Compensation for Gardaí

realitykeeper · 02-08-2018 12:55AM #1

In the past two weeks, I have read in the newspapers a number of different cases whereby Gardaí have received substantial payments for some incident or other on the job. This raises a fundamental question. If Gardaí can walk into court and claim an enormous payment then should the hazards of being a Garda continue to be priced into their salary as they presently are? Would it not be more appropriate to pay them at lot less in lieu of anything they might claim in court?

blazard · 02-08-2018 01:02AM

no

Mr. Incognito · 02-08-2018 09:54AM

So you think we should pay ALL Guards an enormous salary because one or two received compensation for horrific injuries.

On that logic shouldnt EVERYONE get a compo payday on the chance they might be in an accident.

realitykeeper · 02-08-2018 10:02AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So you think we should pay ALL Guards an enormous salary because one or two received compensation for horrific injuries.

On that logic shouldnt EVERYONE get a compo payday on the chance they might be in an accident.

You seem to have misread what I posted.

seamus · 02-08-2018 10:07AM

The flaw in the OP is that risk is not currently priced into a Garda's compensation. Starting salary is €23,750. When minimum wage is just shy of €20,000, it's pretty clear that there's no "risk premium" paid to Gardai.

In any case, you cannot and should not sign a disclaimer that says, "anything that happens on the job is OK". With any job you agree to a level of risk which is reasonable and foreseeable for the work being done. For a Garda, that might be a few scraps involving soft tissue damage and non-permanent injury. "Unreasonable" risk is anything which involves permanent or life-changing injury.

Mr. Incognito · 02-08-2018 10:23AM

seamus wrote: »

The flaw in the OP is that risk is not currently priced into a Garda's compensation. Starting salary is €23,750. When minimum wage is just shy of €20,000, it's pretty clear that there's no "risk premium" paid to Gardai.

In any case, you cannot and should not sign a disclaimer that says, "anything that happens on the job is OK". With any job you agree to a level of risk which is reasonable and foreseeable for the work being done. For a Garda, that might be a few scraps involving soft tissue damage and non-permanent injury. "Unreasonable" risk is anything which involves permanent or life-changing injury.

Starting Salary is €30K

https://gra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GardaPayScales1Sept2017.pdf

When you include overtime, and pension rights its about 100K on average

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-fuller-picture-emerges-on-pay-and-pensions-for-garda%C3%AD-1.2904394

Eggs For Dinner · 02-08-2018 12:17PM

The Gardaí do a dangerous job and I wouldn't fancy it. If they are injured in the course of protecting society, they should be compensated. Now, the level of any award is a different matter and part of the overall problem in Ireland

realitykeeper · 02-08-2018 08:24PM

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

The Gardaí do a dangerous job and I wouldn't fancy it. If they are injured in the course of protecting society, they should be compensated. Now, the level of any award is a different matter and part of the overall problem in Ireland

The fact that it is a dangerous job (assuming they are actually doing the job as opposed to pretending to be doing it like they were with the fake breathalyzer testing) then why should they be compensated for the danger if they can claim loads of money if something actually happens? That is like paying them twice.

Eggs For Dinner · 02-08-2018 09:42PM

realitykeeper wrote:

The fact that it is a dangerous job (assuming they are actually doing the job as opposed to pretending to be doing it like they were with the fake breathalyzer testing) then why should they be compensated for the danger if they can claim loads of money if something actually happens? That is like paying them twice.

You sound like the type of chap who thinks it's Ok to give a Garda dog's abuse because you "pay his wages"

Twenty Grand · 02-08-2018 09:50PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

The fact that it is a dangerous job (assuming they are actually doing the job as opposed to pretending to be doing it like they were with the fake breathalyzer testing) then why should they be compensated for the danger if they can claim loads of money if something actually happens? That is like paying them twice.

If you've a life changing injury at work you should be entitled to compensation, which should refelect the money you could have earned if you were still working. End of.

If your job is hazardous it's your employers job to reduce the hazard and insure themselves appropriately.

Riskymove · 03-08-2018 03:11PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

and pension rights

a red herring when talking about someone's pay

they don't have an average pay of €100k

geeky · 03-08-2018 03:36PM

Tbf there's a certain dynamic where exceptional cases are reported, which in turn gives rise to a view that these outliers are the norm. Think it's fair to say that this applied to personal injuries more generally.

If you're interested in the legal context of this, the Law Society Gazette had a good piece on thr issue a while back: https://www.lawsociety.ie/News/News/Stories/Garda-patrol--compensation-for-personal-injuries-suffered-by-gardai/

CrankyHaus · 03-08-2018 03:44PM

The rationale for an especially generous Garda compensation scheme is so they continue to put their safety on the line for that of others without fear that they and their families will be on skid row if things go wrong.

Since we fairly often read of great bravery by Gardai it's fair to say that the Garda compensation scheme works.

The reality is that the system does get gamed by some and is a bit of a honeypot for lawyers. Since a large part of it is assessment only significant costs could be saved by instituting PIAB style reform of the process.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 03-08-2018 03:52PM

CrankyHaus wrote: »

... especially generous Garda compensation scheme...

LOL!

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Since we fairly often read of great bravery by Gardai it's fair to say that the Garda compensation scheme works.

Woah there horsey, that's quite the jump. What has compensation got to do with somebodies qualities?

mynamejeff · 03-08-2018 04:07PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Starting Salary is €30K

https://gra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GardaPayScales1Sept2017.pdf

When you include overtime, and pension rights its about 100K on average

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-fuller-picture-emerges-on-pay-and-pensions-for-garda%C3%AD-1.2904394

100 000 Euro ? i see your link is from the opinion page , that might explain why your so far wrong , in actuality its somewhere below 50 000.

taking into consideration
a 60 hour shift week
non accountable and often grossly incompantaint management structure
constantly changing work practices at the whim of politicians and media
horrifically substandard equipment (cars uniform PPE)
unprotected by a proper union
denied the right to speak to a public rep/ denied the right to silence
a minimal official support stricture provided

some one who had his life both physically and mentally destroyed in the service of the state and is then case aside to be evicted and institutionalized in John of Gods should be compensated and generously.

If it had happened to some on in a private company would it be any different?

CrankyHaus · 03-08-2018 04:19PM

Jayson High Quarterfinal wrote: »

LOL!

Woah there horsey, that's quite the jump. What has compensation got to do with somebodies qualities?

Responses like "LOL" make you sound like an 8 year old. What are you trying to say here?

I gave a clear explanation of how compensation is a motivation for courage. I'm not sure if you're deliberately acting obtuse or if you're simply too dim to understand, though the rest of your message suggests it's the latter.

realitykeeper · 04-08-2018 12:00AM

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

You sound like the type of chap who thinks it's Ok to give a Garda dog's abuse because you "pay his wages"

No. I just expect them to do their jobs to a high standard which they don`t.

realitykeeper · 04-08-2018 12:05AM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

If you've a life changing injury at work you should be entitled to compensation, which should refelect the money you could have earned if you were still working. End of.

If your job is hazardous it's your employers job to reduce the hazard and insure themselves appropriately.

Labour laws favour the employee in my opinion but at the end of the day, if something does not make financial sense, it should not exist. Otherwise, there will be hell to pay.

Twenty Grand · 04-08-2018 01:11AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Labour laws favour the employee in my opinion but at the end of the day, if something does not make financial sense, it should not exist. Otherwise, there will be hell to pay.

The sensationalist headlines don't help.
A garda at age 30 has at least another 30 years of work ahead of him. At 50k a year thats 1.5 million pre tax.

If you're injured at work due to no fault of your own and you CANNOT continue working there's no reason why you shouldn't get paid out.

It seems like a large lump sum, but over the rest of your life, paying morgage and kids college and your own expenses into retirement it's actually not that much.

It's not fair, compared to people who are injured in normal life or born with a disability, but im a big proponent of OHS.

realitykeeper · 04-08-2018 09:23AM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

The sensationalist headlines don't help.
A garda at age 30 has at least another 30 years of work ahead of him. At 50k a year thats 1.5 million pre tax.

If you're injured at work due to no fault of your own and you CANNOT continue working there's no reason why you shouldn't get paid out.

It seems like a large lump sum, but over the rest of your life, paying morgage and kids college and your own expenses into retirement it's actually not that much.

It's not fair, compared to people who are injured in normal life or born with a disability, but im a big proponent of OHS.

In that case the risk of danger should have no bearing whatsoever in a Garda`s salary. If nothing happens he will have gotten away with taxpayers money for nothing. If something happens he can claim - based on a salary which should be a good deal lower without the danger excuse priced in.

On a related point, this nonsense about junior doctors, nurses, teachers, Gardaí etc demanding parity of pay with their seniors, ignores the fact that the unions sold the juniors down the river. I know because recently I benefited from a pay rise and the one term in the terms and conditions that nobody had an issue with was that the pay rise would not apply to newcomers. If parity of pay is so important, then senior people like myself should have our pay cut to the same level as the newcomers. This ripoff of the taxpayers in the private sector has to stop.

Dr Brown · 06-08-2018 12:17PM

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

The Gardaí do a dangerous job and I wouldn't fancy it. If they are injured in the course of protecting society, they should be compensated. Now, the level of any award is a different matter and part of the overall problem in Ireland

Statistically speaking its not a dangerous job. You are far more likely to get killed if you work in construction.

Eggs For Dinner · 06-08-2018 06:46PM

Dr Brown wrote: »

Statistically speaking its not a dangerous job. You are far more likely to get killed if you work in construction.

And construction workers very frequently claim compensation for injuries suffered during the course of their work

_Brian · 06-08-2018 06:51PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

No. I just expect them to do their jobs to a high standard which they don`t.

Any encounter I’ve had with them has been professional and helpful.

Bellerstring · 06-08-2018 06:57PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/garda-gets-35-000-after-confronting-prisoner-covered-in-faeces-1.2564665?mode=amp
Some payments are ott though....

tayto lover · 06-08-2018 07:47PM

_Brian wrote: »

Any encounter I’ve had with them has been professional and helpful.

Same here. Always got good service.
I suppose that like any other large organisation you might meet a poor specimen from time to time but luckily I haven't.

wonski · 06-08-2018 07:51PM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Starting Salary is €30K

https://gra.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/GardaPayScales1Sept2017.pdf

When you include overtime, and pension rights its about 100K on average

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-fuller-picture-emerges-on-pay-and-pensions-for-garda%C3%AD-1.2904394

They are not on 100k average.

You completely misread the calculation.

If it was 100k a year, that would be the best paid police force in the world

mynamejeff · 06-08-2018 08:48PM

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/specialreports/fight-for-justice-why-did-the-gardai-add-insult-to-injury-860165.html

interesting read

compensated for a ruined life

ruined by criminal malice and managerial vindictiveness

the only support from his own rank and ran out of a job he loved

dont seem unfair to me

Riskymove · 07-08-2018 08:41AM

Dr Brown wrote: »

Statistically speaking its not a dangerous job. You are far more likely to get killed if you work in construction.

indeed and farming similar.....but those deaths are accidents (vast majority anyway)

the difference is putting your self in harms way/being expected to put your own safety before others

tayto lover · 07-08-2018 12:49PM

I'd say that life in the fishing industry is the most dangerous.
Huge earnings but life on the deep blue on a stormy day then it's earned.

Dr Brown · 07-08-2018 02:59PM

Riskymove wrote: »

indeed and farming similar.....but those deaths are accidents (vast majority anyway)

the difference is putting your self in harms way/being expected to put your own safety before others

Yeah but a lot of them have it handy like spending all day in the station filling out forms or working in areas that have little or no crime.

The job is nowhere near as "dangerous" as Garda spokespeople would have you believe.

Nightclub doormen are far more likely to get assaulted in their line of work than the Gardai are yet you never hear them moaning about how "dangerous" their job is.

Edgware · 07-08-2018 03:36PM

Dr Brown wrote: »

Statistically speaking its not a dangerous job. You are far more likely to get killed if you work in construction.

The Garda deaths of recent years have been murders. The construction deaths have been due to inadequate safety equipment, faulty scaffolding, careless driving of construction equipment etc. There is a difference. However whatever a persons occupation they should never have to die in their workplace

Compensation for Gardaí

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