless, are homeless because the State does not provide adequate supports for children and people with special needs which then leads to issues with their mental health as adults and can often lead to homelessness.

You’ve got all the right ideas, but you’re failing to make the connections between them which leads to outcomes for people like Ms. Cash whom you now consider as an adult is undeserving of assistance, and not only that, but you’ve written off her children too as children who won’t amount to anything as adults.

I don’t know whether they will or they won’t, but the same could be said of anyone when there are people who not only refuse to help them, but try to prevent them from being assisted in order that they will become contributing members to society. You’re no different to Ms. Cash in that you’re only thinking about what matters to you, and what you determine people should be entitled to or not, whereas I’m more focused on what people actually need to enable them to contribute to society rather than being dependent upon the State for assistance. Zeroing in on how much that’s going to cost is missing the bigger picture where it really doesn’t cost you anything. It only requires that you don’t write people off so easily.

I’m not going to call you delusional for demanding that the Government address issues though, you’ll just be waiting a while before that happens, about ten years seems to be the general waiting time for these things, and by then it’s already too late.

Look. We both know the government has to step up and implement a long term plan to help people and at the moment it’s a joke. They’re just throwing money willy nilly without any thought Of the long term consequences.
I don’t really blame Mrs Cash. She’s has no life really and the refusal of the traveling commmnity to come into the 21st century is a farce. They’re basically a welfare dependent race now and it’s their children I really feel sorry for. At this moment their parents are letting them down badly and they don’t seem to care about it.
The government needs to address this, start providing long term upskilling to people on welfare etc.
In 20 years time potentially with the arrival of AI a whole lot of lower skilled people could dramatically lose their jobs etc but of course the current government doesn’t give a toss as long as they get their pensions.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 02:24PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Have those morons handing it out carte Blanche heard of donedeal etc or charity shops? Christ!

Probably has to be brand new in their eyes under health and safety legislation.

NIMAN · 19-08-2018 03:16PM

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

Probably has to be brand new in their eyes under health and safety legislation.

Not sure of Irish regulations, but I know that in NI, if social housing is freed up by someone moving on, the place gets new kitchen, sanitary ware, paint etc before a new occupant comes in.

19-08-2018 03:24PM

End of the road

Could you explain to me what type of resources you are talking about?

Spanish Eyes · 19-08-2018 03:25PM

Contributors to Society Party is desperately needed now.

CSP.

But the meeja will not allow it at all. Think on that.

Ginger83 · 19-08-2018 03:25PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Have those morons handing it out carte Blanche heard of donedeal etc or charity shops? Christ!

We used a 1 ring camping stove from argos for over a year until we could afford a cooker, you know the ones with the cans of gas?

I always laugh at the looks i got buying camping gas with snow outside

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 03:25PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Not sure of Irish regulations, but I know that in NI, if social housing is freed up by someone moving on, the place gets new kitchen, sanitary ware, paint etc before a new occupant comes in.

Strictly speaking in ROI that is supposed to happen where the paint is concerned but doesn’t always.

As for sanitary ware and kitchens, only if damaged or broken are they replaced.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 19-08-2018 03:27PM

Ginger83 wrote: »

We used a 1 ring camping stove from argos for over a year until we could afford a cooker, you know the ones with the cans of gas?

I always laugh at the looks i got buying camping gas with snow outside

Are those things costly to run? When you say ‘we’ you weren’t alone then? Just curious as I’m not someone who would be into camping.

suicide_circus · 19-08-2018 03:33PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Many good people who badly want kids won't because they realise that they simply can't afford to have one and all the expenses that come with it. The same people have to contribute to this one.

It's a ludicris situation. 2 fingers to the people that are the very engine of our country.

it's a weird social transaction in which the careful and prudent worker ants transfer their reproductive potential to the carefree and imprudent leisurely grasshoppers.

Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

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