Do you agree with government interference in personal lives

weldoninhio · 27-07-2018 10:02AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We could say lots of things about rules and regulations, but it can be difficult to pin point what exactly causes certain human behaviour, particularly in relation to substances that are highly addictive, we re a complicated lot with such substances

Go into any pub in Ireland. Watch as people buy one pint at a time all night. Watch them as they buy 3/4/5 pints at last orders and try to horse them into themselves before being kicked out.

Wanderer78 · 27-07-2018 10:03AM

murpho999 wrote:

There is definitely a different drink culture here and an attitude of drinking to get drunk. Very different to abroad.

Ah I've come across it in other countries to, but we do have a strange relationship with the stuff, a lot of countries have issues with alcohol

GingerLily · 27-07-2018 10:03AM

I'm just happy we're not where we were 30 years ago - the thought of those mother and baby homes still give me nightmares.

gozunda · 27-07-2018 10:04AM

professore wrote: »

I once asked for WiFi back in the day in a German hotel and was told that I could only use a dongle and sit in reception where they could watch what I was looking at due to some law or other.

Due to excessive regulation, Internet access outside the big city centres is very expensive, slow and they tie you in to 2+ year contracts. We are way ahead on that front.

The difference is the Germans strictly enforce all their laws. We don't. We are still very free by developed world standards. We don't even pay for water.

The issues with this is that in Germany where there are laws they are religiously and sometimes obsessively observed. For example crossing at pedestrian lights - despite there being no traffic due to an accident having closed the road at a distant junction - not one person was observed attempting crossing the road.

However where there are no evident laws or regulations this sometimes translates as a free for all. I couldn't get over the fact that queuing etiquette doesn't exist and have been roughly elbowed out of the way in local bakeries etc. I also know of an example of a German national who absconded with an ancient stone artifact in a foreign country on the logic that there was no law against same as far as they could see ...

Grab All Association · 27-07-2018 10:09AM

I'm a big supporter of the sugar tax. Next they should tackle sugar in food. T2 diabetes treated by the hse completely wrong in this country. Soft drinks were just one of ths causes. With the right nutritional advice the condition can be reversed permanently. Fats, proteins and little to no carbs/sugars.

An example 12g of sugar in one fish fillet in Aldi ffs! Taking ths piss. Tesco/Dunnes/Supervalu/Lidl etc less than 1g of sugar.

ArchXStanton · 27-07-2018 10:18AM

We've become an awful babysat society,not only do we have to contend with the government,but now the EU and its web of regulations

LeinsterDub · 27-07-2018 10:32AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We could say lots of things about rules and regulations, but it can be difficult to pin point what exactly causes certain human behaviour, particularly in relation to substances that are highly addictive, we re a complicated lot with such substances

Well I'm make it even clear .
Me : Enjoying a pint
Bar : Last orders
Me : Do I want a other? Maybe, best get a other
20 minutes later
Bar : Skull that pint and get out

Or
Me : Enjoying a pint
Me : Finishes pint , I think I'll go home

This is seen in pub around the country day in , day out.

whisky_galore · 27-07-2018 10:33AM

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Yeah if you want to get your head chopped off for being Christian then sure go ahead. I heard its an amazing country. Can't wait for the execution video.

You don't do sarcasm that well, do you?

LeinsterDub · 27-07-2018 10:34AM

murpho999 wrote: »

That's only at closing time.

There is definitely a different drink culture here and an attitude of drinking to get drunk. Very different to abroad.

Again the argument could be made that people in Ireland drink to get drunk as they've a limited budget and want to get the "bang for their buck" as it's so expensive here.

Wanderer78 · 27-07-2018 10:53AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Well I'm make it even clear .
Me : Enjoying a pint
Bar : Last orders
Me : Do I want a other? Maybe, best get a other
20 minutes later
Bar : Skull that pint and get out

Or
Me : Enjoying a pint
Me : Finishes pint , I think I'll go home

This is seen in pub around the country day in , day out.

probably seen in many pubs around the world to be honest

Tabnabs · 27-07-2018 11:06AM

I want to know who first thought to themselves, I love this person so much, I want to spend the rest of my life with them AND I want the government to approve it.

LeinsterDub · 27-07-2018 11:15AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

probably seen in many pubs around the world to be honest

In the places I've been to in Europe (excluding Britain) I've not seen this as the pubs are open so late

Wanderer78 · 27-07-2018 11:18AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In the places I've been to in Europe (excluding Britain) I've not see this as the pubs are open so late

fair point, but i think we somewhat over think and believe, we re the only country that has complex problems with alcohol, even though ive never been to middle eastern countries that have banned alcohol, others that have been, have told me, they have serious issues with the stuff to.

jimgoose · 27-07-2018 11:19AM

I don't personally feel like the Government interferes much with my personal freedom at all. Using the taxation system to influence behaviour that is detrimental to human and societal health is exactly the sort of thing I would expect a Government to be doing.

Arrival · 27-07-2018 11:56AM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Go into any pub in Ireland. Watch as people buy one pint at a time all night. Watch them as they buy 3/4/5 pints at last orders and try to horse them into themselves before being kicked out.

This absolutely happens. It is absolutely stupid and shouldn't be happening of course, but it does. With the removal of stupidly early closing times (curfew, more like) the people who do this would no longer feel the need to do it. I'm sure the first few weeks would be pretty hectic with people adjusting to being able to stay out so late but it would certainly come to a balance where everyone would basically suss out what their own limits are for drinking and staying up late. Most importantly, we would be severely reducing the number of huge groups of people gathering in the same areas are one single time because everyone would naturally filter out throughout the night. Adults would be treated like adults and be free to make choices about their own recreational lives during the nighttime like...adults. Just like most other countries.

There are certain nightlife scenes seriously inhibited here as a result of these closing times and it is depressing. Ireland is one of the best places for artists to perform because we are a wealthy nation. All over Europe the best house and techno DJs play in clubs at all hours of the night and provide lifelong memorable nights for people, meanwhile over here people are herded out the door as soon as everyone is full of energy and really getting into the events. It's so stifling.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-07-2018 08:34AM

gozunda wrote: »

The issues with this is that in Germany where there are laws they are religiously and sometimes obsessively observed. For example crossing at pedestrian lights - despite there being no traffic due to an accident having closed the road at a distant junction - not one person was observed attempting crossing the road.

However where there are no evident laws or regulations this sometimes translates as a free for all. I couldn't get over the fact that queuing etiquette doesn't exist and have been roughly elbowed out of the way in local bakeries etc. I also know of an example of a German national who absconded with an ancient stone artifact in a foreign country on the logic that there was no law against same as far as they could see ...

What? Where was that?
It's the opposite for me. People in Ireland are bastards for cutting into line. Was in a shop once, had my stuff on the counter and cashier was about to scan it. Woman walks up behind me, pushes me out of the way and dumps her stuff on top of mine. Cashier scans her stuff. Next, Dunne's. Was in line for the till, turned around, grabbed something off a nearby shelf, woman had pushed my trolley out of the way and took my spot. And then there's the passive aggressive ones who just walk up to the top of the queue and push their way in.
And it's worse on the roads, people using turning lanes to pass out traffic and bully their way in front, wrong lane of the roundabout, using buslanes and any kind of road markings are meaningless anyway, I just say yellow boxes.
I took me a year to not always look over my shoulder to see if some baxtid was about to try to jump ahead of me.
And red definitely means stop and not 3 or 4 more cars.

Any shop I've been in queuing has been impeccable. Even if people stand in a loose bunch instead of a line, everyone knows when it's their turn and it's always respected.

29-07-2018 08:41AM

The Finns are supposedly the happiest people in Europe, so maybe the government restrictions are good...........

( bit of sarcasm)

dense · 29-07-2018 09:15AM

Pretzeluck wrote: »

Apparently Finland, UK and Ireland are on the top 5 states that have the largest restriction on personal freedoms.
Personal freedoms like
Taxing sugar
Alcohol (sold only at specified times)
Cigarettes
Night club and pub rules (close at a certain time)
And other similar restrictions
Do you agree with them or would you prefer if it were like central European countries such as Germany which is at the bottom of the 28 European union countries in terms of personal freedoms, being the most free from government interference.

The reason the state imposes the rules you've listed is that the state picks up the tab for them one way or another in terms of providing health care and social assistance on foot of over indulgence, be it in drink drugs or tobacco etc.

They are just attempts to try get people to live healthier lifestyles or prevent life long medical issues.

You cannot expect a welfare state to not have some restrictions attached or some freedoms to be clipped in order to try to save it some money.

Yes it is nanny state, but we are lucky to have a nanny who we can turn to for assistance, even if we've never or never intend contributing any taxes to.

But nanny has a right to expect and ask us to be sensible and not cost her a fortune and to take the good with the bad.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-07-2018 09:19AM

bubblypop wrote: »

The Finns are supposedly the happiest people in Europe, so maybe the government restrictions are good...........

( bit of sarcasm)

The difference is attitude.
In Germany people regard rules as a helpful thing that enables us to live together and they clearly define obligations and entitlements.
That way society can function.
In Ireland rules are seen as a hindrance to peoples personal agendas and the first thought is "how can I get around, pervert, exploit or ignore those rules or use them as a tool to stick it to other people".
For that reason you very rarely see clamping in Germany. If someone really doesn't want you to park somewhere, they'll tow your car.
Also, people will call you out more. If you do something you're not supposed to, it is possible some random guy will walk up to you and say "excuse me, you're not supposed to do that"

tabby aspreme · 29-07-2018 09:42AM

bubblypop wrote: »

The Finns are supposedly the happiest people in Europe, so maybe the government restrictions are good...........

( bit of sarcasm)

In Finland last summer for two weeks and I didn't notice much restrictions, other than only beer is on sale in supermarkets , all other alcohol is sold in off licences. In other ways it's very unrestricted, with rowing boats available to everyone including the kids on the campsite for use in the adjoining lake with no instruction on there use, also at the car rallies you can stand on any corner, if a car hits you "tough". Germany on the other hand you could only use a bottle bank or mow your lawn during office hours and till 2 on a Saturday

weldoninhio · 30-07-2018 07:38AM

Tabnabs wrote: »

I want to know who first thought to themselves, I love this person so much, I want to spend the rest of my life with them AND I want the government to approve it.

Probably the first person who’s spouse died and the govt took everything as there was no proof they were entitled to inherit everything.

Tabnabs · 30-07-2018 04:50PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

Probably the first person who’s spouse died and the govt took everything as there was no proof they were entitled to inherit everything.

So the government came up with a law to protect you from...

the government.

hatrickpatrick · 30-07-2018 04:51PM

I 100% oppose the kind of nanny state outlined in the OP. The only law should be against harming others without their consent, beyond that, no action or actions should be illegal.

Taytoland · 30-07-2018 05:26PM

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.

dense · 30-07-2018 05:46PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I 100% oppose the kind of nanny state outlined in the OP.

Shouldn't nanny not try to ensure her clan doesn't drink, eat or smoke themselves into ill health?

Ill health that nanny will be called upon later to treat?

Agricola · 30-07-2018 05:51PM

If the state has lots of tax payer funded left wing policies to help the citizen in various ways, then I think a certain amount of these intrusions are warranted.

If the state does fúck all for you and it's basically a dog eat dog capitalist wet dream with no supports to speak of (ie Murica), then absolutely no intrusions or restrictions on personal freedoms should be warranted.

hatrickpatrick · 30-07-2018 07:44PM

dense wrote: »

Shouldn't nanny not try to ensure her clan doesn't drink, eat or smoke themselves into ill health?

Ill health that nanny will be called upon later to treat?

In my opinion, no.

Grayson · 30-07-2018 08:09PM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I 100% oppose the kind of nanny state outlined in the OP. The only law should be against harming others without their consent, beyond that, no action or actions should be illegal.

So telling you what side of the road to drive on is bad? Or regulations about what you're allowed put in food? Regulations about how safe building materials should be?

The majority of laws aren't about things that will directly harm people. they're about creating a smooth running society. It's not a moral issue if you drive on the right or left of the road. But it makes life easier if we have those rules. And once we have those rules it can be dangerous if they're removed. There are some exceptions but that's generally the case.

then we have other rules based on utilitarianism. We put laws in place will will help people overall whilst they may restrict the actions of others. Stopping me from smoking in the workplace restricts my freedom but protects others. Making you educate your children is the same.
Taxation is the same. Make you pay money into a pot which is used for the common good.

There's very few laws which aren't like this.

Pretzeluck · 04-08-2018 08:39AM

dense wrote: »

The reason the state imposes the rules you've listed is that the state picks up the tab for them one way or another in terms of providing health care and social assistance on foot of over indulgence, be it in drink drugs or tobacco etc.

They are just attempts to try get people to live healthier lifestyles or prevent life long medical issues.

You cannot expect a welfare state to not have some restrictions attached or some freedoms to be clipped in order to try to save it some money.

Yes it is nanny state, but we are lucky to have a nanny who we can turn to for assistance, even if we've never or never intend contributing any taxes to.

But nanny has a right to expect and ask us to be sensible and not cost her a fortune and to take the good with the bad.

Who asked for this? If I **** myself up then let me die but I want freedom.

Pretzeluck · 04-08-2018 08:41AM

dense wrote: »

Shouldn't nanny not try to ensure her clan doesn't drink, eat or smoke themselves into ill health?

Ill health that nanny will be called upon later to treat?

Germany seems to be doing fine without such restrictions. Or is Ireland more successful?

Do you agree with government interference in personal lives

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