Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 10:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure, I get (now) what you're talking about, but we're still talking about Gender studies here. You've just acknowledged that the research/peer related material used is dodgy... so why defend it's inclusion in Universities?

The problem is that Gender studies does have an influence in the world. The changes in our society (Okay, less so in Ireland, but it's spreading in other countries) reflect this drive to push one gender over another. Gender Studies is still predominately pro-female with many articles pointing to how men are the aggressors against females, being very selective in what Statistics or research they use to justify their stance.

Now, if we were talking about throwing in the caveat that Gender Studies should not be taken seriously, and encouraging people to treat it the same as many nightcourses, then I could understand the objections better. However, this thread seems to suggest that people are defending gender studies being banned simply because Orban is disliked.

Actually, I'm a Pisces, and rather true to my nature.

My dad's Pisces - they're generally lovely!

I'm Aries. You don''t want to argue with me lol!!!

Malayalam · 13-08-2018 10:48AM

DONTFORGET wrote: »

Like the last time. Problem is that you keep responding to people you have on ignore. Silly man.

I thought Plane Speaking was a female

Mind you I also though Freshpopcorn was as well. I don't seem to be very good at this.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 10:50AM

Malayalam wrote: »

I thought Plane Speaking was a female Mind you I also though Freshpopcorn was as well. I don't seem to be very good at this.

I am - ignore the re-reg, the misandrist cannot accept that there are women who disagree with the point of view.

You're spot on!!!

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 10:50AM

DONTFORGET wrote: »

They're angry because their day is over. Women are getting equal rights now. There's a huge campaign against rapists and the culture that allows this. All decent men and women are in support of this, the angry men are not.

:D:D

mvl · 13-08-2018 10:52AM

Funny - I thought this thread would disappear by now ... (as threads that are not behaved do disappear on AH).

All type of academic censorship is wrong. Particular this one doesn't make sense to me because there should be (other) genders that need to be studied for the future of our humanity (e.g. mechanical genders ?!?).
So it sounds to me this is just Orban messing it up again. And very sad that he seem to have supporters in here when he's doing it.
Actually, it sounds to me he delivers on his promises. As documented in https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/30/danger-hungary-verge-full-blown-autocracy-viktor-orban-vengeance :
Having bussed tens of thousands of supporters into Budapest for a pre-election “peace march” on 15 March, prime minister Viktor Orbán addressed them, promising that after his victory on 8 April he will deal with those who oppose him by “moral, political and legal means”.

Chris_Heilong · 13-08-2018 10:55AM

Well done Hungary, they are really doing things right over there, why cant our country be more like this?

13-08-2018 10:58AM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here.

Well... if they're funded by the State, then, the State and it's body of education would have direct control over what is taught.

As much as you may dislike the idea gender studies courses, and as much as I agree with many of your criticisms, it's a dangerous assumption that "we" (as in citizens, voters, or students) should have the right to determine what is or is not taught in universities. That should be the sole prerogative of the universities and their faculty.

So, the university are the only ones to decide what is being taught...? I honestly doubt that's the case in most situations outside of Private institutions.

And I have no problem with the idea of Gender Studies as a course. If it reflected the name with it's content. As things stand it is still women's studies with a new name. That's it.

Faculty are routinely attacked for their research, or for the subject matter of their courses, which is why the concept of academic freedom was created in the first place. In recent years, protesters have targeted everything from literature courses focused on white male writers, to economics courses that allegedly promote neoliberalism. It is up to the universities to stand firm against such idiocy and let academic freedom prevail.

Protecting faculty and their courses against state reprisal is a necessary extension of academic freedom. Therefore, as much as you may dislike gender studies, cheering the government's effort to ban it sets a dangerous precedent.

Why? Sounds suspiciously like tax without representation...

"The business community has too much influence on Ireland’s research agenda, at the expense of non-scientific disciplines, the outgoing president of University College Cork, Michael Murphy, says.

Murphy says business is over-represented on bodies that make important funding decisions, though he wants the sector to continue contributing to higher education, via taxes and philanthropy"

The idea that Universities are islands of authority in how their courses are presented is, personally, naive. The State is going to have influence over what courses are taught and the standard those courses aspire to, otherwise, why fund Universities at all if they present courses that provide no benefit to the country?

Nermal · 13-08-2018 10:58AM

Annabel Ambitious Tinsel wrote: »

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here.

Academic freedom is a myth. Try starting a research programme that challenges the twaddle taught as 'gender studies' and see how much 'academic freedom' you have.

sexmag · 13-08-2018 10:59AM

The people going mad about this are the same people who would be up in arms if they thought creationism, astrology or physic power study in universities.

The public money has been withdrawn,make people pay for the course if they want to do it.

Malayalam · 13-08-2018 10:59AM

DONTFORGET wrote: »

They're angry because their day is over. Women are getting equal rights now. There's a huge campaign against rapists and the culture that allows this. All decent men and women are in support of this, the angry men are not.

People of both sexes are maybe a bit irritable about some of the loopy ''academic'' fcukery that is being pushed as real science. And as for getting their equal rights now - how about this for equality..... The new channel 4 ''advisor on inclusion'' is Sue Pascoe who for 54 of her 58 years was a male but now identifies as a hormonal teenage girl.

"It's funny, I'm 55, I am very hormonal, I am going through puberty again which means that I am just getting to my teenage girl years - so watch out world."

http://www.barcroft.tv/former-hunt-master-sue-pascoe-transgender-journey

So actually due to inherent ideological contradictions women are being squeezed out of gender quotas by people who for the most part of their lives have been men. This is only an example - it's happening in sport, literary short lists, political gender quotas. Rock on.

TomSweeney · 13-08-2018 11:31AM

Malayalam · 13-08-2018 11:45AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Hehe don't worry the age of women is over too. Once we get those external uteruses (uteri?) up and running, and a cryogenic store of scooped eggs and milked sperm stocked by binary drones, then we will all simply be genderless meat suits performing such tasks as machines cannot yet do and consuming mindlessly otherwise. With some elite designer lucky duckys augmented with AI immortality, of course. Can't wait

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 11:46AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Good to see Anne Robinson still famous eh ?

suicide_circus · 13-08-2018 11:56AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdb6aeZxKZU

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 11:59AM

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdb6aeZxKZU

Still hilarious!

suicide_circus · 13-08-2018 12:02PM

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 12:03PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

Bin ?

mvl · 13-08-2018 12:10PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

I'm still waiting for a CV with a gender studies degree to come across my desk.

who is saying these are degrees ? the article I read is saying classes, that do not equal degrees.

suicide_circus · 13-08-2018 12:12PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Bin ?

the rest of it would have to be seriously good to compensate

batgoat · 13-08-2018 12:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well... if they're funded by the State, then, the State and it's body of education would have direct control over what is taught.

So, the university are the only ones to decide what is being taught...? I honestly doubt that's the case in most situations outside of Private institutions.

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 12:16PM

batgoat wrote: »

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

lawred2 · 13-08-2018 12:19PM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Great news coming out of Hungary. Victor Orban's government have stopped universities offering courses in Gender Studies. It's about time these courses were exposed for the unscientific propaganda vehicles they are.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/orban-bans-gender-studies-courses-in-hungary-report-says-1.6365826

what harm do you think those University classes were doing?

mvl · 13-08-2018 12:22PM

batgoat wrote: »

By your logic, a government would be entitled to cut funding for courses that reflect negatively upon the government. So if a politics course reflects negatively on the regime, they can cut funding and that's all good. It's a pretty dangerous line to allow academia to face such control although that's the way Orban is going with every facet of the state, he's even gone as far as warping the constitution to reflect his party's views. NGOs are being cut off because they don't tend to support him.

Logic - what logic ? this thread got way off topic, and in a wrong direction imo.

I would say this measure is same category as Orban's "Soros bill". Unfortunately other countries in the region are following this madness.

Rory28 · 13-08-2018 12:23PM

This is a load of sh1t. I have no time for gender studies or the people that study it but I dont see the point in singling it out as a waste of money. Either stop funding to all frivolous courses or none. I won't pretend to know whats going on over in Hungary but this is worrying.

I am surprised at the amount of people backing this in here.

mvl · 13-08-2018 12:24PM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

ffs - all the Hungarians I have in my family are disgusted with the censorship this prime minister is imposing. so please don't offend the ones that oppose Orban !

LLMMLL · 13-08-2018 12:25PM

Malayalam wrote: »

People of both sexes are maybe a bit irritable about some of the loopy ''academic'' fcukery that is being pushed as real science. And as for getting their equal rights now - how about this for equality..... The new channel 4 ''advisor on inclusion'' is Sue Pascoe who for 54 of her 58 years was a male but now identifies as a hormonal teenage girl.
http://www.barcroft.tv/former-hunt-master-sue-pascoe-transgender-journey

So actually due to inherent ideological contradictions women are being squeezed out of gender quotas by people who for the most part of their lives have been men. This is only an example - it's happening in sport, literary short lists, political gender quotas. Rock on.

That’s a bizarre interpretation of what’s going on there.

Pascoe is a woman so there’s no issue with gender quotas.

The “teenage girl” quote is obviously a tongue in cheek joke about experiencing hormones for the first time being like going through puberty. There is no suggestion that Pascoe thinks she’s a teenage girl.

The fact that you can’t see a clear joke speaks volumes.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 13-08-2018 12:28PM

I have came across CVs of people that have moved into IT from say Civil Engineering or they went back to college as mature students.

Haven't seen anyone with Gender Studies qualifications yet. Doubt I will as (no offence to either group) I wouldn't think there would be much overlap between someone once interested in Gender Studies and now IT - one is very philosophical, the other very science/engineering based.

Not sure how easy it would be to work with someone with a gender studies background - would be concerned at causing offence inadvertently and having a HR nightmare.

Lash Into The Pints · 13-08-2018 12:31PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

That’s a bizarre interpretation of what’s going on there.

Pascoe is a woman so there’s no issue with gender quotas.

The “teenage girl” quote is obviously a tongue in cheek joke about experiencing hormones for the first time being like going through puberty. There is no suggestion that Pascoe thinks she’s a teenage girl.

The fact that you can’t see a clear joke speaks volumes.

No he's a man and he will die a man.

If you believe crude surgery can turn a man into a woman you may as well believe in faries.

batgoat · 13-08-2018 12:33PM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

They support all the globalist, fashionable causes that the Hungarian people don't want imposed on them. Fair play to Hungary for standing up for themselves.

You're supporting an extreme regime that is actively attacking freedoms. This includes freedom of association, academic freedom and freedom of establishment. So praise away but given the other regimes that you seem to adore, your views seem pretty terrible. You've never lived in such places but appear to think that such an extreme regime equates to Utopia when it has more in common with Stalinism or fascism. Eg your example of the Philippines which you appear to like, political opponents are murdered, death squads operate..

LLMMLL · 13-08-2018 12:35PM

Lash Into The Pints wrote: »

No he's a man and he will die a man.

If you believe crude surgery can turn a man into a woman you may as well believe in faries.

She’s a woman.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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