What would happen if all welfare payments ended today

General disarray followed by mobs from salt of the earth areas roaming from middle class no community area to middle class no community area and taking what they want.

What would happen is quite simply a return to the early part of the 19th century. You'd have a huge uptick in poverty levels, large numbers of people begging, a big rise in crime, a big rise in totally preventable diseases as people would stop going to the doctor / accessing health services, a very steep rise in homelessness, old people in rags, picking food out of bins that sort of thing.

Then you also have to remember that welfare payments are almost 100% spent back into the economy as they're largely spent on essentials. So all sorts of companies and businesses would see a reduction in demand for food, essential items and you'd see a big upswing in people stealing essential items.

If you were to dismantle things like access to education, you'd see a stark reversal in social mobility and a swing back to a bygone age of a 'working class' and a 'middle class' with no hope of ever really getting out of poverty traps.

For all the moaning about welfare that goes on online, most Irish extended families have some contact with the welfare system and have benefited from it over the years either in terms of older folks on full state pensions, access to education payments, periods of unemployment where they've accessed social welfare supports, back to education allowances, grants to start businesses, you name it..

There's a small % of people who will always be somewhat unemployable for various reasons in most societies too and you'll get a smaller % who game the system. Throwing away the entire welfare system because of a small number of abuses would be utterly ridiculous.

The expansion of the welfare state here has been a huge part of improving living conditions, improving opportunity and also removing dependence on abusive organisations that gave handouts with enormous strings and developed a huge industry out of the poor. Everything from magdalene laundries, industrial schools, etc etc were basically just an cruel extension of the workhouse concept of the 19th century with a bit of extra judgmental dogma thrown in for good measure.

If you want to go back to the conditions of grinding poverty that existed here not that many decades ago, that's what ripping apart the welfare state would bring.

You can reform systems to minimise abuse, but whether you realise it or not, you are benefiting from the welfare state. It's providing services and supports that quietly keep society together and improved the lot for a hell of a lot of people who are likely your customers, colleagues, neighbours, relatives etc etc.

I get sick to the back teeth of these kinds of self-centred, myopic views of the economy and society that only care about their immediate household and have no vision of Ireland or broader society at all.

If you want to live in a dog-eat-dog hell hole, where there's no social supports, there are still quite a few of them around the world you can choose from. Most of them aren't exactly pleasant places to live.

Also, the robust welfare system here actually played an enormous part in easing our way out of the 2008 economic crash. If we hadn't had it in place, a lot people would have been in a much worse situation and the economy may have spiralled into a far worse mess than it did. The welfare system is a safety net, it's a cushion and a big buffer against the extremes of economic uncertainty. It also allows a lot of flexibility as it's one of the only ways many people have of picking up the pieces after a redundancy or job loss and changing career, retraining and so on.