Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 02:55PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/oldest-greek-fragment-homer-discovered-clay-tablet-180969602/

How sad would it be if the ancient stuff stopped being taught and discoveries couldn't be made? I think it's a bit much to call studying the beginnings of civilisation merely a hobby.

Gender studies adds nothing to the world so I wouldn't really deem it as being singled out.

I never said stop teaching it I said they shouldnt cost the same

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 02:56PM

Lux23 wrote: »

You have a troll account? So you can harass people?[/QUOTE]

On twitter?

Malayalam · 13-08-2018 02:56PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I've read de Sade, cards on table - at 17 and I wanted to shock the nuns!

Very interesting though, not what you'd expect. You can't go wrong with Nietzsche in my opinion if you're seeking dark nihilism.

Machiavelli's "The Prince" is a damn good read too.

I am not a fan of nihilism in the least, sorry, we will have to part ways on that subject

I don't like Nietzsche, even though I delve into his works occasionally still, because they are so amusingly gloomy, and I do not like de Sade at all, at all. The point here is that these thinkers provide the foundational thinking to the divisive identity politics we see now.

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 02:57PM

Mackmatic wrote: »

A troll Twitter account? Are you for real?

If you are anything other than an edgy little 12 year old, then that is pretty pathetic and embarrassing.

I'm 13

13-08-2018 02:58PM

mvl wrote: »

But so many of you seem to be hooked up with the gender debate.

That's going on and on ... on so many threads already.

Because it is relevant and should be discussed at every opportunity.

Look at the US. No, seriously. Look at the state of US universities today with the degree of paranoia about assault/harassment, or gender rights. have a browse through the dozens of articles written about incredibly simple cases but given heavy handed sentencing...

All as a result of the rise of Feminism within the Universities, Academia, and university administrations. In the 80s/90s, these people were dismissed as crackpots, and it was believed they would go the same way as political groups (like Marxism, communism etc), but that didn't happen. Instead, ignoring the rise of these ideas, encouraged them to spread, and become actually welcomed in our various societies as indications for the need to change. Doesn't matter that so much of the assumptions are made under false pretenses, or that the research itself is flawed...

The Gender debate needs to be encouraged so that we don't follow suit with the US and encourage this divisive paranoia about all things gender related.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 03:00PM

Malayalam wrote: »

I am not a fan of nihilism in the least, sorry, we will have to part ways on that subject I don't like Nietzsche, even though I delve into his works occasionally still, because they are so amusingly gloomy, and I do not like de Sade at all, at all. The point here is that these thinkers provide the foundational thinking to the divisive identity politics we see now.

Ah but see we're disagreeing but civilly and not that far apart.

Wouldn't get that in a gender studies classroom!!!

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 13-08-2018 03:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it's a bit much to call studying the beginnings of civilisation merely a hobby.

He mentioned a degree in medieval literature, which is very far from the "beginnings of civilization."

Gender studies adds nothing to the world so I wouldn't really deem it as being singled out.

What does reading Chaucer add to the world?

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 03:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it is relevant and should be discussed at every opportunity.

Look at the US. No, seriously. Look at the state of US universities today with the degree of paranoia about assault/harassment, or gender rights. have a browse through the dozens of articles written about incredibly simple cases but given heavy handed sentencing...

All as a result of the rise of Feminism within the Universities, Academia, and university administrations. In the 80s/90s, these people were dismissed as crackpots, and it was believed they would go the same way as political groups (like Marxism, communism etc), but that didn't happen. Instead, ignoring the rise of these ideas, encouraged them to spread, and become actually welcomed in our various societies as indications for the need to change. Doesn't matter that so much of the assumptions are made under false pretenses, or that the research itself is flawed...

The Gender debate needs to be encouraged so that we don't follow suit with the US and encourage this divisive paranoia about all things gender related.

Speaking of America:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6051917/Footballing-starlet-falsely-accused-raping-student-says-ordeal-left-broken.html

Colleges in the US are now a feminist led mess.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 03:03PM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

He mentioned a degree in medieval literature, which is very far from the "beginnings of civilization."

What does reading Chaucer add to the world?

If it's like the books I did for A Level - a migraine at the language and sniggering at a nun explaining what a nether yaya was.

But like any literature - comprehension and critical thinking skills. Being able to argue your point rationally and provide evidence.

mvl · 13-08-2018 03:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it is relevant and should be discussed at every opportunity.

Look at the US. No, seriously. Look at the state of US universities today with the degree of paranoia about assault/harassment, or gender rights. have a browse through the dozens of articles written about incredibly simple cases but given heavy handed sentencing...

All as a result of the rise of Feminism within the Universities, Academia, and university administrations. In the 80s/90s, these people were dismissed as crackpots, and it was believed they would go the same way as political extremist groups, but that didn't happen. Instead, ignoring the rise of these ideas, encouraged them to spread, and become actually welcomed in our various societies as indications for the need to change. Doesn't matter that so much of the assumptions are made under false pretenses, or that the research itself is flawed...

The Gender debate needs to be encouraged so that we don't follow suit with the US and encourage this divisive paranoia about all things gender related.

But can we keep it to the Hungarian problem at least on this thread: where the prime minister that already has his "Stop Soros bill", and so now he decides to ban courses from private funded universities ?!? I would not spend time and money on such masters/phd myself.
But is this level of state intervention normal to your occidental standards ?

mvl · 13-08-2018 03:07PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Speaking of America:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6051917/Footballing-starlet-falsely-accused-raping-student-says-ordeal-left-broken.html

Colleges in the US are now a feminist led mess.

Funny enough - as there is a strong bond between Orban and Trump.
Maybe one would teach the other some lessons some day.

Taytoland · 13-08-2018 03:08PM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

If you can get a job directly in the field of your degree (medicine, law, science, IT, etc etc) then you get a grant.

If you want to fanny about (pun intended) doing gender based nonsense - pay for it yourself.

And if you want to fanny about studying ancient archeology or Greek philosophy or modern art?

Not remotely comparable.

13-08-2018 03:11PM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

He mentioned a degree in medieval literature, which is very far from the "beginnings of civilization."

Someone mentioned ancient Greek a couple of pages ago. And anyways, it's all history that led to now.

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

What does reading Chaucer add to the world?

It's more about preventing the loss of something.

I'm pretty jaded with the cog in the wheel stuff that the vast majority end up doing so while objectively, I know that engineering brings more value, I don't think it is so great that the classic be sidelined.

Gender studies is none of these things.

13-08-2018 03:12PM

mvl wrote: »

But can we keep it to the Hungarian problem at least on this thread: where the prime minister that already has his "Stop Soros bill", and so now he decides to ban courses from private funded universities ?!? I would not spend time and money on such masters/phd myself.

Well, I'd suggest that he could have seen the effects of Gender Studies or other similar programs as provided in Western countries, and decided he didn't want such behavior encouraged in Hungary.

It's not as if the Gender conflict happening in the west is a well hidden secret. I've had my Chinese students comment about the tensions between the Genders in the West and their opinions on where it will lead to.

But is this level of state intervention normal to your occidental standards ?

Nope, but then I wouldn't immediately consider Hungary to fall under any western standards... TBH, I know very little about Hungary which is why I've tried not to state any definite opinions on the subject.

Lux23 · 13-08-2018 03:14PM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Lux23 wrote: »

You have a troll account? So you can harass people?[/QUOTE]

On twitter?

Yea, why do you have a troll account? What's the purpose?

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 03:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Someone mentioned ancient Greek a couple of pages ago. And anyways, it's all history that led to now.

It's more about preventing the loss of something.

I'm pretty jaded with the cog in the wheel stuff that the vast majority end up doing so while objectively, I know that engineering brings more value, I don't think it is so great that the classic be sidelined.

Gender studies is none of these things.

One of the reasons stated for scrapping Gender Studies was it is not economically viable. Please tell me how a degree in Medieval Lit is economically viable?

13-08-2018 03:22PM

Rory28 wrote: »

One of the reasons stated for scrapping Gender Studies was it is not economically viable. Please tell me how a degree in Medieval Lit is economically viable?

It may not be economically viable but studying it might teach you that horrendous strawmen like what you just hurled at me don't work.

At least have respect for the people you're arguing with. I'm not a retarded 12-year-old who is going to start defending points I never made.

13-08-2018 03:26PM

Rory28 wrote: »

One of the reasons stated for scrapping Gender Studies was it is not economically viable. Please tell me how a degree in Medieval Lit is economically viable?

That it was not economically viable in Hungary. Not that it wasn't a viable job elsewhere.

I'm curious to know if you have any information that actually shows he was wrong in what he stated? Or is this simply that you're right and he's wrong, because he shouldn't be banning any university courses?

Ulysses Gaze · 13-08-2018 03:27PM

Rory28 wrote: »

One of the reasons stated for scrapping Gender Studies was it is not economically viable. Please tell me how a degree in Medieval Lit is economically viable?

Not everyone is cut out to be an Engineer, Software Developer, Accountant or Doctor. Academically or otherwise.

Jeez...this sounds like the type of bull**** I heard during the recession.

"Ah, let's just turn all the unemployed Builders into Software Developers."

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 03:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It may not be economically viable but studying it might teach you that horrendous strawmen like what you just hurled at me don't work.

At least have respect for the people you're arguing with. I'm not a retarded 12-year-old who is going to start defending points I never made.

Its not a strawman and you brought emotives into it so stop with the respect nonsense. You seem to think I said that gender studies is on a level playing field with Medieval Lit. I don't but from an economic point of view they are. This is the topic of the thread not that they are comparable on their academic merit. You brought that into it.

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 03:29PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Not everyone is cut out to be an Engineer, Software Developer, Accountant or Doctor. Academically or otherwise.

Jeez...this sounds like the type of bull**** I heard during the recession.

"Ah, let's just turn all the unemployed Builders into Software Developers."

Christ on a bike.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-08-2018 03:33PM

Rory28 wrote: »

Christ on a bike.

I guess whatever degree you did helped you formulate that reasoned response.

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 03:35PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

I guess whatever degree you did helped you formulate that reasoned response.

And whatever degree you got managed to extrapolate from my post that all builders should be software developers. We are quite the pair.

13-08-2018 03:35PM

Rory28 wrote: »

Its not a strawman and you brought emotives into it so stop with the respect nonsense. You seem to think I said that gender studies is on a level playing field with Medieval Lit. I don't but from an economic point of view they are. This is the topic of the thread not that they are comparable on their academic merit. You brought that into it.

No, I didn't. I joined this thread late while it was already being discussed. And I was giving the opinion that these subjects are worth whatever lack of economic advantages they bring.

This is a forum and topics end up encompassing more than the OP, especially 24 pages in.

JohnMc1 · 13-08-2018 03:36PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Not everyone is cut out to be an Engineer, Software Developer, Accountant or Doctor. Academically or otherwise.

Jeez...this sounds like the type of bull**** I heard during the recession.

"Ah, let's just turn all the unemployed Builders into Software Developers."

While there is truth in that its not a good excuse to go and get a worthless degree.

We need to bring back the Trade Schools [or atleast promote their existence]. Train students to become Plumbers, Electricians, HVAC technicians. While they're not glamorous job they are well paying jobs and will always be in demand.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 03:38PM

Rory28 wrote: »

Its not a strawman and you brought emotives into it so stop with the respect nonsense. You seem to think I said that gender studies is on a level playing field with Medieval Lit. I don't but from an economic point of view they are. This is the topic of the thread not that they are comparable on their academic merit. You brought that into it.

Well for example - and I'm no Professor - but say the topic comes up regarding Dante. You can argue themes, meanings, the role of Virgil (why he can't enter Paradise etc) - translations and their merits (did Dorothy L Sayers but a different spin on some points than say, Longfellow ?).

All of these points - and dozens and dozens of others can be raised, argued, debated, questioned - and everyone may have their own thoughts. You'll get spirited arguments and increase the knowledge of the text.

Compare that to gender studies. Say the premise is "women are always put down by men" - there will be no argument allowed to that; no spirited debate - just the commentator being denounced as a sexist pig.

batgoat · 13-08-2018 03:42PM

JohnMc1 wrote: »

While there is truth in that its not a good excuse to go and get a worthless degree.

We need to bring back the Trade Schools [or atleast promote their existence]. Train students to become Plumbers, Electricians, HVAC technicians. While they're not glamorous job they are well paying jobs and will always be in demand.

I have what many would call a useless degree since my profession doesn't relate to either English or history but it's very much so assisted with my career, I view things from a different perspective from most of my colleagues and that's advantageous. Something that might outwardly seem a bit pointless or useless can be highly useful if done properly and a student engages with it.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 03:43PM

batgoat wrote: »

I have what many would call a useless degree since my profession doesn't relate to either English or history but it's very much so assisted with my career, I view things from a different perspective from most of my colleagues and that's advantageous. Something that might outwardly seem a bit pointless or useless can be highly useful if done properly and a student engages with it.

Then it's not useless - it got you a job.

Be proud!

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 03:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That it was not economically viable in Hungary. Not that it wasn't a viable job elsewhere.

I'm curious to know if you have any information that actually shows he was wrong in what he stated? Or is this simply that you're right and he's wrong, because he shouldn't be banning any university courses?

My only concern is he signalled out one course. If he scrapped all state funding for courses that are not economically viable I'd agree with him. Signalling out one, even if I think its a pointless course, is where I have an issue.

LLMMLL · 13-08-2018 03:43PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Compare that to gender studies. Say the premise is "women are always put down by men" - there will be no argument allowed to that; no spirited debate - just the commentator being denounced as a sexist pig.

Only in the imaginary gender studies courses that exist in the minds of people in this thread.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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