Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

TomSweeney · 13-08-2018 09:06AM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

One of the Gender studies lecturers in UCD has taken the news well.

https://twitter.com/MaryMcAuliffe4/status/1027934366180286465

I have never even interacted with her ...

MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more

- How ironic.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:07AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

I have never even interacted with her ...

MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more

- How ironic.

I have that! Never bloody heard of her!!!!

Free speech indeed eh ?

EDIT - went in via no login:

Gender studies programs to be banned in Hungary- the alt right really fear feminism, because of the chanllege it poses to their misogynist, racist, homophobic worldview. This is the ultimate aim of the right, shut down all dissent, esp in the universities.

Yeah she's lost it!

Oh and she has more - any lads who campaigned against the 8th and for repeal ? Apparently you didn't:

Women activists are so scary ... they get things done, like, oh let me think, #repealedThe8th - we can see why the @RENUAIreland boys find the thought of politically motivated and trained women terrifying &#55357;&#56881;

She needs professional help.

TomSweeney · 13-08-2018 09:11AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Odd - never heard of her but already blocked on her on Twitter!!!

I guess it's the repeal shield ?

I am blocked by a load of the ultra hard core pro choice people too - its funny cos I am pro choice myself, have never even tweeted or liked anything remotely prolife, but still somehow ended up on that list.
Perhaps because I liked or retweeted posts on other topics - but made by pro life users ???.
Pretty silly algorithm if thats the case.

pickarooney · 13-08-2018 09:15AM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of democracy, no. Democracy gives us useless, spineless politicians, endless quangos, corruption, mass immigration, a terrible health service, no houses etc. etc.

You're the one who doesn't like so-called democracy and thinks every country should be bullied by allegedly benign NGO who most definitely are completely impartial (sarcasm). As for there being a "reason Hungary is being viewed more and more as authoritarian" why don't you think for yourself instead of believing what everyone else says.

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Which non-democratic countries boast low levels of corruption and a high quality health service?

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:17AM

pickarooney wrote: »

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Which non-democratic countries boast low levels of corruption and a high quality health service?

Well the last part - Cuba.

pickarooney · 13-08-2018 09:20AM

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Only today I read an article about how white male professors in the UK will now be assigned younger black women as "mentors" to teach them about unconscious bias under a new government-funded scheme

Was that article on xhamster by any chance?

TomSweeney · 13-08-2018 09:23AM

batgoat wrote: »

This is a bit like those people who admire Putin for being a hard man and ignore the terrible things that occur under him. You've literally fallen for the propaganda of a pretty dodgy government which will likely go fully authoritarian in the coming years. I'm pretty proud I don't support a xenophobic, anti democratic and corrupt regime cause that's exactly what it is.

That sounds a lot like Islam, whats your stance on that I wonder ?

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:26AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Was that article on xhamster by any chance?

Whatever that is!!!

** deletes tablet browser history **

Grayson · 13-08-2018 09:27AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

She needs professional help.

In a previous account didn't you say that ethnic cleansing against muslims was ok? And you think that she needs profesional help because she thinks that a right wing pro catholic group would not want people studying gender studies.

The hypocrisy in this thread is ridiculous. There are people here cheering on a government that's removing courses from a university because the political party in power disagrees with the course and yet they'd bitch and whine about someone being removed from youtube for breaking the rules. They actively support political meddling in universities. They're the kind of idiots who would complain about safe spaces because they feel that universities should have open dialogue but at the same time they support this.

And btw, there's no hypocrisy on my part. I think stuff like theology should be taught in universities. So should ancient history, philosophy, social sciences, psychology and all the others. I also think that a government shouldn't interfere in what's taught in them.

Nermal · 13-08-2018 09:28AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

He is trying to ban CEU

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/04/hungary-shut-university-170405104057150.html

:rolleyes:

Foreign interference in elections bad!

Foreign interference in third-level education good!

How do you people never tire of double standards?

Grayson · 13-08-2018 09:29AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

That sounds a lot like Islam, whats your stance on that I wonder ?

Islam is a regime? It's a big monolithic block? Or it has a single ruling structure? I'm not sure you know what a regime is.

Grayson · 13-08-2018 09:42AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender stiudies courses tend to use research that is based on academic publishing... along with Feminist ideology which is again heavily influenced by academic publishing so....

I don't get your objection, TBH.

Which is what all such research should be doing.... and again, I don't get your objection. Or are you simply arguing for the sake of it?

Not really. These courses have a purpose now. For those people who want the introduction of Quotas, and these graduates will be there to maintain the need for quotas and other such initiatives for "equality". There will be a need for employees who have been trained to be "fair" to women to ensure that equality for [insert gender, race etc here] exists, and then we'll need similar people to be there to report on it in the media.

TBH I suspect these days having a Gender studies qualification, combined with any other industry related Masters qualification, [and being female] would be a guarantee for work and speedy promotions.

Read the articles I linked. I realise the guardian one is long but it's very interesting. The problem isn't with gender studies. This exists in every single discipline. Companies like informa pretty much cornered the market in academic journals. And because academics are pushed to publish they created pay for publish journals. These exist in every field. Universities also have to buy these journals. If they want one respected journal, they have to buy them all.

So what informa did was create loads of dodgy journals. They fill them up with any old crap. It doesn't matter what's in them at all, all that matters is that they can fill them and get them out. The same thing happens with conferences. A few years ago a guy got a paper accepted for a pay to speak academic conference. The guy wrote that paper, I believe it was about physics, using autocomplete on his iphone. It made even less sense than that gender studies paper because the sentences didn't even make sense.

Now the fact that this guy got his "physics" paper accepted for the conference doesn't mean that physics is a subject which is rubbish. But you use a similar exercise with gender studies to try and show that gender studies is a rubbish subject. It doesn't prove that that at all. It just proves that these predatory journals and conferences are dodgy as hell. And as the articles I linked showed the academic community is aware of this.

silverharp · 13-08-2018 09:43AM

its a minor issue as i believe there are only around 13 "students" in the whole country, less trust fund malcontents I'd imagine. still one would be p1ssed if state funds where used to teach homeopathy or toothiology , this is the same

Grayson · 13-08-2018 09:45AM

silverharp wrote: »

its a minor issue as i believe there are only around 13 "students" in the whole country, less trust fund malcontents I'd imagine. still one would be p1ssed if state funds where used to teach homeopathy or toothiology , this is the same

It's not the fcuking same.

pickarooney · 13-08-2018 09:49AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't dislike Astrology because it doesn't encourage a line of thought that pits one gender against another.

Typical bloody Capricorn. When are you lot going to learn your place?

TheQuietFella · 13-08-2018 09:54AM

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

Great news coming out of Hungary. Victor Orban's government have stopped universities offering courses in Gender Studies. It's about time these courses were exposed for the unscientific propaganda vehicles they are.

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/orban-bans-gender-studies-courses-in-hungary-report-says-1.6365826

Can someone please explain what you learn or are taught in Gender Studies please!

The Bishop Basher · 13-08-2018 10:01AM

I support free speech and so I have no issue with universities teaching this wiffle waffle if people are dumb enough to sign up for it.

I do have a problem with the wiffle waffle itself though and I equally should have the right so say what I think about it but that right is being steadily eroded and as recent threads show, our hands our often bound on here too.

It can’t all be one way.

We can’t let this nonsense go unchallenged.

silverharp · 13-08-2018 10:04AM

Grayson wrote: »

It's not the fcuking same.

ah but it is, pseudo intellectual science denying guff

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 10:05AM

Even MIT, long at the top of the world university rankings, has fallen prey to the bollocks:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/womens-and-gender-studies/wgs-101-introduction-to-womens-and-gender-studies-fall-2014/syllabus/

One of the "learning" outcomes:

How do we explain the sexual division of labor and the unequal social status of women and girls and those activities and roles deemed "feminine" in society?

Nice bit of prejudice there eh ?

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 10:06AM

silverharp wrote: »

ah but it is, pseudo intellectual science denying guff

Actually it's not always - homeopathy, while largely utter garbage and certainly not anywhere near medicine - MIGHT work if someone is suitably gullible enough to believe, never underestimate a weak mind and the placebo effect.

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 10:08AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

I have never even interacted with her ...

MaryMcAuliffe4MaryMcAuliffe4's Tweets. Learn more

- How ironic.

You must be on the repeal shield snowflake list. Lots of people who have never even discussed abortion are on it.

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 10:09AM

Grayson wrote: »

It's not the fcuking same.

You're right. Gender Studies is much worse.

silverharp · 13-08-2018 10:17AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Actually it's not always - homeopathy, while largely utter garbage and certainly not anywhere near medicine - MIGHT work if someone is suitably gullible enough to believe, never underestimate a weak mind and the placebo effect.

so that puts it ahead of gender studies :pac:

DickSwiveller Returns · 13-08-2018 10:18AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

State censorship wanting to shut down dissent is the problem. I would have thought that was obvious.

They're refusing to fund a course that engages in junk science. Fair play to them.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 10:19AM

silverharp wrote: »

so that puts it ahead of gender studies :pac:

Exactly!!!!

Not by much I'll grant you!

13-08-2018 10:21AM

Grayson wrote: »

Now the fact that this guy got his "physics" paper accepted for the conference doesn't mean that physics is a subject which is rubbish. But you use a similar exercise with gender studies to try and show that gender studies is a rubbish subject. It doesn't prove that that at all. It just proves that these predatory journals and conferences are dodgy as hell. And as the articles I linked showed the academic community is aware of this.

Sure, I get (now) what you're talking about, but we're still talking about Gender studies here. You've just acknowledged that the research/peer related material used is dodgy... so why defend it's inclusion in Universities?

The problem is that Gender studies does have an influence in the world. The changes in our society (Okay, less so in Ireland, but it's spreading in other countries) reflect this drive to push one gender over another. Gender Studies is still predominately pro-female with many articles pointing to how men are the aggressors against females, being very selective in what Statistics or research they use to justify their stance.

Now, if we were talking about throwing in the caveat that Gender Studies should not be taken seriously, and encouraging people to treat it the same as many nightcourses, then I could understand the objections better. However, this thread seems to suggest that people are defending gender studies being banned simply because Orban is disliked.

pickarooney wrote: »

Typical bloody Capricorn. When are you lot going to learn your place?

Actually, I'm a Pisces, and rather true to my nature.

GarIT · 13-08-2018 10:31AM

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Can someone please explain what you learn or are taught in Gender Studies please!

How women are disadvantaged while completely ignoring any relevant advantages.

How anything that makes a woman uncomfortable is rape even if it is just someone looking at them.

How female sexuality is to be treasured while male sexuality is disgusting.

How women should only date the guys they like but a man rejecting someone is discrimination.

How hairdressers and child minders should earn as much as engineers and programmers because we need to balance the pay of women and men even those those differences mostly only occur between professions and not within them and also for example how nurses should earn as much as doctors or even surgeons.

The most important thing they learn is that there is absolutely no difference between men and women and any differences are made up except when they benefit women.

meeeeh · 13-08-2018 10:33AM

pickarooney wrote: »

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of democracy, no. Democracy gives us useless, spineless politicians, endless quangos, corruption, mass immigration, a terrible health service, no houses etc. etc.

You're the one who doesn't like so-called democracy and thinks every country should be bullied by allegedly benign NGO who most definitely are completely impartial (sarcasm). As for there being a "reason Hungary is being viewed more and more as authoritarian" why don't you think for yourself instead of believing what everyone else says.

How does democracy, as compared to other forms of government, lead to corruption and a terrible health service?

Actually under Orban corruption is increasing and Hungary is falling on European Health Index. It must be that Orban's is exactly the type of political system DS is raving against.

Malayalam · 13-08-2018 10:43AM

Gender studies is based on a core concept of a dominating patriarchy - male is in control, female is oppressed. The male domination/female oppression narrative has been extended to skin colour, sexual orientation, trans identification etc in these type of studies (intersectional oppression). As a female I find the core narrative to be infantilising, regressive, anachronistic (sorry guys, ye missed the oppression bus by several decades if not a century and it was (is?) generally class that was (is?) the foundation of oppression) and ill-founded in real life experience. It is largely manufactured as a philosophical or political or sociological thesis. At the very least countervailing theses should be purposely funded to limit harm.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 13-08-2018 10:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Gender Studies is based in a mishmash of Peer-related papers, some valid research, and heaps of assumptions without solid foundations. But it's becoming more accepted in spite of it's lack of solid evidence. That we allow such courses is like suggesting we should allow the KKK to run a course in University to introduce and promote their viewpoints of racial superiority.

The tenets of academic freedom have to be considered here. As much as you may dislike the idea gender studies courses, and as much as I agree with many of your criticisms, it's a dangerous assumption that "we" (as in citizens, voters, or students) should have the right to determine what is or is not taught in universities. That should be the sole prerogative of the universities and their faculty.

Faculty are routinely attacked for their research, or for the subject matter of their courses, which is why the concept of academic freedom was created in the first place. In recent years, protesters have targeted everything from literature courses focused on white male writers, to economics courses that allegedly promote neoliberalism. It is up to the universities to stand firm against such idiocy and let academic freedom prevail.

Protecting faculty and their courses against state reprisal is a necessary extension of academic freedom. Therefore, as much as you may dislike gender studies, cheering the government's effort to ban it sets a dangerous precedent.

Hungary Scrap Gender Studies Indoctrination Courses

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