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Female sexual harassers and double standards

  • 15-08-2018 09:18AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    When a man is found guilty of sexual harassment, women expect other men to join in unilateral condemnation of his actions.

    The logic doesn't seem to work the other way, though, as seen in the case of Avital Ronell, a professor of German and Comparative Literature at New York University, who has been found responsible, after an internal university investigation, of systematically sexually harassing a male former PhD student, Nimrod Reitman, over a period of three years.

    Reitman stated that Ronell repeatedly kissed and touched him, slept in his bed with him, asked him to lie in her bed, held his hand, constantly texted, emailed and called him, addressed him by pet names including "spaniel cock-er," and refused to work with him if he did not reciprocate. We all know what would happen if a male professor did these things to a female student.

    But how did Ronell's female colleagues respond to the news? A group of them sent a letter to NYU, defending Ronell and trying to smear her accuser. The signatories include a number of top feminist professors, among them Judith Butler, author of the well-known book Gender Trouble. "“We have all seen [Ronell's] relationship with students, and some of us know the individual who has waged this malicious campaign against her,” they wrote.

    There's a blatant double standard here. If women expect men to support them when they accuse powerful men of sexual harassment, they should also be willing to support male victims after a powerful woman has been found guilty. But they don't. Instead, they turn on the man and attack him, accusing him of waging a "malicious campaign."

    So much for #MeToo.

    New York Times story here.


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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    When a man is found guilty of sexual harassment, women expect other men to join in unilateral condemnation of his actions.

    The logic doesn't seem to work the other way, though, as seen in the case of Avital Ronell, a professor of German and Comparative Literature at New York University, who has been found responsible, after an internal university investigation, of systematically sexually harassing a male former PhD student, Nimrod Reitman, over a period of three years.

    Reitman stated that Ronell repeatedly kissed and touched him, slept in his bed with him, asked him to lie in her bed, held his hand, constantly texted, emailed and called him, addressed him by pet names including "spaniel cock-er," and refused to work with him if he did not reciprocate. We all know what would happen if a male professor did these things to a female student.

    But how did Ronell's female colleagues respond to the news? A group of them sent a letter to NYU, defending Ronell and trying to smear her accuser. The signatories include a number of top feminist professors, among them Judith Butler, author of the well-known book Gender Trouble. "“We have all seen [Ronell's] relationship with students, and some of us know the individual who has waged this malicious campaign against her,” they wrote.

    There's a blatant double standard here. If women expect men to support them when they accuse powerful men of sexual harassment, they should also be willing to support male victims after a powerful woman has been found guilty. But they don't. Instead, they turn on the man and attack him, accusing him of waging a "malicious campaign."

    So much for #MeToo.

    New York Times story here.

    Shared this yesterday on a different thread. I imagine the feminists are circling the wagons and blaming the bloke as we speak.

    Two faced harridans that they are!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    I just can't keep up with all the social and fun threads flooding this forum these days.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,726 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    So one or two cases like this justify not supporting women when men harass women?
    that doesn't seem logical.

    Even if some women attacked this man then if that means you use this as a reason to not support other women when they are sexually harassed then you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    JJJJNR wrote: »
    This should encourage more men to speak out about this type of abuse.

    I'd like to think so but given the reaction I highly doubt it.

    Never a woman's fault apparently.

    I'm definitely identifying as a gay man in a female body. Being a woman isn't doing it for me, they're nuts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,496 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    I just can't keep up with all the social and fun threads flooding this forum these days.

    It must be killing you having to post in them all...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Cleopatra_


    I just can't keep up with all the social and fun threads flooding this forum these days.

    There should just be one women bashing mega thread, one dole bashing one and one immigrant one. So then I can easily avoid them all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So one or two cases like this justify not supporting women when men harass women?
    that doesn't seem logical.

    Even if some women attacked this man then if that means you use this as a reason to not support other women when they are sexually harassed then you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

    That’s what you took out of the original post???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Even if some women attacked this man then if that means you use this as a reason to not support other women when they are sexually harassed then you need to take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror.

    Eh? :confused:

    Where did I say that female victims of sexual harassment don't deserve support?

    Of course they do. But male victims also deserve support. The double standards are very evident in this case, because these feminist professors would be the first to attack any male accused of harassing a woman. But when the victim is a man, they attack him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 761 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    As a man I would love to be sexually harassed by a female co worker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    This thread is really just an excuse for the OP to feel like he's the victim.

    Is the story he discusses horrible? Yes.

    Does it allow him to say that women are hypocrites? No.

    Believe it or not women are not a homogenous group represented by the women in that story.
    Probably doesn't matter though since the OP has taken one example and decided that "women" have double standards.
    I think it says more about them rather than "women"


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,229 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    As a man I would love to be sexually harassed by a female co worker.

    There’s a world of a difference between sexual attention and sexual harassment.


  • Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nimrod...haha..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Nimrod


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    It must be killing you having to post in them all...

    A post or two a week won't kill me.

    It must be a sad life if you're posting incessantly about this kind of crap though.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Cleopatra_ wrote: »
    There should just be one women bashing mega thread, one dole bashing one and one immigrant one. So then I can easily avoid them all.

    This woman deserves to be "bashed".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭w/s/p/c/


    Nimrod... what a tremendous name


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    This woman deserves to be "bashed".



    Are you not the one raising concerns about bullying a few days ago?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Lau2976


    This exact thing literally happens to women who report sexual harrasment all the time? It’s not a gender specific thing.

    If I said all men sexual haress women would you agree? It would be #notallmen but a few internet crazies do this and suddenly all women everywhere are being condemned.

    A hell of a lot more men sexually haress women then there are women supporting this woman so my above statement would be MORE accurate. And I still wouldn’t state it. But let’s ignore facts in favour of another woman bashing thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    I'd like to think so but given the reaction I highly doubt it.

    Never a woman's fault apparently.

    I'm definitely identifying as a gay man in a female body. Being a woman isn't doing it for me, they're nuts.


    You have got to be the try-hardiest try-hard that ever tried Too Damn Hard.

    As to the original story, I'm sad but not surprised that colleagues circled the wagons to protect one of their own - people always find it easier to believe that an outsider is lying than accept that someone they know could behave like that. It's the shared experience of most people who try to report sexual harassment, especially in an institution or workplace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭khaldrogo


    Cabaal wrote:
    So one or two cases like this justify not supporting women when men harass women? that doesn't seem logical.


    Pretty sure he didn't say anything like that at all


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    When a man is found guilty of sexual harassment, women expect other men to join in unilateral condemnation of his actions

    Was this voted on at the women's convention?

    People defend abusers all the time.

    If this was about a man harassing a woman there would absolutely be comments to the tune of. "Over three years?? How come he didn't report it straight away? Obviously he used her attraction to him to his advantage, then turned around to complain for attention once it suited him, its an insult to TRUE victims of abuse". Some of them would probably be from women as well.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    There’s a world of a difference between sexual attention and sexual harassment.

    100% agree. unfortunately, alot of people these days have a problem differentiating between the 2.

    paying somebody a "you look nice today" compliment is seen as harassment by many people now for example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,442 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    paying somebody a "you look nice today" compliment is seen as harassment by many people now for example.

    No it's not. Unless you're talking to their tits.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,810 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Nimrod...haha..

    Exactly......you go by the name Nimrod, you get what you deserve.

    Case dismissed:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,254 ✭✭✭Kevin Finnerty


    100% agree. unfortunately, alot of people these days have a problem differentiating between the 2.

    paying somebody a "you look nice today" compliment is seen as harassment by many people now for example.

    My sentiments exactly. Offence taken to a new level.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭Keepaneye


    Cleopatra_ wrote: »
    There should just be one women bashing mega thread, one dole bashing one and one immigrant one. So then I can easily avoid them all.

    Can we also have a metoo mega thread? Since all your man hating needs an outlet.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    B0jangles wrote: »
    You have got to be the try-hardiest try-hard that ever tried Too Damn Hard..

    Meaning ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    RWCNT wrote: »
    People defend abusers all the time.

    Maybe you don't see the irony of feminist professors who have built their careers decrying the patriarchy and the oppression of women now circling the wagons to defend a sexual harasser.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,853 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    As a man I would love to be sexually harassed by a female co worker.

    its never like the movies though :eek:

    ronell.jpg

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,766 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Keepaneye wrote: »
    Can we also have a metoo mega thread? Since all your man hating needs an outlet.

    It would be discrimination not to.


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