Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

jayo26 · 23-07-2018 01:51PM

astradave wrote: »

Luckhurst going totally against the grain and saying United hoping to bring in Alderweirald and an attacker and then a LB only if they have funds remaining

This makes most sense to be honest.

Lord TSC · 23-07-2018 01:52PM

Off topic but I knew a Ciaran Kelly way back in primary school, and now I wonder if its the same chap who works for MEN.

brinty · 23-07-2018 01:53PM

jayo26 wrote: »

This makes most sense to be honest.

You can shove your "sense" where the sun doesn't shine...

I wants my LB right now... OK :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 01:57PM

astradave wrote: »

Luckhurst going totally against the grain and saying United hoping to bring in Alderweirald and an attacker and then a LB only if they have funds remaining

Actually Luckhurst is saying same thing in different tone. He is saying we are pessimistic about signing Toby, whereas others said we are not interested anymore.

United remain interested in Toby Alderweireld and have been in dialogue with Tottenham, having begun discussions over a possible £55million deal in May. Alderweireld began the summer as United's preferred central defensive target but the club are pessimistic about their chances of signing the 29-year-old, whose valuation has increased after a fine World Cup with Belgium.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 02:04PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

From what I have read Jose told Woodward the players/positons he wanted in.

He also told woodward that Darmian, Shaw, Blind and Smalling were players he wanted sold and that he would be happy to sell Martial to fund the purchase of a winger.

Once Jose has told Woodward what to do, it is up to woodward to get it done.

What you are reading (likely the same journalists, reports and paper stuff I do) has reported Jose changing his mind multiple times. Shaw has changed about 5 times since the WC started.

So acknowledging we are operating of journalists sources and we will never know the truth, I don't think you can take the same journalistic sources and what they said X weeks or months ago, as fact, but not take the same sources as fact when they report subsequently.

Same sources said Herrera and Mata were surplus to requirements and told as much end of season.....

How the F can you blame Jose for Woodward not being able to sell players, or the accumulation of sh1t from before he arrived. Do you expect Jose to be ringing clubs and agents trying to sell the players himself?

I expect him to be a bit more ruthless. He is into his third year. It's ridiculous the likes of Darmian, Jones and Smalling have made it this long.

While of course it's not his job to make the sales personally, there is very few cases where a manager wants a player rid and they arn't sold. It's also very rare where a club like us, can't shift our players. IF they want them gone, they are gone.

If he wants his cake and eat it, shift players for firesale pricing and expect to be funded massively for replacements, then yeah I'll get the club maybe questioning what his ideas are or what he wants to achieve.

Jose has, apparently , made it clear these players are not needed by him and the players he is looking at to replace him. Any failures after that are 100% on Woodward, not Jose. It simply isn't Jose's job or place to be negotiating the deals in or out.

Literally a week ago stories that Jose has outlined he is happy with Shaw and to cease with dealings with Sandro. That whole left back situation is a drama in itself, nevermind elsewhere in the team. Now this morning "Jose believes Young is adequate for the year ahead".

Woodward knew MONTHS ago that Shaw, Blind, Darmian and Smalling were to be sold to fund replacements.

Again, based on the same sources having him change his mind over the course of the summer.
I think it's also more Jose knew he would need to sell players before buying new in certain areas.

Do you believe the likes of Smalling and Shaw are under the impression they are awaiting imminent departures?

What more do you want of Jose? Or do you think Jose only told Woodward last week that these players could be sold and was actually hoping to have a squad of 35 prior to that?

I just want him to be more decisive. I don't think he has been. Watch. We are going to walk into another season with Smalling and Jones. I just know it. And it's ridiculous. There is also a certain argument that Shaw should be long gone too.

To me I'd imagine it's a somewhat issue with communication or transparency. If it was all so clear in terms of the players you mention being sold, then 1) We'd have seen much more links for their transfer out and 2) I'd imagine most if not all would be gone at this stage.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 02:12PM

Actually can't remember such flat a dispondant?

Not even talking about here since I've been a bit busy and not following as close as I usually do. Even just fans here in work or my mates, everyone is grim, feeling real uneasy about the season ahead.

I do hold optimism that I've felt Pogba is the key and if he starts playing consistently it by itself jolt the team up higher, higher than many potential signings would make. So there is that sliver of positivity, if the team as a whole steps up a level, the existing players. Then that would be great.

But with such glaring issues in the first XI nevermind squad...ugh...

Adamocovic · 23-07-2018 02:19PM

Am I missing something but what is the play Spurs are doing regarding Alderweireld?

His contract is running out and unless he has expressed an interest to sign an extension I don't see why they would hold onto him and let him walk for free. Even waiting for Winter's window could severely knock money off what they will get for him, people won't mind waiting to get him for free at that point.

Like I said the only reason I can see them not selling him is they have a 1 year extension option, or think he may sign an extension. Otherwise they would, you'd have expected, sold him early in the window to line up a replacement.

bangkok · 23-07-2018 02:21PM

Giggsy11 · 23-07-2018 02:25PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Am I missing something but what is the play Spurs are doing regarding Alderweireld?

His contract is running out and unless he has expressed an interest to sign an extension I don't see why they would hold onto him and let him walk for free. Even waiting for Winter's window could severely knock money off what they will get for him, people won't mind waiting to get him for free at that point.

Like I said the only reason I can see them not selling him is they have a 1 year extension option, or think he may sign an extension. Otherwise they would, you'd have expected, sold him early in the window to line up a replacement.

He has contract till 2019 plus extension clause. If Spurs activate extension clause then there will be 25 million release clause.

yourdeadwright · 23-07-2018 02:25PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

From what I have read Jose told Woodward the players/positons he wanted in.

He also told woodward that Darmian, Shaw, Blind and Smalling were players he wanted sold and that he would be happy to sell Martial to fund the purchase of a winger.

Once Jose has told Woodward what to do, it is up to woodward to get it done.

What you are reading (likely the same journalists, reports and paper stuff I do) has reported Jose changing his mind multiple times. Shaw has changed about 5 times since the WC started.

So acknowledging we are operating of journalists sources and we will never know the truth, I don't think you can take the same journalistic sources and what they said X weeks or months ago, as fact, but not take the same sources as fact when they report subsequently.

Same sources said Herrera and Mata were surplus to requirements and told as much end of season.....

How the F can you blame Jose for Woodward not being able to sell players, or the accumulation of sh1t from before he arrived. Do you expect Jose to be ringing clubs and agents trying to sell the players himself?

I expect him to be a bit more ruthless. He is into his third year. It's ridiculous the likes of Darmian, Jones and Smalling have made it this long.

While of course it's not his job to make the sales personally, there is very few cases where a manager wants a player rid and they arn't sold. It's also very rare where a club like us, can't shift our players. IF they want them gone, they are gone.

If he wants his cake and eat it, shift players for firesale pricing and expect to be funded massively for replacements, then yeah I'll get the club maybe questioning what his ideas are or what he wants to achieve.

Jose has, apparently , made it clear these players are not needed by him and the players he is looking at to replace him. Any failures after that are 100% on Woodward, not Jose. It simply isn't Jose's job or place to be negotiating the deals in or out.

Literally a week ago stories that Jose has outlined he is happy with Shaw and to cease with dealings with Sandro. That whole left back situation is a drama in itself, nevermind elsewhere in the team. Now this morning "Jose believes Young is adequate for the year ahead".

Woodward knew MONTHS ago that Shaw, Blind, Darmian and Smalling were to be sold to fund replacements.

Again, based on the same sources having him change his mind over the course of the summer.
I think it's also more Jose knew he would need to sell players before buying new in certain areas.

Do you believe the likes of Smalling and Shaw are under the impression they are awaiting imminent departures?

What more do you want of Jose? Or do you think Jose only told Woodward last week that these players could be sold and was actually hoping to have a squad of 35 prior to that?

I just want him to be more decisive. I don't think he has been. Watch. We are going to walk into another season with Smalling and Jones. I just know it. And it's ridiculous. There is also a certain argument that Shaw should be long gone too.

To me I'd imagine it's a somewhat issue with communication or transparency. If it was all so clear in terms of the players you mention being sold, then 1) We'd have seen much more links for their transfer out and 2) I'd imagine most if not all would be gone at this stage.

Something doesn't seem right at United this summer,
Jose seems pissed off already ,
There is 19 days left and even two good signing could change everything but there just doesn't seem to be much excitement around United yet which is odd, they finished the season well last season,
I'd imagine there will be at very least one marquee singing still to come in ,

Adamocovic · 23-07-2018 02:28PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He has contract till 2019 plus extension clause. If Spurs activate extension clause then there will be 25 million release clause.

Cheers! Wasn't sure if they had an extension option or had used it. The release clause is very interesting.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 02:42PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Am I missing something but what is the play Spurs are doing regarding Alderweireld?

His contract is running out and unless he has expressed an interest to sign an extension I don't see why they would hold onto him and let him walk for free. Even waiting for Winter's window could severely knock money off what they will get for him, people won't mind waiting to get him for free at that point.

Like I said the only reason I can see them not selling him is they have a 1 year extension option, or think he may sign an extension. Otherwise they would, you'd have expected, sold him early in the window to line up a replacement.

It's what Spurs do. Every year.

They have fans reading similar stories as . Seemingly they have 5+ players that need to be sold and they want to concentrate on clearing out.

It's what Levy does, and in fairness he is proved right every summer. We could well go back next week and give them the 60m they want.

He's happy to just hang on and play it patient, knowing people will come back to him with extra $$ for his players they want. And he kinda just doesn't care about the managers plans, pre-season or the fans getting tetchy.

Works for him aswell. Like I said, another week or two, nothing happening, we get nervous, manager going mad, Ed feeling the pressure, and we spunk for Alderwerald. Paying an extra 10-15£ than we should

Cantona's Collars · 23-07-2018 02:43PM

https://twitter.com/MomblanOfficial/status/1021373108798844928

"Javier Ribalta prepared to leave United to join Zenit."

That tenure didn't last long if he's off already.

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 02:44PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Something doesn't seem right at United this summer,
Jose seems pissed off already ,
There is 19 days left and even two good signing could change everything but there just doesn't seem to be much excitement around United yet which is odd, they finished the season well last season,
I'd imagine there will be at very least one marquee singing still to come in ,

Agree, something is off.

I'd literally park everything and anything and literally only question why is he sulking, moaning and resonating a negative attitude, in his first public appearances of the season.

Totally appreciate maybe he is annoyed at something, maybe the club are ****ing him around or dropping the ball.

But sending out that tone and message, he's not a stupid man. He knows well what hes doing and he knows well what we are all thinking or what people are going to think.

fatherted1969 · 23-07-2018 02:45PM

Doesn't really matter who comes in imo, my faith in Mourinho to get the very best put of them is 0. Felt in the second half of last season that the team weren't behind him. His style of management in the last while is something I've no time for. How can you publicly flog a player and expect him to be 100% behind you is beyond me.

paulbok · 23-07-2018 02:47PM

bangkok wrote: »

You're still gonna get the blame though

nullzero · 23-07-2018 02:48PM

Not much to be optimistic about for next season. We seem to be continuing our slide into obscurity, making the top four is our new level.

pjohnson · 23-07-2018 02:49PM

We probably can't shift Darmian due to his price tag. Both Juve and Inter appeared to loose interest based on his value, now it seems Napoli are the only club left.

We should get rid off no hopers but we seem reluctant to (despite Darmian having only a year left and Juve probably more than happy to wait the year a la Emre Can)

Will I Am Not · 23-07-2018 02:56PM

I hadn’t been impressed as much with the first few games of a new signing as I was with Darmian. It all went downhill very quickly though.

Trigger · 23-07-2018 02:57PM

pjohnson wrote: »

We probably can't shift Darmian due to his price tag. Both Juve and Inter appeared to loose interest based on his value, now it seems Napoli are the only club left.

We should get rid off no hopers but we seem reluctant to (despite Darmian having only a year left and Juve probably more than happy to wait the year a la Emre Can)

Club have an option on Darmian so he basically has 2 years left, no way they will let him go for free next season, it’s why they are holding out a bit too imo especially with how the market is

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 03:11PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

When Jose took over, Manutd finished on level points with ManCity with Martial and Rashford playing so well.

Same excuse was used when Van Gaal was in charge, and same excuse will be used when Jose gets sacked and new coach is not happy with playing squad, excuses will be how poor recruitment was under Jose. So when are we going to discuss about tactics, our attacking play or lack of, how poorly we play as a team.

Is signing players only way to improve the team? This is when Jose has spent 380 million, since Jose took over at ManUtd, we are easily among top 5 in Europe when it comes to money spent. And still you are saying he isn't backed.

How do you know teams are not desperate to sign our players? We didn't struggle much to sell Schneiderlin, Depay and there are teams who are in for Martial and there are teams like Juventus, Napoli, Inter who wants Darmian.

This is 3rd summer, with Jose signing every player he wanted except Perisic in 2 summers, when will these excuses stop?

I don't have any problems with Fellaini and Young, in fact I like them and my post history supports that. What I have problem is, people moaning about how Jose isn't responsible for offloading deadwood when he is on his knees for average players. We even gave Rojo extension last season. If Jose doesn't rate him, why didn't he sell them instead of asking club to give them new contracts? Fellaini, Young, Rojo players who are considered as average and deadwood but liked by Jose.

The whole thing changes when the new coach says he doesn't rate any of the players, just like how Jose can't wait to offload Martial. Today's shiny toys are tomorrows deadwood.

If Jose leaves tomorrow then we will have a coach who wants new RB, LB and have to address non existent right winger in the club, also a CB who can stay fit, defend and can pass the ball. That's 4 positions that we have holes.

I like Jose's signings as he usually gets it spot on but as much as anyone he is responsible for the current situation. He has signed 2 CBs in 2 summers and now he wants one more while ignoring LB position for 3rd summer in a row and a right winger.

There comes a time when you have to start questioning Jose for not getting best out of players too and also our non existent attacking play.

You will have to excuse my inability to multiquote bits of the same post. Somebody showed me before but I forgot!

United finished level with a city team that goto the champions league semi finals. I would argue that their prioritising the champions league and progression was what gave united any chance of finishing near them. The quality of squads were quite different, according to transfer market website linked below the 2015/16 united squad players who were , at the time, valued over £25 mil were Rooney, Mata and Schweinstiener. City had 8 players - Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Kompany, Mangala, Sterling, Toure and Fernandihno.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/kader/verein/281/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2015

You can argue about the valuations but its a decent benchmark to work off. Unless you think just feeling like the teams were equal is a fairer way ?

And then lets look at money spent since Jose inherited a poorer squad:

2016 City £192 mil United £166mil
2017 city £285 mil United £147mil
2018 city £63.27 mil United £74 mil

Total: City £540 United £387 = 29% difference between transfer kittys available to each manager. Pep has had £167 million more, that's nearly 2 extra Pogbas.

Why do you feel United should be level with City when they are spending nearly 30% more on a squad that had 5 more players more valuable then the squad Jose inherited ?

Incidentally, I never said Jose wasn't backed nor did I say he isn't getting players that he wants. What I said was that the club has its own priorites and strategies for transfers. There are plenty of examples of players bought (that have been discussed here) that weren't manager choices over the last 5 years.

An obvious Jose signing is Matic, a player with no resale value, not very marketable or exciting, prob turning from their best years to decline and somebody he has worked with before. A not so obvious Jose signing is Sanchez and to a lessor degree Pogba. One looking like an opportunistic purchase (after failing to get Perisic) and another who just happens to be a more valuable player as much down to their social presence as their perceived ability. I am not saying that Jose didn't want these players, I am questioning whether or not they were priority players he would of chosen had he the choice (perisic v sanchez etc).

I am defending the manager because the fact is that none of us know for sure how the club decides who to sign. We don't know what factors (balancing books - marketability - age - resale value) they club places on transfers but there are enough question marks over certain signings to suggest its not simply a manager getting whoever is on their wish list. We don't know what bullsh*t Jose has to put up with behind the scenes. But what we do know is that the club has fallen quite sharply, long before Jose joined and that Woodward being CEO is a common denominator.

I don't care what Jose says in public. I don't blame him for the club being unable to offload players the club bought. I don't blame him if the club is unable to get the targets he requests because the club is the richest in the world and has no excuse for not being able to afford anybody. If the club is as big as we all think it is then I think its fair to ask is it investing in the first team in a manner that is equal or better to the top teams in Europe. The answer is no. . So why should we expect Jose to surpass the higher spending teams ?

PhlegmyMoses · 23-07-2018 03:14PM

If it is a case that Woodward isn't backing Mourinho rather than just not getting the deals over the line, then he may sack Mourinho and move on. Pointless half arsing it

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 03:21PM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If it is a case that Woodward isn't backing Mourinho rather than just not getting the deals over the line, then he may sack Mourinho and move on. Pointless half arsing it

Its not that . .

Its a world cup year and Jose is rightly pissed that he has a makeshift squad to work with until about a week before the league kicks off. The club has only signed one target. The club hasn't offloaded players who he doesn't want.

And people are somehow turning this around against him . . Of course he is pissed, he wants to succeed and cannot get the most out of his resources until everything is sorted.

If Jose is asked a question he answers it. Do other EPL managers say "I am delighted with not having all my squad because of the world cup" ? No, they don't, they might get on with it but they aren't happy. So what if Jose says it pisses him off, hes united manager he wants to win with United and is pissed that this is affecting his plans. Move on . .

TheDoc · 23-07-2018 03:33PM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If it is a case that Woodward isn't backing Mourinho rather than just not getting the deals over the line, then he may sack Mourinho and move on. Pointless half arsing it

Like is it generally not deemed as something that can happen? Is it an all or nothing scenario?

If Jose came to met and asked me to secure Sandro, and the results of negotiations were €50m and six figure wages I'd probably go back with

"Sorry Jose, Juventus are not being realistic here. They want €50m. I'm not signing that off unless we clear some of the existing defenders".

Is that "not backing the manager" or is that not just considered run of the mill day to day dealings in business, never mind a football club.

pjohnson · 23-07-2018 03:38PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Like is it generally not deemed as something that can happen? Is it an all or nothing scenario?

If Jose came to met and asked me to secure Sandro, and the results of negotiations were €50m and six figure wages I'd probably go back with

"Sorry Jose, Juventus are not being realistic here. They want €50m. I'm not signing that off unless we clear some of the existing defenders".

Is that "not backing the manager" or is that not just considered run of the mill day to day dealings in business, never mind a football club.

This would be good if Woodward wasn't pricing surplus defenders (Darmian) out of moves away from the club.

Drumpot · 23-07-2018 03:40PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Like is it generally not deemed as something that can happen? Is it an all or nothing scenario?

If Jose came to met and asked me to secure Sandro, and the results of negotiations were €50m and six figure wages I'd probably go back with

"Sorry Jose, Juventus are not being realistic here. They want €50m. I'm not signing that off unless we clear some of the existing defenders".

Is that "not backing the manager" or is that not just considered run of the mill day to day dealings in business, never mind a football club.

Jose: "I gave you a list of non priority players we could offload months ago, why are we now in a position where we cant get targets because you haven't trimmed the squad?. Are we Manchester United or Newcastle United ? What exactly are our ambitions ?"

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 03:40PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Like is it generally not deemed as something that can happen? Is it an all or nothing scenario?

If Jose came to met and asked me to secure Sandro, and the results of negotiations were €50m and six figure wages I'd probably go back with

"Sorry Jose, Juventus are not being realistic here. They want €50m. I'm not signing that off unless we clear some of the existing defenders".

Is that "not backing the manager" or is that not just considered run of the mill day to day dealings in business, never mind a football club.

"So offload Blind, Darmian, Smalling and Shaw like I told you to".

StringerBell · 23-07-2018 03:43PM

pjohnson wrote: »

This would be good if Woodward wasn't pricing surplus defenders (Darmian) out of moves away from the club.

Like he did Blind?

PhlegmyMoses · 23-07-2018 03:44PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Like is it generally not deemed as something that can happen? Is it an all or nothing scenario?

If Jose came to met and asked me to secure Sandro, and the results of negotiations were €50m and six figure wages I'd probably go back with

"Sorry Jose, Juventus are not being realistic here. They want €50m. I'm not signing that off unless we clear some of the existing defenders".

Is that "not backing the manager" or is that not just considered run of the mill day to day dealings in business, never mind a football club.

That different, that's not being ripped off for a player. The suggestion was that the board was unsure of how Jose has performed with the players already bought for him. So they might be concerned about letting him spend lots of money. If you're second guessing his performance and are reluctant to buy who he wants, then get rid. It's pointless if we aren't moving forward every summer, can't afford to stand still.

Mitch Connor · 23-07-2018 03:51PM

i'd have question marks over Jose trying to sell Martial, or Pogba, or if it were Lukaku, Matic, Blind or Lindelof.

But he is trying to replace Young, Darmian and according to some reports Smalling (to replace with an experienced CB).

If Jose was to resign in the morning, I would still want those players (and Valencia) replaced in the starting line up.

By the way.... WHAT THE FOOK is that fella we brought in from Juve last summer doing? (Very little from what I have heard). What a waste of time and wages.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

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