Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

marno21 · 03-07-2018 04:44PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

That runway in Cork is short

A321neoLR is a bigger and heavier plane than the 737 MAX 8, it wont be able to do a MTOW departure from Cork

Norwegian has admitted it cannot operate fully loaded out of Cork

I've been scouring for a while but I can't find the runway length required for an A321LR

https://www.independent.ie/business/aer-lingus-eyes-corkus-service-with-new-jets-says-iag-boss-34679697.html

Willie Walsh seems to indicate it's possible, and I'm sure he's looked into this more than I have.

kub · 03-07-2018 04:52PM

marno21 wrote: »

I've been scouring for a while but I can't find the runway length required for an A321LR

https://www.independent.ie/business/aer-lingus-eyes-corkus-service-with-new-jets-says-iag-boss-34679697.html

Willie Walsh seems to indicate it's possible, and I'm sure he's looked into this more than I have.

That he did and as he was once an Aer Lingus pilot then he has a grasp on the technical details.

Meanwhile 31,000 is a good number:

https://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/31000-travelled-on-the-Cork-to-Boston-service-in-its-first-year-120f15d3-9978-4a3e-90f8-e847da6127f0-ds

Shamrockj · 03-07-2018 05:30PM

I'm sure the runway length would be a slight issue. Could see a possibility as Dublin is pretty full these days and only getting busier. There are quite regular connections to the UK as well if connections were considered.

smurfjed · 03-07-2018 05:39PM

Have a look here....

http://www.airbus.com/aircraft/support-services/airport-operations-and-technical-data/aircraft-characteristics.html

I dont know what the differences are between the A321NEO and A321LR, or if these changes are only fuel related.

A321LR appears to have a MTOM of 97,000 kgs and 3 Additional Fuel Tanks

basill · 03-07-2018 06:52PM

That article was from 2016 when the only thing known about the 321LR was from the sales blurb produced by Airbus. The data that AL now have makes for very different reading on the aircrafts range and take off performance. Services out of Cork are unlikely as the aircraft stands at the moment.

Also bear in mind that there has always been canibalisation between SNN and ORK. You may well see the 321LR in SNN in the future once the 757s are gone. We will have to wait and see what the route announcements are but that is unlikely until the delivery dates are firmed up.

marno21 · 03-07-2018 06:56PM

The most likely services out of Cork will be to New York or Boston. The A321LR has a range of 4000nm and Cork-JFK is 2,700nm, Boston shorter. I would imagine if the A321 is anything near what it claims to be in terms of short runway performance it should make it out of 2133m Cork to travel to New York

goingnowhere · 03-07-2018 07:10PM

SNN will certainly get 2 A321neolr's, maybe even a another for ORD, could even see the morning SNN to LHR and back run as a A321

Its easy say Cork works, problem is thats assuming the wind isn't blowing the wrong way, which is normally the case so the crosswind has a impact. A321neolr is challenge as you can't have a full fuel full load case you have to balance one off the other

smurfjed · 03-07-2018 07:19PM

Marno21, have a look at the link that i posted, you can easily see how badly a 321 is affected by the short runway, the 4000 nms is a pipe dream without taking a substantial payload hit.

Van.Bosch · 03-07-2018 08:04PM

While EI could make JFK/BOS work from ORK if they can make more money ex DUB to NE USA/Canada then they will allocate the plane there.

roadmaster · 03-07-2018 08:14PM

Is there any chance that they would extend the runway at cork so the likes of the new aer lingus planes could use it or would it not be viable to extend it?

kub · 04-07-2018 01:06AM

roadmaster wrote: »

Is there any chance that they would extend the runway at cork so the likes of the new aer lingus planes could use it or would it not be viable to extend it?

Rumours have been going on for years before the crash, the debt for the terminal building is still being payed down.
The only way Cork will get an extension to 16/34 is a local minister getting his finger out.
So no fear of that for a long long time.

Bussywussy · 04-07-2018 08:41AM

The A321LR delivery has been pushed back at least 2 months.

zone 1 · 04-07-2018 09:47AM

cork NY never aerlingus........cork is lucky with what it has , i didnt see any try to muscle out NW when they came to cork for TA . they sat on the fence and hoped it goes belly up

trellheim · 04-07-2018 11:43AM

Wonder if there is scope to do a shorthop DUB-SNN for immigration and then do the long hop I was only thinking about this, why not use SNN as an interlining hub from a few key venues as it has the room to expand

04-07-2018 12:18PM

trellheim wrote: »

Wonder if there is scope to do a shorthop DUB-SNN for immigration and then do the long hop I was only thinking about this, why not use SNN as an interlining hub from a few key venues as it has the room to expand

Which would be forever known as the Shannon Stopover II.

It won’t happen due to cost, time, delays etc etc

Personally I’d rather chew my own arm off rather than have to do a stopover on a short long haul flight.

trellheim · 04-07-2018 12:33PM

That EDI and GLA traffic interlining doesn't need to do so through DUB if the price is right, you have a quiet preclearance rather than duffys circus in Dublin

04-07-2018 12:46PM

trellheim wrote: »

That EDI and GLA traffic interlining doesn't need to do so through DUB if the price is right, you have a quiet preclearance rather than duffys circus in Dublin

That’s assuming that the passengers ex EDI/GLA want to only go to the destinations served from Shannon. For every Stobart flying in to Dublin with connecting passengers they aren’t just wanting to go to Boston and New York.

Certainly it could be done as long as the schedules allowed. The back up to doing it through Dublin for the airlines is the underlying Origin and Destination traffic between Dublin and Scotland that supports the flights as they stand. The problem for Shannon is how many passengers want to travel just between the two everyday anyway.

trellheim · 04-07-2018 12:54PM

I am viewing this in the context of could you make a hull pay to interline EDI to ORD via SNN or some other city pair . The preclearance scrum is not a selling point in Dub anymore quite the opposite.

munchkin_utd · 04-07-2018 01:04PM

trellheim wrote: »

I am viewing this in the context of could you make a hull pay to interline EDI to ORD via SNN or some other city pair . The preclearance scrum is not a selling point in Dub anymore quite the opposite.

funny, I was chatting to a lad in Munich the week before last (Italian born, living in Germany, no links with Ireland at all) and he was singing the praises of the preclearance in Dublin.

He flew Munich to Boston and the transfer time was about 2 hours in Dublin, he was through preclearance relatively quickly and then managed a half dozen whiskey samples before boarding the plane. Aside from preclearance which to him was a revelation (and the free whiskey), he found the whole aer lingus experience to be great and at a more competitive price than the extortionate direct flight options, and it'll be his first choice for the next time he is travelling transatlantic.

04-07-2018 01:31PM

trellheim wrote: »

The preclearance scrum is not a selling point in Dub anymore quite the opposite.

I haven’t done preclearance in Dublin in a long time, I have done it in JFK and Orlando and I was lucky enough in JFK to be on an early enough arrival and one of the first off the plane so it was quick enough. However in Orlando it was very hot (temp)and slow and I would have preferred to have done everything in Dublin.

I will be preclearing in Dublin regularly in the next few years and for me I’d rather stand for (rumoured) 2-3 hours(at worst) in Dublin queuing (sure I’d be sitting waiting anyway as I don’t usually shop in airports)before I fly than waiting an hour or two in my destination as that is when I need to be off and driving to my hotel and when I’m more tired.

You may feel in your opinion that preclearing is not a selling point but for many it is a massive bonus. There will always be peak times for everything and there will be times when the booths get several difficult to process passengers who slow up the system. It probably doesn’t help that the US gov keep changing the requirements slowing down the rate the agents can process paxs.

trellheim · 04-07-2018 01:36PM

Hi - slightly missing my point - more that preclearance in SNN would be faster better and more relaxed. Making use of an underutilized asset, ( both preclearance and the airport ).

04-07-2018 01:58PM

trellheim wrote: »

Hi - slightly missing my point - more that preclearance in SNN would be faster better and more relaxed. Making use of an underutilized asset, ( both preclearance and the airport ).

See my response an hour ago in that regard, I was addressing your point about Dublin in the last post.

Again Trellheim there needs to be an underlying demand to fly between Glasgow/Edinburgh and Shannon to support any flight. It can’t be purely based on sending passengers through an under-utilised airport. The reason Dublin works is because of the vast amount of inbound passengers from multiple airports wanting to either go to Dublin or fly onwards out of Dublin. That is my point.

And for your info Edinburgh already arrives in to Shannon before the departures to Boston and New York, so technically Aer Lingus is already doing it and I checked Aer Lingus webpage and did a dummy booking and it’s an option plus it’s cheaper than via Dublin on dates selected. It all comes down to what the passenger selects.

Tenger · 04-07-2018 04:33PM

basill wrote: »

................ You may well see the 321LR in SNN in the future once the 757s are gone. We will have to wait and see what the route announcements are but that is unlikely until the delivery dates are firmed up.

I dont have any insider info but it seems obvious that the A321LR will replace the B757s. So 2 in each airport automatically with 2 more for new routes of additional capacity in the North-East USA.

Whats this about a 2 month delay? Those that mean from Q2 to Q32019?

alancostello · 04-07-2018 06:38PM

Tenger wrote: »

basill wrote: »

................ You may well see the 321LR in SNN in the future once the 757s are gone. We will have to wait and see what the route announcements are but that is unlikely until the delivery dates are firmed up.

I dont have any insider info but it seems obvious that the A321LR will replace the B757s. So 2 in each airport automatically with 2 more for new routes of additional capacity in the North-East USA.

Whats this about a 2 month delay? Those that mean from Q2 to Q32019?

The first A321LRs are exclusively for expansion and new routes, the 757s are staying until 2020 when the last of the A321LRs come to replace them.

Shn99 · 04-07-2018 07:15PM

alancostello wrote: »

The first A321LRs are exclusively for expansion and new routes, the 757s are staying until 2020 when the last of the A321LRs come to replace them.

One 757 is to go next year, presumably CJX

Hotblack Desiato · 05-07-2018 12:32AM

marno21 wrote: »

The most likely services out of Cork will be to New York or Boston. The A321LR has a range of 4000nm and Cork-JFK is 2,700nm, Boston shorter. I would imagine if the A321 is anything near what it claims to be in terms of short runway performance it should make it out of 2133m Cork to travel to New York

I'm presuming that they don't just consider takeoff performance, but stopping distance on the same runway in an emergency overweight landing with possible degradation to aircraft systems?

smurfjed · 05-07-2018 05:47AM

but stopping distance on the same runway in an emergency overweight landing with possible degradation to aircraft systems?

This isn't a considered factor and remember that Shannon is only up the road.

The B747-400 aircraft needs over 15000 feet of planned runway to land with Anti Skid inoperative, there are very few airports with runways of that length, so if emergency overweight landings were factored into airport selections, you would have never seen the B747-400 operate to anywhere.

Tenger · 05-07-2018 10:14AM

Shn99 wrote: »

One 757 is to go next year, presumably CJX

Yup, saw this before Xmas in the EI ‘future fleet’ slide. 2, possibly 3 new narrow body routes in 2019?
Summer 18: 4 B757, 0 A321, 12 A330,
Summer 19: 3 B757, 4 A321, 12 A330,
Summer 20: 0 B757, 8 A321, 12 A330,
Summer 21: 0 B757, 12 A321, 12 A330.

*EDIT; looked back to mid Nov and saw the posts about the IAG capital markets day, have adjusted the above figures. Note that in Nov 2017 they were planning 12 A330 and here we are 6 months later with 13 in service with EI. So these numbers are not set in stone. EI might decide to keep a couple of B757 into late 2020.

roundymac · 05-07-2018 10:15AM

zone 1 wrote: »

cork NY never aerlingus........cork is lucky with what it has , i didnt see any try to muscle out NW when they came to cork for TA . they sat on the fence and hoped it goes belly up

Once they build the motorway between Limerick and Cork you can forget about about T/A out of Cork.

zone 1 · 05-07-2018 10:39AM

is there any demand for 757s to be kept on the fleet for few more years

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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