Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

deaddonkey15 · 23-07-2018 03:56PM

Drumpot wrote: »

You will have to excuse my inability to multiquote bits of the same post. Somebody showed me before but I forgot!

United finished level with a city team that goto the champions league semi finals. I would argue that their prioritising the champions league and progression was what gave united any chance of finishing near them. The quality of squads were quite different, according to transfer market website linked below the 2015/16 united squad players who were , at the time, valued over £25 mil were Rooney, Mata and Schweinstiener. City had 8 players - Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Kompany, Mangala, Sterling, Toure and Fernandihno.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/kader/verein/281/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2015

You can argue about the valuations but its a decent benchmark to work off. Unless you think just feeling like the teams were equal is a fairer way ?

That transfermarkt stuff is such a load of nonsense.

Drumpot wrote: »

And then lets look at money spent since Jose inherited a poorer squad:

2016 City £192 mil United £166mil
2017 city £285 mil United £147mil
2018 city £63.27 mil United £74 mil

Total: City £540 United £387 = 29% difference between transfer kittys available to each manager. Pep has had £167 million more, that's nearly 2 extra Pogbas.

Why do you feel United should be level with City when they are spending nearly 30% more on a squad that had 5 more players more valuable then the squad Jose inherited ?

The 30% stuff is also such a load of nonsense. I cant believe you're still going on about it.

Cantona's Collars · 23-07-2018 03:58PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i'd have question marks over Jose trying to sell Martial, or Pogba, or if it were Lukaku, Matic, Blind or Lindelof.

But he is trying to replace Young, Darmian and according to some reports Smalling (to replace with an experienced CB).

If Jose was to resign in the morning, I would still want those players (and Valencia) replaced in the starting line up.

By the way.... WHAT THE FOOK is that fella we brought in from Juve last summer doing? (Very little from what I have heard). What a waste of time and wages.

Read the tweet I posted, looking likely that he's off to Zenith. Maybe his vision didn't match the club's. A very odd situation.

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 04:04PM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

That transfermarkt stuff is such a load of nonsense.

The 30% stuff is also such a load of nonsense. I cant believe you're still going on about it.

Facts are nonsense ?

What a club invests in its first team over a prolonged period of time is irrelevant to having an objective expectation on that team/manager?

I cant argue with that sort of thinking to be fair . .

deaddonkey15 · 23-07-2018 04:09PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Facts are nonsense ?

What a club invests in its first team over a prolonged period of time is irrelevant to having an objective expectation on that team/manager?

I cant argue with that sort of thinking to be fair . .

The "facts" you've presented are certainly nonsense yes. I'm busy now, but I'll address them later.

brinty · 23-07-2018 04:16PM

Can I impose a ban on myself????

Christ this thread can go nuts at times...

Think its safe to say we're in that period of the summer where everyone is p155ed off at the transfer market and taking aim at anything that moves.. do people seem to forget it's the same market for all clubs. That Spurs, City and Chelsea have gotten similar or less business done than us. Only Liverpool have improved and they've spunked a fortune in 6-8 months close to £300m. Most clubs also have to trim the fat from their squads and we'll see a whole lot of trading/ activity in the next few weeks..

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 04:28PM

pjohnson wrote: »

This would be good if Woodward wasn't pricing surplus defenders (Darmian) out of moves away from the club.

That is a little silly mind you.

And that is an example of where it's not the managers fault and the club. To be honest holding out for 5m on Darmian is a bit nonsense for me, just send him on his way and let him have a good pre-season for his new club and everyone moves on.

What I have always held in high regard with our club, is that historically we have always looked after players we want to leave, taking cut fees or transfers so they can have a move that is right for them.

Granted it was a lot of Ferguson doing favours, but the players well being was always central. Hope we would never lose sight of that benefit.

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 04:29PM

brinty wrote: »

Can I impose a ban on myself????

Christ this thread can go nuts at times...

Think its safe to say we're in that period of the summer where everyone is p155ed off at the transfer market and taking aim at anything that moves.. do people seem to forget it's the same market for all clubs. That Spurs, City and Chelsea have gotten similar or less business done than us. Only Liverpool have improved and they've spunked a fortune in 6-8 months close to £300m. Most clubs also have to trim the fat from their squads and we'll see a whole lot of trading/ activity in the next few weeks..

United were miles behind City. City don't need to spend a fortune to be better than us, they already are. United need to spend a fortune to get to their level, and we aren't doing it.

I don't care if other clubs have also failed. I care that United are failing.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 04:30PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

"So offload Blind, Darmian, Smalling and Shaw like I told you to".

This is where I'm debating with you, on the "sources thing".

I'm yet to see anywhere Smalling and Shaw being mentioned as serious players being offloaded, nor am I seeing any links of note for them.

I do however see them for Blind (now sold) and Darmian ( gone shortly) two players clearly marked out as surplus to requirements and are both on the way to be sold.

Smalling does not appear, look or behave like a player who is on the way out. And reports surrounding Shaw don't seem to indicate he is someone leaving either.

TitianGerm · 23-07-2018 04:34PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Facts are nonsense ?

What a club invests in its first team over a prolonged period of time is irrelevant to having an objective expectation on that team/manager?

I cant argue with that sort of thinking to be fair . .

How does United's spending compare to the other Top 4 competitors? There were plenty of lads saying that Klopp/Poch etc haven't won anything and both were performing poorly.

However your saying that United spend 30% less than City so expectations are less.

Does that mean the same is true for the other clubs? Say Spurs spent 30% less than United. Should they expecting to finish above United?

Also take into account lots of people would have said that Jose would have had a higher quality squad starting out than Poch had at Spurs.

So Jose had a better starting squad, has spent more but seems to get less out of his players. Why is that?

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 04:38PM

brinty wrote: »

Can I impose a ban on myself????

Christ this thread can go nuts at times...

Think its safe to say we're in that period of the summer where everyone is p155ed off at the transfer market and taking aim at anything that moves.. do people seem to forget it's the same market for all clubs. That Spurs, City and Chelsea have gotten similar or less business done than us. Only Liverpool have improved and they've spunked a fortune in 6-8 months close to £300m. Most clubs also have to trim the fat from their squads and we'll see a whole lot of trading/ activity in the next few weeks..

Fair point, worth looking outside of our own bubble to see whats going on. And frustration is all around.But I said that donkeys ago, and I'm hardly a prophecy. League voted to close window early in a world cup year, it was obviously going to be bonkers.

Even more reason to have ducks in a row and not so much get business done early, but just have your lists, your targets and your limits.I should probably clarify, I do and am holding the club accountable in this also. I just don't really believe what I'm seeing stated or portrayed as fact as to what is the deadwood he wants cleared.

I just feel, just an opinion, the manager hasn't been ruthless enough.

Fellaini, Darmian, Blind and Martial are the only players who there have been real concrete stuff about in terms of sales or links.

I also need to appreciate the club, nor manager, can refresh more then 3-5 players a summer window. As much as I think it can or should be done, the reality is it never happens. Three is normally the average I'd guess.

And for me, the below are players who should be gone ahead of the new season

Fellaini
Blind
Darmian
Young
Valencia
Mata
Smalling
Jones
Rojo

So yeah, it's not feasible for the club to action all those exits, and then replacements. Thats asking a lot in a normal window, let alone a cutdown world cup one.

But my point is that some of these should have been gone when he walked in the door, let alone three summers later.

Wonder has the shortened window in a world cup year just caught people on the hop. Was a stupid decision, which I credit the manager and club for voting against when it was put forward to vote.

jayo26 · 23-07-2018 04:43PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

How does United's spending compare to the other Top 4 competitors? There were plenty of lads saying that Klopp/Poch etc haven't won anything and both were performing poorly.

However your saying that United spend 30% less than City so expectations are less.

Does that mean the same is true for the other clubs? Say Spurs spent 30% less than United. Should they expecting to finish above United?

Also take into account lots of people would have said that Jose would have had a higher quality squad starting out than Poch had at Spurs.

So Jose had a better starting squad, has spent more but seems to get less out of his players. Why is that?

But jose has won things mate, not saying he is doing well or anything but he came in and won two trophies in his first season and last season was a major step back but he did win things in his first and finished second last year.

If United don't win a cup and proper challenge for a league title this season Jose will be under pressure and right fully so but the same won't be said for klopp or poch, poch will still be regarded as a top up and coming coach even tho he has constantly failed and if klopp does not win anything this year and gets in top four again he will be still building a side at pool in most fans opinions.

Not trying to have a go at you or anything but majority of united fans are judging jose right he is largely supported going into his third season and rightfully so because he won trophies to earn some time but 3 season's is enough for anyone to build a team and achieve something big.

JaMarcus · 23-07-2018 04:43PM

More info on Ribalta leaving:

https://twitter.com/MENCKelly/status/1021417109891571712

TitianGerm · 23-07-2018 05:53PM

jayo26 wrote: »

But jose has won things mate, not saying he is doing well or anything but he came in and won two trophies in his first season and last season was a major step back but he did win things in his first and finished second last year.

If United don't win a cup and proper challenge for a league title this season Jose will be under pressure and right fully so but the same won't be said for klopp or poch, poch will still be regarded as a top up and coming coach even tho he has constantly failed and if klopp does not win anything this year and gets in top four again he will be still building a side at pool in most fans opinions.

Not trying to have a go at you or anything but majority of united fans are judging jose right he is largely supported going into his third season and rightfully so because he won trophies to earn some time but 3 season's is enough for anyone to build a team and achieve something big.

I'm not saying he hasn't won anything.

I'm saying people put Klopp and Poch down because they haven't won anything yet then say that United's expectations should be less than Cities because they spend less.

The same should be true then for Spurs/Liverpool seeing as they spend less than United.

As a Liverpool fan I've been very happy with the last few seasons, three cup finals and back to back CL qualifications after missing out for years. Now after this summer I really want to see us get over the line and actually win something.

Lord TSC · 23-07-2018 06:03PM

Reliable chatter that Napoli have rejected a €100m bid for Koubilly from a PL club, saying they want €160m (i.e., they dont want to sell him).

Less reliable chatter that we were the ones who lodged the bid, though it might be process of elimination (City don't need him, Chelsea can't go back to Napoli for another player)

beno619 · 23-07-2018 06:16PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

It's just laughable that people just believe Jose so blindly. This is the guy who couldn't wait to take cheap shots at Van Gaal as soon as he took over, saying he wouldn't have sold players like Di Maria, Welbeck, Hernandez and IIRC Nani also.

Di Maria can be signed from PSG, Hernandez moved from Leverkusen to West Ham with ManUtd making 0 efforts to sign him, Welbeck's future at Arsenal is done and can be signed. Will Jose do it? No, it's just a cheap shot at Van Gaal for no reason.

I wouldn't have sold X player in X year in X scenario is a completely different argument to should I sign X player in the summer of 2018.

beno619 · 23-07-2018 06:24PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Works for him aswell. Like I said, another week or two, nothing happening, we get nervous, manager going mad, Ed feeling the pressure, and we spunk for Alderwerald. Paying an extra 10-15£ than we should

What would you suggest the club do here ?

beno619 · 23-07-2018 06:32PM

TheDoc wrote: »

And for me, the below are players who should be gone ahead of the new season

Fellaini
Blind
Darmian
Young
Valencia
Mata
Smalling
Jones
Rojo

So yeah, it's not feasible for the club to action all those exits, and then replacements. Thats asking a lot in a normal window, let alone a cutdown world cup one.

But my point is that some of these should have been gone when he walked in the door, let alone three summers later.

And Jose has already complained about having to replace squad player while city are adding quality every year.

So no needlessly replacing squad players would be an awful use of time and resources over the past 3 years.

discobeaker · 23-07-2018 06:53PM

Howdy all, long time lurker. Last week some of you fine posters we're talking about IPTV, if anyone has any suggestions or can offer any help then please send me a PM

If not allowed,feel free to delete

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 06:57PM

discobeaker wrote: »

Howdy all, long time lurker. Last week some of you fine posters we're talking about IPTV, if anyone has any suggestions or can offer any help then please send me a PM

Are you a cop? You have to tell us of you're a cop. Naaaaaarrrrrcccc

discobeaker · 23-07-2018 07:01PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Are you a cop? You have to tell us of you're a cop. Naaaaaarrrrrcccc

Thankfully I'm not a cop, I'm just a cheap Monaghan man who doesn't want to give sky anymore money to watch United matches. Is our match against Milan on Tuesday or Wednesday does anyone know off hand

DARK-KNIGHT · 23-07-2018 07:16PM

So have we all seen through Jose yet?

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 07:24PM

discobeaker wrote: »

Thankfully I'm not a cop, I'm just a cheap Monaghan man who doesn't want to give sky anymore money to watch United matches. Is our match against Milan on Tuesday or Wednesday does anyone know off hand

This is how I pictured your long term lurker post

discobeaker · 23-07-2018 07:27PM

Drumpot wrote: »

This is how I pictured your long term lurker post

Balls... My cover has been rumbled... emmmm... So fellow kids, how's about them fidget spinners eh?

pjohnson · 23-07-2018 07:32PM

discobeaker wrote: »

Balls... My cover has been rumbled... emmmm... So fellow kids, how's about them fidget spinners eh?

Welcome Discobeaker!

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 07:35PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

I'm not saying he hasn't won anything.

I'm saying people put Klopp and Poch down because they haven't won anything yet then say that United's expectations should be less than Cities because they spend less.

The same should be true then for Spurs/Liverpool seeing as they spend less than United.

As a Liverpool fan I've been very happy with the last few seasons, three cup finals and back to back CL qualifications after missing out for years. Now after this summer I really want to see us get over the line and actually win something.

Ah but Liverpool fans can and will fall back in style of football and spend if he does t win anything. Jose is between a rock and a hard place.

If he doesn’t finish higher then city, with a vastly inferior budget, it will be considered a failure. To try and compensate for a lower budget it makes sense that his defensive tactics (that have been successful at every club he’s managed) will be employed. I would question the nature of the United boards support at getting Jose’s targets but some fans seem happy to trust the owners/Woodward for no obvious reason other then they do.

Effectively city have bought Pep the equivalent of Jose having Varane and Bale in the existing team. I would expect more from that team but the bottom line is that we expect success at a yellow pack price in comparison to city. United fans wouldn’t be content with Kevin Keegan football if the team was in the top 4 pack and relying on a handyish draw to the CL final. City were caught on the hop by pool in a tie that could easily of gone either way, especially if some decisions went differently so let’s not pretend that Liverpool are odds on to get past Barca, Madrid , PSG, City or Juventus this year!!!

There is different expectations on managers. Klopp would have to do a lot wrong to get sacked , jose finished 2nd getting united it’s best league result since SAF retired and some fans still want him sacked. He can’t win with some.

Trigger · 23-07-2018 07:58PM

discobeaker wrote: »

Thankfully I'm not a cop, I'm just a cheap Monaghan man who doesn't want to give sky anymore money to watch United matches. Is our match against Milan on Tuesday or Wednesday does anyone know off hand

Didn’t know they had the speeds for iptv over there

still on dial up no?

Lord TSC · 23-07-2018 08:26PM

Linked with Boateng of Bayern now. Word is they want 40-50m for him

Liam McPoyle · 23-07-2018 08:27PM

astradave wrote: »

Didn’t know they had the speeds for iptv over there still on dial up no?

Careful Dave, that lad is in the Ra.

:eek:

TitianGerm · 23-07-2018 08:28PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Ah but Liverpool fans can and will fall back in style of football and spend if he does t win anything. Jose is between a rock and a hard place.

If he doesn’t finish higher then city, with a vastly inferior budget, it will be considered a failure. To try and compensate for a lower budget it makes sense that his defensive tactics (that have been successful at every club he’s managed) will be employed. I would question the nature of the United boards support at getting Jose’s targets but some fans seem happy to trust the owners/Woodward for no obvious reason other then they do.

Effectively city have bought Pep the equivalent of Jose having Varane and Bale in the existing team. I would expect more from that team but the bottom line is that we expect success at a yellow pack price in comparison to city. United fans wouldn’t be content with Kevin Keegan football if the team was in the top 4 pack and relying on a handyish draw to the CL final. City were caught on the hop by pool in a tie that could easily of gone either way, especially if some decisions went differently so let’s not pretend that Liverpool are odds on to get past Barca, Madrid , PSG, City or Juventus this year!!!

There is different expectations on managers. Klopp would have to do a lot wrong to get sacked , jose finished 2nd getting united it’s best league result since SAF retired and some fans still want him sacked. He can’t win with some.

With the signings this season I'd be disappointed if we don't win a cup.

Three finals in his time here is good going (especially considering we hadn't a sniff of one in donkeys years). Yes it's disappointing we haven't gotten over the line yet but in every one of those games we've been the underdogs. Hopefully that changes this year.

Trigger · 23-07-2018 08:34PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Linked with Boateng of Bayern now. Word is they want 40-50m for him

Rumours of a €32m bid for Bonucci too

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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