What's the obsession middle aged lads have with cycling?

ballyharpat · 26-07-2018 12:27PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

UK - I went over and my uncle taught me as a kid. I could drive before I was 15 (private roads are legal).

Edit - second point sorry, true - I've not driven motorways in ten years as I commute to work but I started driving at 14 and last long journey I was 37. Short tips (<10km) only since then.

:eek:

Are you for real? I was driving a tractor at 12, I was in dodgem/bumper cars before that- it has no correlation to me knowing the rules of the road-not that everyone that knows the rules of the road obeys them.

And regarding the skateboarder, what difference does it make what age he is, if he is using it as a mode of transport? or even using it for fun..... there seems to be an age limit on when people think one stops having fun. Maybe he should not use it on the platform, but why should one not use it on the bike path at any time or age they choose-you really need to get out more, there's a big world, and it's not a 'big bad world', it's a world where people are different and enjoy or do things differently, be that cycling, skateboarding, mini-biking, rollerblading etc...... keep an open mind.....

PlaneSpeeking · 26-07-2018 12:30PM

ballyharpat wrote: »

:eek:

Are you for real? I was driving a tractor at 12, I was in dodgem/bumper cars before that- it has no correlation to me knowing the rules of the road-not that everyone that knows the rules of the road obeys them.

And regarding the skateboarder, what difference does it make what age he is, if he is using it as a mode of transport? or even using it for fun..... there seems to be an age limit on when people think one stops having fun. Maybe he should not use it on the platform, but why should one not use it on the bike path at any time or age they choose-you really need to get out more, there's a big world, and it's not a 'big bad world', it's a world where people are different and enjoy or do things differently, be that cycling, skateboarding, mini-biking, rollerblading etc...... keep an open mind.....

First off - did you miss the part of 22 years long distance regular driving ? Regarding the bold part ? In order Yes (over a year of lessons on an actual road - min 3 hours a day, in all weathers - plus mandatory Highway Code tests before I got the keys each day).

Tractor and fairground rides ? Not a comparison.

Second of all - if you think haring like mad on a city centre packed pavement and endangering people's safety is "fun" then I really cannot talk to you.

To be honest most of what I say you're ignoring or twisting. So, enjoy your skateboarding, I'm out.

ballyharpat · 26-07-2018 12:46PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

First off - did you miss the part of 22 years long distance regular driving ? Regarding the bold part ? In order Yes (over a year of lessons on an actual road - min 3 hours a day, in all weathers - plus mandatory Highway Code tests before I got the keys each day).

Tractor and fairground rides ? Not a comparison.

Second of all - if you think haring like mad on a city centre packed pavement and endangering people's safety is "fun" then I really cannot talk to you.

To be honest most of what I say you're ignoring or twisting. So, enjoy your skateboarding, I'm out.

Her's one of your quotes re driving, but you added to it later....... "UK - I went over and my uncle taught me as a kid. I could drive before I was 15 (private roads are legal).

Edit - second point sorry, true - I've not driven motorways in ten years as I commute to work but I started driving at 14 and last long journey I was 37. Short tips (<10km) only since then."

"Riding a skateboard on a city centre street at his age makes him look even more of a berk!

The mere riding of it would be bad enough."

You seem to be ignoring what you are saying-here, I'll repeat what I said-

I am not saying the location is suitable, what I commented on was how you mention and focus on the guys age, as if he shouldn't be doing it because he is 30 or something,

but as an add on-- I don't agree with him riding it on a platform,but in a city centre street with bicycles and other non motorised vehicles, I honestly do not see the problem, it happens in most cities and large towns, why not in Ireland?

Pinch Flat · 26-07-2018 02:03PM

Ah boards cycling threads. They’re always brilliant. When’s the next one?

magicbastarder · 26-07-2018 03:22PM

probably the next time there's a fatality, unfortunately.

Steve F · 26-07-2018 03:43PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

A dashcam saved a mate of mine's hide not long back. Pedestrian tried to say he ran a red and had a near miss - there was a cyclist there with a GoPro who said he'd check his footage "but I'll back you up".

Mate says "no need - got a dashcam here". Pedestrian and cyclist move off.

I don't drive but I'd say they should be mandatory.

Why don't insurance companies give a discount for car drivers that have Cams installed?(hardwired I mean)That would decrease the amount of bogus claims,no?

magicbastarder · 26-07-2018 03:49PM

i wonder about the maths of it - it'd help cut down on the number of fake/deliberate claims, obviously - but these are probably a fairly small minority. there'd probably still be a similar number of incidents, which they'd have to pay out for, but just shifting the deckchairs around a bit. the total payouts may not fall faster than the revenue from premiums.

dashcams are there more to protect the drivers than the insurance companies, possibly?

Steve F · 26-07-2018 03:52PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

i wonder about the maths of it - it'd help cut down on the number of fake/deliberate claims, obviously - but these are probably a fairly small minority. there'd probably still be a similar number of incidents, which they'd have to pay out for, but just shifting the deckchairs around a bit. the total payouts may not fall faster than the revenue from premiums.

dashcams are there more to protect the drivers than the insurance companies, possibly?

Good point
I still believe the next "big thing" in car ads will be built in dashcams
Before anyone says some cars already have them I'm talking about across the board,all makes ,all models, as standard

meeeeh · 26-07-2018 04:02PM

Cabaal wrote: »

Its their money so why does it bother you?

I'm in the process of spending 900e on a Dutch designed bike, one could argue I could go to halfords and buy one for 200e that could do the same job

After all, it would have wheels, brakes etc too!

It's funny when I cycle faster on my rickety city style bike than the guy huffing and puffing up the hill on an expensive racing bike. And I am not in any great shape.

seamus · 26-07-2018 04:07PM

One of the issues with widespread use of dashcams is reliability. A dashcam is for all intents and purposes, another witness. It views the incident through a specific lens, and while it allows more accurate recall than a human observer, it's perspective is far narrower.

When one individual has a dashcam, the other guy might just put his hands up and say, "Yeah, OK". But what happens when both parties have dashcams, each presenting a specific perspective - which doesn't necessarily have to agree with one another.

Running it down a logical rabbit-hole, insurance companies might more frequently find themselves in legal battles over the authenticity of one or both cameras' footage when they don't agree. Rather than make the troublesome cases clearer, you could find that they just become even more entrenched - both sides utterly convinced of their position.

Then courts will simply start dismissing all camera footage as potentially flawed until it can be shown otherwise.

It is possible to create cameras which "digitally sign" a video (or picture), meaning that you can always verify that footage came from a specific camera and hasn't been tampered with since. However, it's not widespread or simple technology, meaning that it's still quite expensive for the time being.

Until this becomes possible, it's likely that insurance companies will "enjoy" dashcam footage, but will be slow to make it a requirement.

07Lapierre · 26-07-2018 04:07PM

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny when I cycle faster on my rickety city style bike than the guy huffing and puffing up the hill on an expensive racing bike. And I am not in any great shape.

Your in great shape and as you passed the guy on the expensive bike, be happy knowing that the motorist behind you is now on the web somewhere giving out about cyclists cycling two abreast!

26-07-2018 04:15PM

seamus wrote: »

Then courts will simply start dismissing all camera footage as potentially flawed until it can be shown otherwise.

Seems like a very extreme theoretical possibility - has this happened anywhere in the world? The same theoretical risk applies to CCTV videos, but the Gardai and Courts don't seem to have any difficulties using these extensively. It is more and more common to hear the Gardai looking for dashcam footage.

But anyway, we're getting off topic, surely cycling is the big problem that needs to be fixed, with that huge total of zero people killed by cyclists in the last 15 years?

Boom_Bap · 26-07-2018 04:16PM

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny when I cycle faster on my rickety city style bike than the guy huffing and puffing up the hill on an expensive racing bike. And I am not in any great shape.

He could be a f*cking savage downhill though.

PlaneSpeeking · 26-07-2018 04:17PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Seems like a very extreme theoretical possibility - has this happened anywhere in the world? The same theoretical risk applies to CCTV videos, but the Gardai and Courts don't seem to have any difficulties using these extensively. It is more and more common to hear the Gardai looking for dashcam footage.

But anyway, we're getting off topic, surely cycling is the big problem that needs to be fixed, with that huge total of zero people killed by cyclists in the last 15 years?

Still peddling that lie are we ?

Homonym intended.

xckjoo · 26-07-2018 04:17PM

seamus wrote: »

One of the issues with widespread use of dashcams is reliability. A dashcam is for all intents and purposes, another witness. It views the incident through a specific lens, and while it allows more accurate recall than a human observer, it's perspective is far narrower.

When one individual has a dashcam, the other guy might just put his hands up and say, "Yeah, OK". But what happens when both parties have dashcams, each presenting a specific perspective - which doesn't necessarily have to agree with one another.

Running it down a logical rabbit-hole, insurance companies might more frequently find themselves in legal battles over the authenticity of one or both cameras' footage when they don't agree. Rather than make the troublesome cases clearer, you could find that they just become even more entrenched - both sides utterly convinced of their position.

Then courts will simply start dismissing all camera footage as potentially flawed until it can be shown otherwise.

It is possible to create cameras which "digitally sign" a video (or picture), meaning that you can always verify that footage came from a specific camera and hasn't been tampered with since. However, it's not widespread or simple technology, meaning that it's still quite expensive for the time being.

Until this becomes possible, it's likely that insurance companies will "enjoy" dashcam footage, but will be slow to make it a requirement.

Ah here. We're a few years away from people being able to artificially manipulate video data to the degree that they'd pass for authentic to anything beyond a casual viewing.

26-07-2018 04:23PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Still peddling that lie are we ?

Feel free to post the evidence that proves me wrong anytime.

PlaneSpeeking · 26-07-2018 04:25PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Feel free to post the evidence that proves me wrong anytime.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestrians-fatally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week

26-07-2018 04:34PM

meeeeh wrote: »

It's funny when I cycle faster on my rickety city style bike than the guy huffing and puffing up the hill on an expensive racing bike. And I am not in any great shape.

the guy on the expensive bike may be returning from a 125km spin though.

I had two lads tear past me going through Bray a few weeks back and made a joke about it when we stopped at a set of lights.

I congratulated them and asked if they wanted to join me, i even offered to buy the coffees in Laragh. Unfortunately they had other things to do.....

07Lapierre · 26-07-2018 04:34PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestrians-fatally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week

any examples in Ireland?

PlaneSpeeking · 26-07-2018 04:39PM

07Lapierre wrote: »

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestrians-fatally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week

any examples in Ireland?

That wasnt the question.

26-07-2018 04:39PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/07/number-pedestrians-fatally-seriously-injured-cyclists-has-doubled/

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863550/cyclist-killed-bicycle-accident-two-pedestrians-every-week

You knew that I was referring to Ireland, given the previous context. So I'm happy to clarify that the 'no-one killed by a cyclist in the last 15 years' claim refers to Ireland, if that helps.

But if you do want to look at the UK figures, maybe you'd like to reflect on the 1700 odd people killed by motorists each year in UK. That's 4 or 5 people killed each day by motorists (usually including 1 or 2 pedestrians) , compared to 2 or 3 each year by cyclists. That's more people killed on any day by motorists than in the entire year by cyclists.

So tell me again what's the priority issue that needs to be fixed?

Internet Friend · 26-07-2018 04:40PM

Seems to me people are now arguing for the sake of it. Whataboutery everywhere.

@PlaneSpeeking:

magicbastarder wrote: »

probably a reference to the last known case of an irish cyclist causing the death of another road user, which was in 2002 or 2003. cycle courier going the wrong way up a one way street, pedestrian fatality.

Read the thread...

26-07-2018 04:41PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

That wasnt the question.

The honest answer would be 'no, not in the last 15 years'.

Chips Lovell · 26-07-2018 04:41PM

"Nobody was killed" is setting the bar a tad low for acceptable behaviour.

26-07-2018 04:44PM

Baron de Charlus wrote: »

"Nobody was killed" is setting the bar a tad low for acceptable behaviour.

Perhaps you should be explaining that to the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people each week?

It seems to be an impossibly high bar to even get through a week here without someone being killed by a motorist.

Internet Friend · 26-07-2018 04:45PM

Considering the population of the UK is 13.75 times more than Ireland, I'd hazard a guess that freak accidents where a cyclist kills a pedestrian are probably a tad more likely.

07Lapierre · 26-07-2018 04:49PM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

That wasnt the question.

Well improving cycling infrastructure in Ireland won't help UK cyclists!

Chips Lovell · 26-07-2018 04:49PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Perhaps you should be explaining that to the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people each week?

It seems to be an impossibly high bar to even get through a week here without someone being killed by a motorist.

Nobody is arguing with you about that though.

_Dara_ · 26-07-2018 04:53PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'd have no major issue with such a legal change either on its own.

I'd have a very major issue with lights for bikes being identified as a priority issue to get time from policy makers, legislators and enforcement authorities.

How many people have been killed as a result of not having lights on bikes? How many cars/vans/trucks are driving round with one headlight or one broken brake light? How many newish cars are driving round with no back lights at all because they don't know how their DRLs work?

There are bigger fish to fry.

Former avid cyclist here. Not using lights on a bike in the appropriate weather or lighting conditions is indefensible and needs to be punished. I live in Dublin now but grew up rurally and cyclists without lights were absolutely a hazard. In twilight and at night, you could barely see them until the last minute and I have a father who is an incredibly careful driver. Even he nearly got caught out a few times.

I would never have dreamt of using my bike in twilight, dusk or at night without working lights. Hell, even on dull winter’s days, I’d use them.

Cars with broken lights are pretty rare to see but cyclists without lights are quite common. I don’t know if high vis garments are necessary but lights absolutely are.

You are doing yourself no favours here.

The Kop · 26-07-2018 04:54PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Perhaps you should be explaining that to the motorists who kill 3 or 4 people each week?

It seems to be an impossibly high bar to even get through a week here without someone being killed by a motorist.

Who the **** are you to be telling anyone what they should and shouldn't be explaining.
You're like a broken ****ing record.. blah blah blah motorists this and motorists that.

What's the obsession middle aged lads have with cycling?

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