Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Will I Am Not · 18-07-2018 02:45PM

We need to sort out the defence and RW more than anything else.
Lewandowski and Thiago is just more of the same positions we already have covered.

Giggsy11 · 18-07-2018 02:49PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Totally disagree.

United continuing with players not at the level needed is why were are where we are, not lack of continuity

Our back line is players that were here when Fergie left - what more continuity do you want?

As for our defensive record... i've been through that one before. It is not a reflection on either the quality of our defenders or their defensive play. It is as a result of having the best keeper in the league and a side that is generally set up to be very slow paced and conservative.

If Jose considers that Young and Valencia, flanking Smalling and Jones, is good enough to win the league or the CL, then he should be immediately fired because he has no idea the level of football required to win either anymore.

We have signed 2 new CBs, if still Smalling and Jones are playing then Jose should reconsider his transfer targets. If Jose can't think of a better fullback than Valencia and Young, what can anyone do. He wanted new contract to Young, wants him to play 50 games. Valencia is his captain.

Our midfield and attack is completely new signings, still we don't look any better. Signing players is not the only solution.

We sign players and next summer we will have same discussion that players signed are not good enough.

Giggsy11 · 18-07-2018 02:50PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Not quite "preparing a bid" but "considering a bid for Lewandowski and Thiago from Bayern'.

https://twitter.com/IndyFootball/status/1019571618832625664

Miguel Delaney, he is a fraud and spoofer.

Mitch Connor · 18-07-2018 02:58PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

We have signed 2 new CBs, if still Smalling and Jones are playing then Jose should reconsider his transfer targets. If Jose can't think of a better fullback than Valencia and Young, what can anyone do. He wanted new contract to Young, wants him to play 50 games. Valencia is his captain.

Our midfield and attack is completely new signings, still we don't look any better. Signing players is not the only solution.

We sign players and next summer we will have same discussion that players signed are not good enough.

Young getting a new contract and Jose trusting him doesn't stop us wanting a full back (as many reoports indicate we do). Shaw is the player Jose wants to replace - with Young then likely becoming backup to that player.

Maybe Jose sees a longer term future in Lindelof, so wants to sell Smalling (as reports indicate) and replace him.

Our attack lacks balance - because we have a bunch of left sided players and no right sided players.

We are weak at full back.
We are weak at centre back.
We are weak on the right side.

As I said, kudos to Liverpool for identifying their weaknesses and addressing them. If United aren't looking for fullbacks, centre backs and right sided players then we are failing at the first step of even identifying weaknesses. That would, still, be a huge issue.

If Jose thinks a back up, young, right back and a central midfielder will turn us from the side that finished 19points back to champions, or being abject in Europe to Champions... well, Woodward needs to pull his finger out, draw up some courage and sack Mourinho.

If Jose has identified that a wide player (please for the right side), a couple of full backs, a centre back and centre mid are needed to be the top club in europe, or compete at that level, then Woodward needs to pull the finger out and get the targets in.

If the team starts the season with the squad as is, we'll be lucky to finish top 4 this season. If people at the club do not see the issues, then there needs to be a reevaluation of the club's processes and decision making because there would be a serious lack of understanding.

Liam McPoyle · 18-07-2018 03:04PM

bangkok wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/world-cup-2018/watch-messi-or-no-messi-we-fight-footage-emerges-of-rousing-paul-pogba-speeches-ahead-of-world-cup-games-37131124.html

Give that man the captains armband!!

Pogba put inconsistent form for his club last season to enjoy a terrific tournament in Russia.

If he can bring the kind of form he showed in the WC to the league, over a sustained period and not intermittently, then absolutely.

He has not done nearly enough at United to deserve it and no amount of fluff pieces will change that.

Giggsy11 · 18-07-2018 03:05PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Young getting a new contract and Jose trusting him doesn't stop us wanting a full back (as many reoports indicate we do). Shaw is the player Jose wants to replace - with Young then likely becoming backup to that player.

Maybe Jose sees a longer term future in Lindelof, so wants to sell Smalling (as reports indicate) and replace him.

Our attack lacks balance - because we have a bunch of left sided players and no right sided players.

We are weak at full back.
We are weak at centre back.
We are weak on the right side.

As I said, kudos to Liverpool for identifying their weaknesses and addressing them. If United aren't looking for fullbacks, centre backs and right sided players then we are failing at the first step of even identifying weaknesses. That would, still, be a huge issue.

If Jose thinks a back up, young, right back and a central midfielder will turn us from the side that finished 19points back to champions, or being abject in Europe to Champions... well, Woodward needs to pull his finger out, draw up some courage and sack Mourinho.

If Jose has identified that a wide player (please for the right side), a couple of full backs, a centre back and centre mid are needed to be the top club in europe, or compete at that level, then Woodward needs to pull the finger out and get the targets in.

If the team starts the season with the squad as is, we'll be lucky to finish top 4 this season. If people at the club do not see the issues, then there needs to be a reevaluation of the club's processes and decision making because there would be a serious lack of understanding.

We also have players who should be offloaded before adding few more. Also Smalling won't be sold, Everytime people say this, he always end up playing more and more games. Defensively he is better than anyone in the club, also there isn't a CB at club who even comes close to his aerial ability.

We are not weak at CB, we have good enough players.

Last season also we didn't have right winger, instead of signing one, Jose waned Perisic, who played all his career as LW.

Obvious there are holes in the team, shame Jose see it differently.

At ManUtd, coach is the boss, he decides which player should be signed. Hopefully this will change with additions to backroom staff.

Lord TSC · 18-07-2018 03:08PM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Oh god no, think of the all the groans as Fellaini and Dost are waiting to come on in the 80th minute to try and get a goal for us.

But the issue here is that most teams don't set up against us in a manner that allows us to exploit Lukaku's pace. A good 60% of league games, the opposition parks 10 players into their box, packed deep and low. And they do that because the truth is it's extremely effective against us. It utterly kills Sanchez, Mata, Rashford and Martial's games.

At that point, as much as it might not be sexy, we need an option off the bench who can get on the end of those crosses into packed boxes.

I hate how many people refuse to accept "Plan B"s are a vital part of the tactical side of games. If playing sexy football isn't working, you need to have something radically different ready to go, and other than Fellaini, we just don't have that currently.

I'd love Dost for that reason. Sure, we shouldn't want that as our overall play in every game. But we should have that option available if needed.

bangkok · 18-07-2018 03:18PM

Business Cat wrote: »

If he can bring the kind of form he showed in the WC to the league, over a sustained period and not intermittently, then absolutely.

He has not done nearly enough at United to deserve it and no amount of fluff pieces will change that.

Are you happy with valencia as captain then? The players at united seem to idolise pogba as well, i would be happy to see him get it

Mitch Connor · 18-07-2018 03:20PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

We also have players who should be offloaded before adding few more. Also Smalling won't be sold, Everytime people say this, he always end up playing more and more games. Defensively he is better than anyone in the club, also there isn't a CB at club who even comes close to his aerial ability.

We are not weak at CB, we have good enough players.

Last season also we didn't have right winger, instead of signing one, Jose waned Perisic, who played all his career as LW.

Obvious there are holes in the team, shame Jose see it differently.

At ManUtd, coach is the boss, he decides which player should be signed. Hopefully this will change with additions to backroom staff.

I honestly don't see how anyone could look at:

Jones - and think good enough.
Smalling - and thing good enough.
Rojo - and think good enough.

Baily - who knows to be honest. Barely puts a string of games together to be able to tell. part of the issue.
Lindelof - who knows to be honest. Looked rubbish at the start. Only played later in games Jose though would be the least testing for our defence.

Baily and Lindelof are the only ones I would be bothered to really give more time to because there are still question marks over them.

Jones has been here 6 or 7 years - we know what we will get. Smalling has been here 7 years - we know what we will get. In both cases, it is not good enough. Rojo has been here 4 years - we know what we are going to get with him too.

All our defenders have proven so far, at best, to be very good backup caliber players. None have proven to be elite level players. Worse, considering how long some of them have been here, none are capable of leading or organising a defence .

If we were to put all our CBs are the market tomorrow - which of them get bought by any of the following to be first choice or in that conversation? Madrid, Bayern, City, Juve, Barcelona? Hell, would Liverpool even swap Lovren for any of them?

I honestly think Baily would be the only one out of the lot, and given the last season he'd be a gamble.

If United want to be PL or CL winners, most of last seasons defence needs to be replaced. If that isn't seen... then thy club have huge, sestemic, structural problems that will cast us even further back than we are.

The current squad is not good enough, the proof is in the league placings and results.

Liam McPoyle · 18-07-2018 03:23PM

bangkok wrote: »

Are you happy with valencia as captain then? The players at united seem to idolise pogba as well, i would be happy to see him get it

Im not happy with Valencia next nor near the team, he has it purely by default.

The only one of the current regulars that I think deserves it is DDG.

After that I'd be happy with Matic getting it, followed by Rom.

Pogba is down the pecking order for me.

He certainly is not worthy of adulation from his team mates either, maybe a couple of the young lads like Rashford or McTominay but from seasoned pros, no chance. Where do you even get this stuff from? Idolised my bollocks.

fatherted1969 · 18-07-2018 03:24PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But Klopp said he would quit football before spending such fees. He didn't say "I'll quit unless such fees are funded by good business".

I mean he said it over United signing Pogba - funded by massive sponsorship deals and merchandise income. If it was terrible for United to fund such a deal in such a way, why is it ok for Liverpool to do so now? Is it cause Klopp was talking through his ass for the benifit of his fans and was as wrong then as United fans said? If that is the case, just acknowledge he was is a liar and/or a hypocrite.

£90m two years ago was huge. Two years later and were after seeing PSG blow that £90m fee out of the water.

Barkley cost £15m with 6 months on his contract, Jordan Ibe went for £15m, Zaha is valued at £60m+. Couthino was nearly £140m.

The fees are gone crazy. I doubt Jose, Klopp or any manger was expecting them to jump so much. I'd say they all thought the Pogba fee would be a record for a long time and that the market would normalise itself.

Like De Gea might have been worth £50m two years ago, now United wouldn't blink for less than £100m.

The market moved on. Klopp had to start paying large fees for excellent players or he could be paying £20m for average guys.

If the Alisson transfer goes through I wonder how Liverpool and Untieds spending compares since both managers came in? I'd think Liverpool will be slightly higher now.

Think Mourinho was quoted at the time saying that the Pogba fee will be proved to be considerably cheaper than fees paid out in the next transfer window. I'm surprised that Klopp was so out of touch with the transfer market.

Anyhoo I'm just happy to see all the pool fanboys doubling back on all the sneering they've been doing around transfer fees these days. No matter what fees he's paying out he still has to manage it and it remains to be seen whether he can get a group of players over the line in a championship in England.

At some point he has to set his team out to win a tight game and I'm not sure if he's able to win enough of these games to win a league. Time will tell

Cantona's Collars · 18-07-2018 03:27PM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Miguel Delaney, he is a fraud and spoofer.

A showpony journalist Bill.

Adamocovic · 18-07-2018 03:29PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I honestly don't see how anyone could look at:

Jones - and think good enough.......
.....

I admit, I'm a Jonesenite (Big Phil fan) but his name is always thrown into the mix. Personally don't see the point of dishing him out. He's a hugely valuable player to have in my eyes, gives his all, has some great games, loves the club, and acknowledging of his position and work required. Is he good enough for a spot on our team? Certainly think so.

His work-rate is unreal and valuable asset in preparation and training, leads to why José and Southgate are both full of praise for him.

The main criticism he gets is his injury history. I don't want to re-open that debate but I don't believe that to be enough of a reason to toss him to away.

He has one of the smallest wages in the club too so money isn't a concern. He is a player who has potential to start if injuries didn't hold him back, but is a valuable back-up or alternative to have in the team. I do not see how selling him will help us overall. We will end up in this market paying big money on a player just at his level or less, who will be on bigger wages than him, and may not have as good of an attitude.

I think Jones is an easy target for people complaining about the team. I rank the concern of bringing in a right-winger and two attacking full-backs way above our CB situation and certainly don't see how getting rid of Jones for another alternating CB will help our situation.

Giggsy11 · 18-07-2018 03:30PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I honestly don't see how anyone could look at:

Jones - and think good enough.
Smalling - and thing good enough.
Rojo - and think good enough.
.

Smalling has been consistent starter since Van Gaal took over and we have very good defensive record.

I don't understand how anyone can say Smalling isn't a good CB. Is he poor passer? Yes. Defensively? He is very good.

It's not even whether they are good enough, Jose thinks they are. It's on Jose to improve the team, he has signed 8 out of 10 outfield problems. If we still have so many gaps then Woodward should stop giving what Jose wants and should hire DoF.

If we were to put all our CBs are the market tomorrow - which of them get bought by any of the following to be first choice or in that conversation? Madrid, Bayern, City, Juve, Barcelona? Hell, would Liverpool even swap Lovren for any of them?

None of Liverpool, City, Arsenal, Chelsea CBs will be bought by Madrid, Juve, Barca, Bayern.

Will I Am Not · 18-07-2018 03:31PM

Sell one or both of Smalling and Jones and get in a CB with some leadership qualities. What’s Manolas’ situation at Roma? Someone like him with Bailly and Lindelof fighting it out for the other spot would instantly improve the defence.

yabadabado · 18-07-2018 03:33PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Not quite "preparing a bid" but "considering a bid for Lewandowski and Thiago from Bayern'.

https://twitter.com/IndyFootball/status/1019571618832625664

Has to be bull****, see no reason to sign either unless a major change in set up.

Make a double bid for Alaba and Kimmich :cool:

bangkok · 18-07-2018 03:34PM

Business Cat wrote: »

Im not happy with Valencia next nor near the team, he has it purely by default.

The only one of the current regulars that I think deserves it is DDG.

After that I'd be happy with Matic getting it, followed by Rom.

Pogba is down the pecking order for me.

He certainly is not worthy of adulation from his team mates either, maybe a couple of the young lads like Rashford or McTominay but from seasoned pros, no chance. Where do you even get this stuff from? Idolised my bollocks.

Seasoned pros like lukaku, mata and valencia??

Seasoned pros in france like lloris (who is captain) matuidi and giroud..

JaMarcus · 18-07-2018 03:34PM

fatherted1969 wrote: »

Think Mourinho was quoted at the time saying that the Pogba fee will be proved to be considerably cheaper than fees paid out in the next transfer window. I'm surprised that Klopp was so out of touch with the transfer market.

Anyhoo I'm just happy to see all the pool fanboys doubling back on all the sneering they've been doing around transfer fees these days. No matter what fees he's paying out he still has to manage it and it remains to be seen whether he can get a group of players over the line in a championship in England.

At some point he has to set his team out to win a tight game and I'm not sure if he's able to win enough of these games to win a league. Time will tell

If Liverpool do well in the league next year - God forbid they even win it - there won't be an asterisk next to it saying "*Yeah, but only after their manager spent more than he had previously indicated he would". Their fans won't give it a shít either if that's all the ammunition you have to goad them with if they're winning games and challenging for titles.

Fact is, I'd be very happy to double back on lots of shíte I've said and lots of shíte that Mourinho has said that I've agreed with, if it meant that we were addressing the very serious weaknesses in our team.

Mitch Connor · 18-07-2018 03:37PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

I admit, I'm a Jonesenite (Big Phil fan) but his name is always thrown into the mix. Personally don't see the point of dishing him out. He's a hugely valuable player to have in my eyes, gives his all, has some great games, loves the club, and acknowledging of his position and work required. Is he good enough for a spot on our team? Certainly think so.

His work-rate is unreal and valuable asset in preparation and training, leads to why José and Southgate are both full of praise for him.

The main criticism he gets is his injury history. I don't want to re-open that debate but I don't believe that to be enough of a reason to toss him to away.

He has one of the smallest wages in the club too so money isn't a concern. He is a player who has potential to start if injuries didn't hold him back, but is a valuable back-up or alternative to have in the team. I do not see how selling him will help us overall. We will end up in this market paying big money on a player just at his level or less, who will be on bigger wages than him, and may not have as good of an attitude.

I think Jones is an easy target for people complaining about the team. I rank the concern of bringing in a right-winger and two attacking full-backs way above our CB situation and certainly don't see how getting rid of Jones for another alternating CB will help our situation.

United should be aiming at (imo, obviously):

Dalot - New CB - Baily (?) - Sandro as a back four.

Backing up that would be:

Valencia - Jones - Lindelof - Young

Rojo and TFM could possibly round that defensive squad out.

Blind - Gone.
Smalling - Sell.
Darmian - Sell.

I don't understand how anyone could look at the haphazzard way we defend, the lack of composure or clarity in the back line, the lack of command and leadership, the lack of decisiveness - and think continuing with the same set of CBs is going to yield different results - when the guys we have seen most at fault for this (based on the amount of times played even last season) are ones that have been here 6 or 7 years. They are not suddenly going to be dependable leaders that exude calm.

That is even before we talk about ability on the ball, with respect to feeding midfield quickly and accurately.

Cantona's Collars · 18-07-2018 03:37PM

First game tomorrow night/Friday morning at 3am our time against Club America.

Adamocovic · 18-07-2018 03:38PM

Another one of our repetitive debates of the summer. Jones and Smalling.

It's gas so many call for them to be sold every season despite the fact that all the CBs we've brought in since Fergie's departure have failed to consistently keep them out of the team.

Blind
Rojo
Bailly
Lindelof

If people think getting rid of Jones and Smalling to bring in some other CB will make our team finally click so be it. But the two of them are not to blame for our lack of creativity at times up top, our poor delivery and attacks from full-backs, and our lack of a true RW.

xtal191 · 18-07-2018 03:40PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

First game tomorrow night/Friday morning at 3am our time against Club America.

Friday night/Sat morning

bangkok · 18-07-2018 03:49PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

United should be aiming at (imo, obviously):

Dalot - New CB - Baily (?) - Sandro as a back four.

Backing up that would be:

Valencia - Jones - Lindelof - Young

Rojo and TFM could possibly round that defensive squad out.

Blind - Gone.
Smalling - Sell.
Darmian - Sell.

I don't understand how anyone could look at the haphazzard way we defend, the lack of composure or clarity in the back line, the lack of command and leadership, the lack of decisiveness - and think continuing with the same set of CBs is going to yield different results - when the guys we have seen most at fault for this (based on the amount of times played even last season) are ones that have been here 6 or 7 years. They are not suddenly going to be dependable leaders that exude calm.

That is even before we talk about ability on the ball, with respect to feeding midfield quickly and accurately.

Maybe jose thinks our defenders are good... rojo recently got a new long term contract. I think he is very poor

Mitch Connor · 18-07-2018 03:55PM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Another one of our repetitive debates of the summer. Jones and Smalling.

It's gas so many call for them to be sold every season despite the fact that all the CBs we've brought in since Fergie's departure have failed to consistently keep them out of the team.

Blind
Rojo
Bailly
Lindelof

If people think getting rid of Jones and Smalling to bring in some other CB will make our team finally click so be it. But the two of them are not to blame for our lack of creativity at times up top, our poor delivery and attacks from full-backs, and our lack of a true RW.

I think part of the problem with our attack stems from defence.

1. inability to quickly and accurately get the ball into midfielders.
2. inability to quickly and accurately get the ball into the attackers (without hitting a 50/50 lump).
3. Set up of the team is defensive to compensate for the lack of trust we can place in the defence to deal with the opposition attack without falling to pieces.

Only reasons I don't call for the sales of Lindelof and Bailly.

Lindelof - young and only had one season. Plenty of time and potential for him to improve. Needs to be given a bit more time to prove either worth it or not.

Bailly - looked very good in his first season, not had a proper run of games since returning from injury. Would be happy to see him given another season to prove it was just bad luck on injuries and to try prove himself.

Smalling and Jones have had 6 or 7 years to prove they have the ability and character to be first choice CBs for United. Jones I would keep simply cause I'd trust him a bit more than Smalling.

To keep persisting with players who have not proven themselves good enough, simply because other players have also not proven themeselves good enough, is stupid. We need better players. We need more quality.

Mitch Connor · 18-07-2018 03:56PM

bangkok wrote: »

Maybe jose thinks our defenders are good... rojo recently got a new long term contract. I think he is very poor

Which, again, would point to a failing on Jose's part, and a huge worry.

fatherted1969 · 18-07-2018 03:59PM

I just think in terms of purchases we need the CB's are way behind proper full backs and A right sided midfielder. All well and good saying the CB isn't good enough but imo the full backs and RM are absolute priorities and I don't even see those positions sorted in the next 3 weeks

Trigger · 18-07-2018 03:59PM

Edit: I may be wrong

Cantona's Collars · 18-07-2018 04:01PM

Roy Keane helped launch the Liam Miller memorial game today.
Some top players that Miller shared a pitch with will line out at Turner's Cross in September.

Trigger · 18-07-2018 04:04PM

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Roy Keane helped launch the Liam Miller memorial game today.
Some top players that Miller shared a pitch with will line out at Turner's Cross in September.

It’s on a Tuesday at 3pm, don’t think it was thought through very much, might still get a crowd but reckon there would have been higher demand if it was in the evening

Adamcp898 · 18-07-2018 04:04PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

But the issue here is that most teams don't set up against us in a manner that allows us to exploit Lukaku's pace. A good 60% of league games, the opposition parks 10 players into their box, packed deep and low. And they do that because the truth is it's extremely effective against us. It utterly kills Sanchez, Mata, Rashford and Martial's games.

At that point, as much as it might not be sexy, we need an option off the bench who can get on the end of those crosses into packed boxes.

I hate how many people refuse to accept "Plan B"s are a vital part of the tactical side of games. If playing sexy football isn't working, you need to have something radically different ready to go, and other than Fellaini, we just don't have that currently.

I'd love Dost for that reason. Sure, we shouldn't want that as our overall play in every game. But we should have that option available if needed.

You're slightly conflating the reasons behind why so many teams play against us the way they do. The primary reason we face packed, narrow defensive setups is because teams know we don't have the type of creative players that are capable of playing through those lines. Lukaku's strengths and weaknesses help feed into that reasoning I'm sure but they're not the main reason. I'm not nitpicking with that, I just think it's important to make the distinction if you want to discuss plan B's and possible alternative ways we could look at playing.

And I didn't refuse plan B's anywhere in the post or even mention them; I don't think think anybody would be against them and most likely everyone can see their value. But, as you pointed out yourself, we already have a more than capable squad member in Fellaini for the desperation 7 minute barrage of long balls into the box plan B.

Now if you want to sign Dost to truly make use of him as a player and to allow for the option to rest Lukaku, something Jose bemoaned last season, then I don't believe our squad is equipped for that either. As I said in the post, he needs to play in a team where the ball is forced wide and crossed in from the byline to be of value. We have plenty of wide forwards but no wingers to do that. This is why I think he would be a pointless addition to the squad.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Comments