NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

fritzelly · 13-08-2018 12:26AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I could see a case being made alright but would any of these companies have pockets deep enough to take Comreg to the High Court or above when a judgement not in their favour could bankrupt them.

With good reason to win I'm sure Sky would be all too willing to take them on.
Think this would be covered by EU competition law

Marlow · 13-08-2018 12:31AM

fritzelly wrote: »

With good reason to win I'm sure Sky would be all too willing to take them on.
Think this would be covered by EU competition law

Especially with the case, that both the IIF and through the IIF also eNet both partially have the government as shareholder. So there is a case, that the government is interfering with private businesses and even financing their actions with EU funds.

/M

fergus1001 · 13-08-2018 07:04AM

it will be interesting to see if eir blinks in the next month

irishfeen · 13-08-2018 09:01AM

Marlow wrote: »

Especially with the case, that both the IIF and through the IIF also eNet both partially have the government as shareholder. So there is a case, that the government is interfering with private businesses and even financing their actions with EU funds.

/M

You can be sure that the AG and others around the government are probably already looking at this.

Marlow · 13-08-2018 10:44AM

irishfeen wrote: »

You can be sure that the AG and others around the government are probably already looking at this.

They don't mind interfering with / financing competition with an inferior product. We've seen that on the last NBS with Three.

But when it's a government owned/backed entity, it'll defo blow up on in FGs face. And that'll be Esat all over again.

/M

shigllgetcha · 13-08-2018 01:40PM

https://www.joe.ie/news/eir-apprentice-scheme-636511

"Eir is hiring new apprentices in Ireland for the 'largest broadband rollout programme in Europe'"

I wonder is this replacing people leaving the country or gearing up for something?

Gonzo · 13-08-2018 01:55PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

https://www.joe.ie/news/eir-apprentice-scheme-636511

"Eir is hiring new apprentices in Ireland for the 'largest broadband rollout programme in Europe'"

I wonder is this replacing people leaving the country or gearing up for something?

my guess is they will roll-out FTTH on a widespread scale across most of our towns, cities, housing estates and built up areas in general.

Siro are starting to make more progress in towns all around Greater Dublin region and elsewhere in the country, same with Virgin, who will offer much greater speeds than Eir's copper network can ever do. Eir have to upgrade to full FTTH to stay relevant in urban areas after 2020.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 13-08-2018 05:53PM

Marlow wrote: »

They can't. It means they would have to open up for other providers on their network.

That sounds more like one of their regular marketing stunts.

/M

Perhaps they envision setting up a separate wholesale business for the NBP. We don't know yet how many premises enet intend connecting by wireless.

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1028953981954011136

Marlow · 13-08-2018 06:12PM

Well, Adrian Wecklers comment would suggest, that Imagine wants to be considered for delivering wireless to the NBP Company, but let them do the wholesale management.

Now, I can't see that happening, when eNet owns Airspeed and already has a wireless delivery infrastructure in house.

Why would they let somebody else deliver that portion then ?

Just being part of it doesn't mean bidding or taking part in the tender.

/M

9726_9726 · 13-08-2018 06:15PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

https://www.joe.ie/news/eir-apprentice-scheme-636511

"Eir is hiring new apprentices in Ireland for the 'largest broadband rollout programme in Europe'"

I wonder is this replacing people leaving the country or gearing up for something?

Rumour mill has it that KNN is quitting Ireland.

Marlow · 13-08-2018 06:18PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

Rumour mill has it that KNN is quitting Ireland.

Actually, I was speaking to one of the engineers a couple weeks back and the "internal" notions are, that they might be working for OpenEIR next year.

Basically, outsourcing allowed OpenEIR to get rid of the old timers who would maybe have done 2-3 jobs in a day and worked no more than half a day.

But it also came at a price tag, which I'm sure they want to bring down again. Pulling the installation back in house would mean they can hire more efficient engineers.

/M

The Cush · 13-08-2018 06:23PM

KN Group are to be bought by French telecoms firm Circet according to an article last weekend

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/french-telecom-firm-poised-to-buy-kn-group-in-150m-deal-37205118.html

listermint · 13-08-2018 08:53PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

Rumour mill has it that KNN is quitting Ireland.

Why would knn quit an extremely lucrative irish market....

HoggyRS · 14-08-2018 11:31PM

shigllgetcha wrote: »

https://www.joe.ie/news/eir-apprentice-scheme-636511

"Eir is hiring new apprentices in Ireland for the 'largest broadband rollout programme in Europe'"

I wonder is this replacing people leaving the country or gearing up for something?

Most of the current techs are 58 and over and thats who those apprentices are replacing. Very little to do with a fibre rollout.

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 08:38PM

So 5G is gonna be the thing in the US
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/how-5g-will-change-home-internet-and-tv.html

I wonder who is following this closely...

SkepticQuark · 16-08-2018 08:44PM

fritzelly wrote: »

So 5G is gonna be the thing in the US
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/how-5g-will-change-home-internet-and-tv.html

I wonder who is following this closely...

I'm obviously not the only one that believes we need a strong fibre network delivering wired connections to every home and then a strong mobile network to supplement not sub in for it?

Marlow · 16-08-2018 09:13PM

fritzelly wrote: »

So 5G is gonna be the thing in the US
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/how-5g-will-change-home-internet-and-tv.html

I wonder who is following this closely...

You are aware, that there's more wireless providers (as in local and regional WISPs) in the US per sq.mile than in Ireland ?

You are also aware, that coverage in the US is very much segmented. And one provider does not cross into another ones territory ?

The US is not a broadband landscape you can compare with Europe. At all. That applies to all telecommunications. Most of the time they're backwards.

I can't see, how this is going to happen, as they haven't even paid their 4G infrastructure off. I reckon the rollout will be limited to urban cells to compete with cable operators head-on. That's about it.

roddy15 wrote: »

I'm obviously not the only one that believes we need a strong fibre network delivering wired connections to every home and then a strong mobile network to supplement not sub in for it?

We don't have a strong fiber-backbone in Ireland. Full stop. And when you have access to one fiber, you often don't have a backup. But in 4 out of 5 cases you actually have none.

So ...... that needs to be fixed first, before 5G can come. Right now we can't even deliver enough bandwidth to maximize the potential of 4G and LTE in most places.

/M

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 09:26PM

Oh I agree this is probably years away but there is something to be said for some smallish villages that have lots of little trailing developments not moving far from the center where a 5G mast would make more obvious sense rather than rolling out miles of cabling but you could still cable those central businesses that require the upper echelons of BB speed
The only thing I wouldn't know are the figures/expenditure comparing cable rollout to a mast installation and the cost to run that mast - over to you Marlow

Marlow · 16-08-2018 09:34PM

fritzelly wrote: »

The only thing I wouldn't know are the figures/expenditure comparing cable rollout to a mast installation and the cost to run that mast - over to you Marlow

There is a reason, that the quickest way of getting broadband penetration is wireless.

There is also a reason, that we have massive black holes when it comes to that coverage. And these black holes often don't get filled, because everyone and their granny object to new masts going up.

And then there's the issue of getting fiber to these masts. Costly, because many hands want to be filled. Running cables on public land is sort of straight forward. Once you cross into private land .... mjaeh ... problem.

It's a chicken and egg problem. The cable run may cost more in civils, but it's scalable, it will last longer and it doesn't get any objections. As long as it's on public land and along roads.

/M

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 09:45PM

Yeah I know all about third party/objections - come across several people who will never get fibre because their neighbours don't want a pole or it needs to go over someones land etc/shared drive etc etc. When VM were doing their rollout they had the same problem

But does cable last longer - seems in Ireland half the time eir are constantly repairing/replacing broken lines. I would have thought wireless would be spend once and done, less likely that damage would be done to a mast.
Civils cost a fortune to do - just paying for the licence before you even start to do work

Should be some kind of municipal right of access to provide utilities should be extended to telecoms rather than some land owner demanding massive amounts of money for a wayleave.

Poulgorm · 16-08-2018 09:48PM

The Cush wrote: »

In today's Indo, Dept of Communications is to announce the award of the NBP contract on Sept 16th.

Having only one tenderer will definitely speed up the whole tender process!

It may not be very economical, but who cares at this stage - just get it done.

Marlow · 16-08-2018 09:49PM

fritzelly wrote: »

But does cable last longer - seems in Ireland half the time eir are constantly repairing/replacing broken lines.

The overhead ones. Yes. The undergrounds ones. No.

fritzelly wrote: »

Civils cost a fortune to do - just paying for the licence before you even start to do work

Well .. Nail on the head there: The license ... and that is something, that the Goverment can sort, regulate and make feasable ... if they wanted to.

It's because they don't do that, that it's not happening there either.

/M

Charles Babbage · 16-08-2018 09:52PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Should be some kind of municipal right of access to provide utilities should be extended to telecoms rather than some land owner demanding massive amounts of money for a wayleave.

Either that or add it to the electricity network. The electricity network, poles etc., has to me maintained anyway and is pretty reliable nowadays bar the odd hurricane. I'm not sure maintaining two sets of poles to outlying dwellings makes sense, but you must have cable.

Marlow · 16-08-2018 09:54PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Either that or add it to the electricity network. The electricity network, poles etc., has to me maintained anyway and is pretty reliable nowadays bar the odd hurricane. I'm not sure maintaining two sets of poles to outlying dwellings makes sense, but you must have cable.

Do I have to remind you of Kerry ?

Or the general issue of fiber-donuts on power infrastructure being shot at to archieve grief which may result in more money ?

/M

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 09:56PM

Marlow wrote: »

Do I have to remind you of Kerry ?

Or the general issue of fiber-donuts on power infrastructure being shot at to archieve grief which may result in more money ?

/M

Please tell - don't remember anything.

listermint · 16-08-2018 10:02PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Please tell - don't remember anything.

Fritz .

Even the head of the FCC in the US has stated on numerous times that wireless is not a substitute for fibre.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/fcc-chairman-mobile-broadband-service-not-a-full-substitute-for-fixed-service

My I remind you he worked for Verizon who are at the fore front of 5g rollout in the us. So he has some background of it.

So over to you Fritz.

Marlow · 16-08-2018 10:03PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Please tell - don't remember anything.

I remember a court case of several farmers blocking the ESB of upgrading powerlines in Kerry, because they were trying to get more money as the power lines also were to be upgraded for running fiber along them. Can't find a reference to said case.

However, here is another case, that I remember .... that caused an equal problem: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/esb-wins-appeal-over-legality-of-procedure-to-enter-onto-lands-837984.html

Said case is a situation that will prevent powerlines from being used for fiber because it becomes unservicable.

There is a similar problem with using the ducting, that was put in place on the M4, M6 and other motorways.

No provider will use this ducting because in the case of a fault, it takes several weeks notice to all involved parties to get access to said fiber to repair it. As long as these laws don't get changed, the ducting is unviable to use.

All of these incidents are down to the government, law and regulation. As long as they don't get taken care of and a clear framework is created in which communicaiton lines can be serviced within a reasonable (quick) timeframe, nobody is going to install communication lines along these routes.

/M

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 10:22PM

listermint wrote: »

Fritz .

Even the head of the FCC in the US has stated on numerous times that wireless is not a substitute for fibre.

https://www.fiercewireless.com/wireless/fcc-chairman-mobile-broadband-service-not-a-full-substitute-for-fixed-service

My I remind you he worked for Verizon who are at the fore front of 5g rollout in the us. So he has some background of it.

So over to you Fritz.

Wasn't stating it as a solution - just interesting reading (and you misquoted me)

fritzelly · 16-08-2018 10:29PM

@Marlow
I assume they bought the land knowing full well the wayleave was in existence (in the case you linked). Makes a mockery of doing anything in this country that you have to go to court to do anything (bit like those people objecting to Apple - one being a land owner thinking they were gonna use his land and none of them from the area)
Situations like this should be stopped before they even get to court and wasting everyones time and money.

Marlow · 16-08-2018 10:30PM

fritzelly wrote: »

@Marlow
I assume they bought the land knowing full well the wayleave was in existence (in the case you linked). Makes a mockery of doing anything in this country that you have to go to court to do anything (bit like those people objecting to Apple - one being a land owner thinking they were gonna use his land and none of them from the area)
Situations like this should be stopped before they even get to court and wasting everyones time and money.

And these are the reason, that we can't get anything done infrastructure wise ... or at least not in a timely fashion.

Besides ... Amazons new build near Dublin also got objections (Finglas I think) ... from the same muppet in Athenry, that objected to Apples datacentre.

And the Apple datacentre got objections from people in Wicklow, who were the second choice for Apples datacentre build. Just that the problem with that was, that they actually should have handed the land back the bank or sold and paid their debts already. Instead of they sold the land to their own shell company and told the bank nothing.

And the big development for the chinese industry in Athlone got objected on the basis that it might turn into a ghost development. Talking about stopping progess before it even can be made. By the time the objections got shot down the project was dead.

So instead of a NBP or the likes, the government should put priorities on getting a framework in place where private industry can (under regulation) actually build infrastructure for feasable cost scenarios. We still overpay 10 fold for existing government owned telecoms infrastructure.

/M

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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