What would happen if all welfare payments ended today

badabing106

Never to return.. What would happen in a month, six months or a year down the line

JustJoe7240

I suppose people would turn off the daytime telly go find jobs?

Conservatory

General disarray followed by mobs from salt of the earth areas roaming from middle class no community area to middle class no community area and taking what they want.

Mint Sauce

Oh, a shiney new welfare bashing thread.

<grabs popcorn>

iamwhoiam

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

I suppose people would turn off the daytime telly go find jobs?

Even those on invalidity allowance , maternity benefits , blind person allowance and old age pensions ?

PirateShampoo

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

I suppose people would turn off the daytime telly go find jobs?

And I suppose there is enough jobs for 100% employment? So once all the jobs are filled what happens to everyone else? Training course's? Well I suppose we have to keep our already bloated Public Sector running.

We could always march our unemployed into the sea, but who would supply the babies for the future generations?

jamesbere

We all hate the welfare
We all hate the welfare

Na Na Na Na hey
Na Na Na Na hey

retalivity

It would be like the purge

Blazer

It would be chaos and anarchy.
What would you do to feed your family if tomorrow morning you lost your job and had no money?

gifted

badabing106 wrote: »

Never to return.. What would happen in a month, six months or a year down the line

Might be better to ask this between Monday and Friday and 8.30 to 5pm....lol lol

SCOOP 64

But of course will we keep child benefit , that goes without saying.

Halloween Jack

Local businesses will lose about 20bn a year in income

Vestiapx

Blazer wrote: »

It would be chaos and anarchy.
What would you do to feed your family if tomorrow morning you lost your job and had no money?

There’s stuff in the freezer.

screamer

Brazil...... Without the weather of course. Great place if you have money, **** if you don't.....
TBH no problem with a nothing in nothing out welfare system, it'd do away with future generations of dole heads.

screamer

Blazer wrote: »

It would be chaos and anarchy.
What would you do to feed your family if tomorrow morning you lost your job and had no money?

You get another job.... Do you get it? Workers keep on working cause they have to. Scroungers keep scrounging cause they can.

K.Flyer

badabing106 wrote: »

Never to return.. What would happen in a month, six months or a year down the line

Take a look at the poorer areas of countries with absolutely no welfare system and their health and crime statistics and you'll get some idea.

Graces7

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

I suppose people would turn off the daytime telly go find jobs?

You win a top award for the .... scuse me mods please....most ignorant and.....post of the decade.

Banned.

TheValeyard

retalivity wrote: »

It would be like the purge

Graces7

screamer wrote: »

You get another job.... Do you get it? Workers keep on working cause they have to. Scroungers keep scrounging cause they can.

AAARRRRGGHHH !

Graces7

screamer wrote: »

Brazil...... Without the weather of course. Great place if you have money, **** if you don't.....
TBH no problem with a nothing in nothing out welfare system, it'd do away with future generations of dole heads.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr!

EdgeCase

What would happen is quite simply a return to the early part of the 19th century. You'd have a huge uptick in poverty levels, large numbers of people begging, a big rise in crime, a big rise in totally preventable diseases as people would stop going to the doctor / accessing health services, a very steep rise in homelessness, old people in rags, picking food out of bins that sort of thing.

Then you also have to remember that welfare payments are almost 100% spent back into the economy as they're largely spent on essentials. So all sorts of companies and businesses would see a reduction in demand for food, essential items and you'd see a big upswing in people stealing essential items.

If you were to dismantle things like access to education, you'd see a stark reversal in social mobility and a swing back to a bygone age of a 'working class' and a 'middle class' with no hope of ever really getting out of poverty traps.

For all the moaning about welfare that goes on online, most Irish extended families have some contact with the welfare system and have benefited from it over the years either in terms of older folks on full state pensions, access to education payments, periods of unemployment where they've accessed social welfare supports, back to education allowances, grants to start businesses, you name it..

There's a small % of people who will always be somewhat unemployable for various reasons in most societies too and you'll get a smaller % who game the system. Throwing away the entire welfare system because of a small number of abuses would be utterly ridiculous.

The expansion of the welfare state here has been a huge part of improving living conditions, improving opportunity and also removing dependence on abusive organisations that gave handouts with enormous strings and developed a huge industry out of the poor. Everything from magdalene laundries, industrial schools, etc etc were basically just an cruel extension of the workhouse concept of the 19th century with a bit of extra judgmental dogma thrown in for good measure.

If you want to go back to the conditions of grinding poverty that existed here not that many decades ago, that's what ripping apart the welfare state would bring.

You can reform systems to minimise abuse, but whether you realise it or not, you are benefiting from the welfare state. It's providing services and supports that quietly keep society together and improved the lot for a hell of a lot of people who are likely your customers, colleagues, neighbours, relatives etc etc.

I get sick to the back teeth of these kinds of self-centred, myopic views of the economy and society that only care about their immediate household and have no vision of Ireland or broader society at all.

If you want to live in a dog-eat-dog hell hole, where there's no social supports, there are still quite a few of them around the world you can choose from. Most of them aren't exactly pleasant places to live.

Also, the robust welfare system here actually played an enormous part in easing our way out of the 2008 economic crash. If we hadn't had it in place, a lot people would have been in a much worse situation and the economy may have spiralled into a far worse mess than it did. The welfare system is a safety net, it's a cushion and a big buffer against the extremes of economic uncertainty. It also allows a lot of flexibility as it's one of the only ways many people have of picking up the pieces after a redundancy or job loss and changing career, retraining and so on.

Raging_Ninja

PirateShampoo wrote: »

And I suppose there is enough jobs for 100% employment? So once all the jobs are filled what happens to everyone else? Training course's? Well I suppose we have to keep our already bloated Public Sector running.

We could always march our unemployed into the sea, but who would supply the babies for the future generations?

Why is it that you believe there are a set number of jobs and once they are filled no more can be created? Suggest you study economics.

kneemos

I think the thread is suggesting that if the dole was removed the small percentage of lifetime dolers would see the light and get jobs...which of course is nonsense.

K.Flyer

screamer wrote: »

You get another job.... Do you get it? Workers keep on working cause they have to. Scroungers keep scrounging cause they can.

Not everyone in receipt of a social welfare payment is a scrounger.

The J Stands for Jay

kneemos wrote: »

I think the thread is suggesting that if the dole was removed the small percentage of lifetime dolers would see the light and get jobs...which of course is nonsense.

I think the OP was more interested in hearing mad Max or purge style imagination.

K.Flyer

kneemos wrote: »

I think the thread is suggesting that if the dole was removed the small percentage of lifetime dolers would see the light and get jobs...which of course is nonsense.

That's not how the o.p. is worded though, they referred to All welfare payment, so I will presume they include everything including the O.A.P. as well.

pleas advice

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

I suppose people would turn off the daytime telly go find jobs?

Auguste Comte

Blazer wrote: »

It would be chaos and anarchy.
What would you do to feed your family if tomorrow morning you lost your job and had no money?

As Jean-Jacques Rousseau said "When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich."

FurBabyMomma

I'm middle class and have happened to be in jobs that don't pay me while I'm on maternity leave. So maternity benefit is important to our family. I guess I should feel bad about claiming it though?

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.

Donald Trump

PirateShampoo wrote: »

And I suppose there is enough jobs for 100% employment? So once all the jobs are filled what happens to everyone else? Training course's? Well I suppose we have to keep our already bloated Public Sector running.

We could always march our unemployed into the sea, but who would supply the babies for the future generations?

Imagine that "all the jobs" are filled but you don't have one.


Maybe you'll offer to do something for someone else who doesn't have time to do it, or to learn how to do it, for themselves as they're too busy working. and they give you a fiver for helping out



Hey presto, you made a new job.....but how did this happen seeing as how "all the jobs" were taken....Must be magic

Zebra3

I guess the OP is talking about social welfare payments but not business welfare payments?

ThunbergsAreGo

Blazer wrote: »

It would be chaos and anarchy.
What would you do to feed your family if tomorrow morning you lost your job and had no money?

Get up on my feet and let go of every excuse
What would you do
Cause I wouldn't want my baby, to go through what I went through

Danny Donut

badabing106 wrote: »

Never to return.. What would happen in a month, six months or a year down the line

Pensioners starving - until the hypathermia got them. Maybe we could reintroduce the workhouse


Widows with young families similar - still there's always the laundry, they were great and they got a really nice starch to collars.


Bosses doing whatever they wanted because no one would risk saying boo.


Lovely:rolleyes:

Reati

Chewbacca wrote: »

The problem is, most people personally know people who play the system and get away with it.

The waaah waaah gimme gimme I'm entitled to it fcuktards are fcuking pr1cks and are fcuking lazy cnuts.

Well, in regards to the people I personally know anyway. However, Iv no problem with genuine cases, just the long term leeches.

And the same moaners can report fraud and abuse via a anonymous website. Or is it just moaners that want to bad mouth the system and the people doing but are too Irish to actually to anything about it.

the purple tin

Sales of cider, pyjamas and chinese takeaways would plummet.

Yer Da sells Avon

If welfare payments ended today, the dregs of AH would find someone else to bash.

CrankyHaus

Reati wrote: »

And the same moaners can report fraud and abuse via a anonymous website. Or is it just moaners that want to bad mouth the system and the people doing but are too Irish to actually to anything about it.

Is there much point reporting when it is treated so leniently by the courts?

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2805144/finglas-mum-michelle-burke-las-vegas-wedding-social-welfare/

Hector Bellend

Think of all the off licences that would go out of business

CruelCoin

"What would happen if all welfare payments ended today"

There wouldn't be an intact front door in the land.

BorneTobyWilde

A lot of people need it, so many are just never ever going to work ever ever ever ever ever ever.

Huntergonzo

Welfare ain't going anywhere, the state budgets for it and is happy to do so.

The state pays for those who need it, ie those with medical needs, the elderly etc etc and it also pays for the wasters who want to do nothing and will do nothing till the day they die.

In the latter case, just imagine the state as the working parent and the waster as their hopeless case child. The parent (state) then has a decision to make, a) fund the child to keep it alive or b) cut the cord and let the child die.

The state currently chooses to fund the waster, and look ultimately that money just keeps going round and round anyway because most of it is spent on booze and fags. So I'm pretty indifferent to the whole thing.

Pauliedragon

The country wouldn't save any money if welfare stopped suddenly. All the money would have to be re directed to police and other security forces to control the fall out.

Kermit.de.frog

The United States handles this very well. If you don't get off your arse within a few months you are effectively made homeless and destitute.

There are no questions, no debate - you have to work. You have to earn your way.

This fear of actual consequences is part motivator of an entrepreneurial society because people literally have no choice.

So to answer the OP - it would hurt people but maybe that is the medicine that is needed. Otherwise I can't see any difference for people who contribute to society.

Gatling

Imagine what they could do with the near 20 billion per year in savings if payments ceased immediately.

Operation fend for themselves would be a go

arctictree

They would have to remove the minimum wage at the same time so enough jobs would be created to employ people who need money for food.

Kermit.de.frog

Another point is in the US there is no expectation of getting help from the state. From childhood they know the consequences of not contributing.

There is no tax-free $200 per week waiting at the nearest post office for you.

The more you think about the fact people get €200 a week in this country and they can literally do sweet fcuk all for it is amazing.

You can go from 18 years of age till the day you die living entirely on the state.

Even if you are the dumbest left winger going you would have to say that that situation is hugely damaging to society.

It breeds personal irresponsibility, laziness and dependency which is devastating and it should not be allowed.

€65 million in pension payments to former politicians

https://www.rte.ie/amp/711388/

end of the road

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The United States handles this very well. If you don't get off your arse within a few months you are effectively made homeless and destitute.

There are no questions, no debate - you have to work. You have to earn your way.

This fear of actual consequences is part motivator of an entrepreneurial society because people literally have no choice.

So to answer the OP - it would hurt people but maybe that is the medicine that is needed. Otherwise I can't see any difference for people who contribute to society.

this "fear of actual consequences" also seems to be by the looks of it, a part motivator of a huge crime problem and prison population and the costs that go with it, as well as apparently quite the amount of destitution. so, certainly not a route i would suggest we go down if we want a properly functioning society.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Another point is in the US there is no expectation of getting help from the state. From childhood they know the consequences of not contributing.

There is no tax-free $200 per week waiting at the nearest post office for you.

The more you think about the fact people get €200 a week in this country and they can literally do sweet fcuk all for it is amazing.

You can go from 18 years of age till the day you die living entirely on the state.

Even if you are the dumbest left winger going you would have to say that that situation is hugely damaging to society.

It breeds personal irresponsibility, laziness and dependency which is devastating and it should not be allowed.

our system is the least worst option IMO. the type of system you want, as in the american system, seems to cause more issues then it is actually worth.

super_furry

Thankfully Ireland is better than that and there's not a single political party in the country with the will, desire or demand to ape American right wing politics. Even our most right wing party are left on the political spectrum to the Democrats.

Jim Bob Scratcher

end of the road wrote: »

this "fear of actual consequences" also seems to be by the looks of it, a part motivator of a huge crime problem and prison population and the costs that go with it, as well as apparently quite the amount of destitution. so, certainly not a route i would suggest we go down if we want a properly functioning society.



our system is the least worst option IMO. the type of system you want, as in the american system, seems to cause more issues then it is actually worth.

Good points there, it's probably the most likely reason of the high prison population. If you have no money, you'll have to resort to crime to get it.