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Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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  • #4592
    Kcormahs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 195 ✭✭Kcormahs


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Kcormahs wrote: »
    With earlier departures to the States, most of the connections from Europe and UK won’t be able to book those flights as they all land after 11am+ mostly (possibly apart from LHR (ei149/151) and maybe early inbounds MAN/BHX)

    Early morning departures worked before, they can also get an aircraft back to Dub on the same day and even get it out again on a late night departure from DUB if it left early enough. They will also be using smaller aircraft meaning less seats to fill.

    The earlier departures can be used by Irish passengers or US travellers returning home offering more seats for connections later in the day and been able to keep the current early T/A departures on the ground till after the first wave of short haul departures return in the late morning.

    I was referring to earlier departires from European markets such as AMS CDG FCO BRU etc. Not the US


  • #4593
    AerGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭AerGuy


    Does anyone think Aer Lingus will order the A220-300 now that it has been officially announced? I know IAG we’re considering it as an option for them a few years back as the CS300 before the aircraft entered service with Swiss but I don’t know if that consideration still stands now. Could Airbus offer Aer Lingus a deal for xx amount of aircraft as they are already an Airbus operator or do aircraft manufacturers, like Airbus, make deals like that? jetBlue have already signed a MoU for 60 aircraft just hours after it’s new name was announced! So there’s still enough time for Aer Lingus to put something forward before Farnborough 2018. Could this be a possible Farnborough order for Aer Lingus? Thoughts?


  • #4594
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    AerGuy wrote: »
    Does anyone think Aer Lingus will order the A220-300 now that it has been officially announced? I know IAG we’re considering it as an option for them a few years back as the CS300 before the aircraft entered service with Swiss but I don’t know if that consideration still stands now. Could Airbus offer Aer Lingus a deal for xx amount of aircraft as they are already an Airbus operator or do aircraft manufacturers, like Airbus, make deals like that? jetBlue have already signed a MoU for 60 aircraft just hours after it’s new name was announced! So there’s still enough time for Aer Lingus to put something forward before Farnborough 2018. Could this be a possible Farnborough order for Aer Lingus? Thoughts?

    Would the A220-100 not make more sense? The 300 seems to close to the A319?


  • #4595
    sandbelter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭sandbelter


    More likely to occur via franchisee than EI directly.  With the Stobart's boardroom degenerating into a circus and Air Nostum putting their hand up for the next EI franchise agreement anything is possible.  But I understand the A319's were disposed of b/c their economics weren't very compelling vis-a-vis the A320, so ultimately it will come down to whether the seat per mile cost is competitive. 
    But if we see the A220/C series being used transatlantic then probably yes, but I wouldn't expect movement before 2022 when the franchise agreement is slated to expire.


  • #4596
    AerGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭AerGuy


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    Would the A220-100 not make more sense? The 300 seems to close to the A319?

    I was thinking more along the lines of the A220 being used on routes with less market popularity for the capacity of an A320 but with more capacity than an ATR. Might allow some A320s to be focused on other routes or even replaced!


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  • #4597
    AerGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭AerGuy


    sandbelter wrote: »
    More likely to occur via franchisee than EI directly.  With the Stobart's boardroom degenerating into a circus and Air Nostum putting their hand up for the next EI franchise agreement anything is possible.  But I understand the A319's were disposed of b/c their economics weren't very compelling vis-a-vis the A320, so ultimately it will come down to whether the seat per mile cost is competitive. 
    But if we see the A220/C series being used transatlantic then probably yes, but I wouldn't expect movement before 2022 when the franchise agreement is slated to expire.

    Would a franchisee really buy the A220? I wouldn’t think the likes of Stobart Air or Air Nostrum would operate such a high capacity aircraft apart from Stobart’s Embraers which is already used in conjunction with Flybe’s operations. I would think at this point Stobart have settled down with their ATRs and are used to their operations both domestic and internationally! As for Air Nostrum...only time will tell if anything comes to light of this new potential franchise agreement! I was thinking of Aer Lingus operating the A220 themselves on European routes rather than transatlantic. Aside from the aircraft that fly to air shows in Europe direct from Canada, could the A220 operate commercial transatlantic flights? If so, would it be profitable?


  • #4598
    marno21
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,660 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    AerGuy wrote: »
    Would a franchisee really buy the A220? I wouldn’t think the likes of Stobart Air or Air Nostrum would operate such a high capacity aircraft apart from Stobart’s Embraers which is already used in conjunction with Flybe’s operations. I would think at this point Stobart have settled down with their ATRs and are used to their operations both domestic and internationally! As for Air Nostrum...only time will tell if anything comes to light of this new potential franchise agreement! I was thinking of Aer Lingus operating the A220 themselves on European routes rather than transatlantic. Aside from the aircraft that fly to air shows in Europe direct from Canada, could the A220 operate commercial transatlantic flights? If so, would it be profitable?
    A221 (CS100) has a range of 3,100nm and A223 (CS300) has a range of 3,300nm. Doesn't say on Wikipedia what the payload limitations are. For reference, DUB-BOS is 2,600nm.


  • #4599
    AerGuy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5 ✭AerGuy


    marno21 wrote: »
    A221 (CS100) has a range of 3,100nm and A223 (CS300) has a range of 3,300nm. Doesn't say on Wikipedia what the payload limitations are. For reference, DUB-BOS is 2,600nm.

    So possible Aer Lingus transatlantic flights with the A220? Possibly profitable given the right cabin configuration and payload of course! Interesting!


  • #4600
    sandbelter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 233 ✭✭sandbelter


    AerGuy wrote: »
    sandbelter wrote: »
    More likely to occur via franchisee than EI directly.  With the Stobart's boardroom degenerating into a circus and Air Nostum putting their hand up for the next EI franchise agreement anything is possible.  But I understand the A319's were disposed of b/c their economics weren't very compelling vis-a-vis the A320, so ultimately it will come down to whether the seat per mile cost is competitive. 
    But if we see the A220/C series being used transatlantic then probably yes, but I wouldn't expect movement before 2022 when the franchise agreement is slated to expire.

    Would a franchisee really buy the A220? I wouldn’t think the likes of Stobart Air or Air Nostrum would operate such a high capacity aircraft apart from Stobart’s Embraers which is already used in conjunction with Flybe’s operations. I would think at this point Stobart have settled down with their ATRs and are used to their operations both domestic and internationally! As for Air Nostrum...only time will tell if anything comes to light of this new potential franchise agreement! I was thinking of Aer Lingus operating the A220 themselves on European routes rather than transatlantic. Aside from the aircraft that fly to air shows in Europe direct from Canada, could the A220 operate commercial transatlantic flights? If so, would it be profitable?
    ASL operate B757's on behalf of EI which are bigger than A220 , as for A220 given its a 10 year agreement quite possible.   I believe the A220 is not containerized,  maybe someone else can shed some light if that's an issue for EI.


  • #4601
    HTCOne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 930 ✭✭✭HTCOne


    sandbelter wrote: »
    ASL operate B757's on behalf of EI which are bigger than A220 , as for A220 given its a 10 year agreement quite possible.   I believe the A220 is not containerized,  maybe someone else can shed some light if that's an issue for EI.


    Well the 757 isn’t containerized either


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  • #4602
    basill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭basill


    Don't be fooled by those range figures that get published by the manufacturer. What you want to know is what it can take off with at MTOW and with average winds and decent alternate coverage. If you start leaving people or cargo behind and can only operate when its dry and with favourable winds then it soon becomes a financial disaster.


  • #4603
    sherology
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 447 ✭✭sherology


    Using the a220 instead of atr's would help EI connections IMHO. Turboprop aircraft can be seen as a bit scary for some passengers which could deter connection traffic, plus baggage allowances and sizes can be standardized across the fleet, and not be smaller for atr and larger for tranat.

    Were it me, I'd replace the atr operation over the next 5-yrs and go all jet, with a cs100 or 300, or a mix, and use these small and efficient aircraft to enhance and expand their near-euro market, explore new thinner routes, fly in bad weather, and fly faster, more rotations etc.

    F


  • #4604
    adam88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭adam88


    I fly to Birmingham very often. There’s no real cost difference between Ryanair and aer lingus whem I book and I always fly Aer lingus, every day I think it’s 50/50 between the 320 and the atr’s. I always choose the 320 flights as they’re quicker. There’s just something about those atr’s


  • #4605
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    adam88 wrote: »
    I fly to Birmingham very often. There’s no real cost difference between Ryanair and aer lingus whem I book and I always fly Aer lingus, every day I think it’s 50/50 between the 320 and the atr’s. I always choose the 320 flights as they’re quicker. There’s just something about those atr’s

    Yeh they are props and go slower than a jet engine. Thought that was fairly obvious. :confused:


  • #4606
    Skuzchad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 ✭Skuzchad


    Probably never happen but waiting for the day Aer lingus announce Dublin to Houston or Dallas in Texas Direct .one can hope i guess


  • #4607
    alancostello
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭alancostello


    sherology wrote: »
    Using the a220 instead of atr's would help EI connections IMHO. Turboprop aircraft can be seen as a bit scary for some passengers which could deter connection traffic, plus baggage allowances and sizes can be standardized across the fleet, and not be smaller for atr and larger for tranat.

    Were it me, I'd replace the atr operation over the next 5-yrs and go all jet, with a cs100 or 300, or a mix, and use these small and efficient aircraft to enhance and expand their near-euro market, explore new thinner routes, fly in bad weather, and fly faster, more rotations etc.

    F

    They’re efficient jets but they’re not small by any measure. The A220-100 seats 125 at a generous pitch with Swiss, and the A220-300 seats 145, that’s not miles away from the A320’s 174 seats. The ATRs seat 48 and 72 people, less than half of the A220s. An appropriate jet replacement for the ATRs would be a CRJ700 or CRJ900 unless Aer Lingus wants to massively increase capacity on routes that I’d imagine it already would have if it could have.


  • #4608
    ozzy jr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭ozzy jr


    Was cycling around DUB on Saturday and stopped for half and hour or so for a look (I wanted to watch the Cathay A350 take off).

    Anyway, during the time I was there I seen about 5 EI A330s take off and land. It got me thinking about when i used to be brought out to the airport as a kid. I never used to see the 747s land but used to love watching them take off.

    So in a roundabout way I'm wondering how the 747 would fit into the modern Aer Lingus, with the likes of SFO, LAX and SEA operating from Dublin.

    Would they be economical in the fleet now?

    (For arguments sake lets say I'm asking this question in a couple of years, when the new runway is open and is long enough for a 747 to reach those cities without stopping in Shannon.)


  • #4609
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Anything with four engines is struggling to be economically viable due to the fuel cost. As a result EI would need to be able to fill it to the gills with passengers or have a large load of premium passengers (Dublin doesn’t have this).


  • #4610
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    747 is dead basically, the -800 isn't selling at all.


    A330 is a twin engine aircraft vastly cheaper to operate and EI doesn't need the range or capacity from the 747, and you can get a fully laden A330-200 off Dublin and in fact you can get off the short runway to most destinations

    The real question is why did EI go with A330 and not 777... both appeared around the safe time. Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed


  • #4611
    ohigg84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 558 ✭✭✭ohigg84


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    747 is dead basically, the -800 isn't selling at all.


    A330 is a twin engine aircraft vastly cheaper to operate and EI doesn't need the range or capacity from the 747, and you can get a fully laden A330-200 off Dublin and in fact you can get off the short runway to most destinations

    The real question is why did EI go with A330 and not 777... both appeared around the safe time. Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed






    Except for the Freighter variant, there is still life for it.


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  • #4612
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Bernie Cahill EI CEO at the time pulled a serious behind the scenes move and EI got a steal of a deal on EI-DUB and EI-SNN from Airbus at that time the A330 was really a domestic European aircraft EI did the legwork for the certification to get ETOPS so it could fly the North Atlantic without concern for diversion times. The cost savings from going from 747 to 330 was immense and immediate, no more flight engineer and 2 fewer engines, less than half the fuel needed

    It would be nice to hear some more about the history involved in the move to the 330.


  • #4613
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Air Inter went on a shopping spree and ordered way more than it could ever need. Airbus then had a lot of hulls with no home so the price was good

    EI-SNN/DUB/CRK all appeared very quickly as a result.


  • #4614
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Air Inter went on a shopping spree and ordered way more than it could ever need. Airbus then had a lot of hulls with no home so the price was good

    EI-SNN/DUB/CRK all appeared very quickly as a result.

    Just did a quick wiki about Air Inter. I see they were the launch customer for the A333. 4 in the fleet, 3 went to Sabena and 1 to EI as EI-ORD.

    Which led me to this thread:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056217019


  • #4615
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,379 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Air Inter had orders for 5 and 15 options

    DUB/SNN/CRK were early hulls the serial numbers are shared with the A340 so 54/55/70 is more than 9/10/30

    The CF6 engine didn't have any issues unlike the PW and RR which had issue delaying introduction

    Thai had a big order as well but delayed its order a bit


  • #4616
    Karl8415
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭Karl8415


    Hi everyone,new to this site but have watched it closely for sometime as I used to work with aer lingus but will always have a keen interest on the expansion and fleet within the airline.My question it based on the Q2 results iag released today it was also said that EI will announce 2 new transatlantic routes imminently so has anyone any idea of these routes and also would this single more 330’s on the way r wud they b penciled in for the 321 lr’s


  • #4617
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,686 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    Karl8415 wrote: »
    so has anyone any idea of these routes

    Discussed at great lengths in other threads!!!

    Commmmmmmmmme on Las Vegas!!!!!! :D:D:D:D

    (Never going to happen but its nice to wind up others!!!! :eek::eek::D:D)


  • #4618
    basill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭basill


    Rumour is 2 A330s this year. A321s won't be ready till October 2019 at the earliest in which case probably kicked into touch till the following summer as no demand for them over the winter. Potential for more A330s next year to fill the gap and further expand. To where nobody knows as yet.


  • #4619
    Karl8415
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85 ✭✭Karl8415


    330’s makes sense because Aer lingus CEO did say they were looking to commence new routes in July 2019,it’s going to be interesting to see where the aircraft come from because I was of the opinion that ( EWR ) lease was expiring in 2019 plus I taught they might look at moving ( LAX ) on also as it’s 20 years old in 2019,unless there sounding Qatar out for more 200’s as they release them


  • #4620
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    4 more 330’s according to rumours floating around


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  • #4621
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 10,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    4 more 330’s according to rumours floating around

    Bloody hell.
    They have 12/13 in service now?


This discussion has been closed.
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