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Luas Fine - but tapped my card!

245

Comments

  • #32
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Perhaps the SCV could also be configured to emit a specific "Invalid" beep,as with the Bus machines ?

    All I got the same type of beep for tag on, off and invalid if I am not mistaken.


  • #33
    verycool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭verycool


    You've two options;

    1) pay the fine

    2) contest it here: https://payments.luas.ie/onlineexplanation.aspx (link to pdf form on that page too).

    Arguing this "90 second" rule with randomers on the internet will get you nowhere.


  • #34
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    "Oue BEST advice"......:confused:

    So,are we to take it that there are other levels of "advice" available from the Operator ?
    I think the article is very clear that there is another option -

    "You can also Touch On before the 1st tram trip; change trams and Touch Off after the 2nd tram trip but be careful to not Touch Off or On by accident."

    It then says this is likely to lead to a higher fare. So this is perfectly valid, but more expensive for the passenger, which is why it recommends the other option.

    I think that's perfectly reasonable


  • #35
    cdeb
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,505 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Perhaps the SCV could also be configured to emit a specific "Invalid" beep,as with the Bus machines ?
    There is a very different beep for tag on/off and an error


  • #36
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    What do you do when machine said "invalid"?

    First of all the message is not 'invalid' it is the rather more informative 'just validated' which appears on the screen which is made more clearer that it is not a tag on by emitting an error sound as well as a red light.

    I'm not quite sure why you tagged off after getting of one tram and switching to another because the time was increased following the open of the Green Line extension to Broombridge for a complete journey so it is more than enough to not be timed out.


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  • #37
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    devnull wrote: »
    First of all the message is not 'invalid' it is the rather more informative 'just validated' which appears on the screen which is made more clearer that it is not a tag on by emitting an error sound as well as a red light.

    I'm not quite sure why you tagged off after getting of one tram and switching to another because the time was increased following the open of the Green Line extension to Broombridge for a complete journey so it is more than enough to not be timed out.

    I don't know the time was increased, it is not written at the stops or at the machines... I know I should tap, I tapped.


  • #38
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,903 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    cdeb wrote: »
    There is a very different beep for tag on/off and an error
    There is a big red light an invalid message and a lower beep noise...its pretty clear when its invalid.


  • #39
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,903 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    All I got the same type of beep for tag on, off and invalid if I am not mistaken.
    I think you are, very different sounds for an invalid tag as well as a red light and an invalid message on machine.


  • #40
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    I don't know the time was increased, it is not written at the stops or at the machines... I know I should tap, I tapped.

    I'm not quite sure the point you are getting at here?

    On one hand you appear to be arguing that you didn't know how it worked in relation to time periods between tag on and tag off because you didn't go looking for it, whilst on the other hand you are saying you thought it was 90 minutes because you did go looking for it?

    The smartcard ticketing system on Leap has always been set-up in a way to ensure that people can complete any genuine journey without needing to worry about being timed out so the end user doesn't have to worry about these things.

    You had three cues 'just validated' a red light and an error tone that you were not tagged on and you still boarded the tram. I'd simply pay up and put this one down to experience myself as I don't see you getting it overturned.


  • #41
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    But why didn't the OP tag off at SSG? You get off the LUAS you tag-off, simple.


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  • #42
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    It does say 'Just Validated'

    The reason being is to avoid multiple accidental tag on/off events if you held the card on the reader and in the bus case it is to stop the card being passed back to be reused again.

    Rules are tag on and tag off, you didn't tag off, and the system quite correctly thought you were tagging off at Westmorland and did so

    The 90 second lock out for Luas then triggers (you could use the card on a bus or train immediately).


  • #43
    Dardania
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭Dardania


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    It does say 'Just Validated'

    The reason being is to avoid multiple accidental tag on/off events if you held the card on the reader and in the bus case it is to stop the card being passed back to be reused again.

    Rules are tag on and tag off, you didn't tag off, and the system quite correctly thought you were tagging off at Westmorland and did so

    The 90 second lock out for Luas then triggers (you could use the card on a bus or train immediately).
    This technically makes sense, given the poor IT connectivity of the bus readers.
    Wouldn't it make it easier to understand if the user was told at the Luas reader when they tag off that "If you wish to tag-on again, wait 90 seconds and try again"?


  • #44
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,413 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    While ignorance is not a defense in the eyes of the law there is an onus on businesses to assist in preventing situations arising. I think if he doesn't pay the fine that this would be struck out in court.










    Not everybody Google's things. You do realise that?


  • #45
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    devnull wrote: »
    First of all the message is not 'invalid' it is the rather more informative 'just validated' which appears on the screen which is made more clearer that it is not a tag on by emitting an error sound as well as a red light.

    I'm not quite sure why you tagged off after getting of one tram and switching to another because the time was increased following the open of the Green Line extension to Broombridge for a complete journey so it is more than enough to not be timed out.

    I am pretty sure it said "INVALID" something or something "INVALID"


  • #46
    verycool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭verycool


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    I am pretty sure it said "INVALID" something or something "INVALID"


    This is crucial information. Why didn't you read the display to note what it said exactly?


    As I mentioned before... Either pay the fine or contest it with the link I gave earlier. I think we're going in circles here.


  • #47
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 11,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Dardania wrote: »
    T"If you wish to tag-on again, wait 90 seconds and try again"?

    That's about 4 times longer message than you could possibly fit on the validator screen.
    I am pretty sure it said "INVALID" something or something "INVALID"

    It's been just validated for ages, and was until last week, maybe it's different on the newer validators though.


  • #48
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    devnull wrote: »
    That's about 4 times longer message than you could possibly fit on the validator screen.

    "WAIT 90 SECS"
    should have been clear enough

    We don't need an article to understand we should wait 90 seconds.


  • #49
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    verycool wrote: »
    This is crucial information. Why didn't you read the display to note what it said exactly?


    As I mentioned before... Either pay the fine or contest it with the link I gave earlier. I think we're going in circles here.

    Because when I was tapping at the time I wasn't fined and you don't tap that on that machine every time thinking it is going to provide you with a crucial information... The message only appears for couple of seconds.


  • #50
    verycool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭verycool


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    "WAIT 90 SECS"
    should have been clear enough

    We don't need an article to understand we should wait 90 seconds.
    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    Because when I was tapping at the time I wasn't fined and you don't tap that on that machine every time thinking it is going to provide you with a crucial information... The message only appears for couple of seconds.


    Again, what do you want from randomers on the internet? We're not some secret club of super sleuths that will get you out of this by giving you a definitive answer you can give in court.


    You're arguing with the wrong people.



    As mentioned, two options.


  • #51
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    verycool wrote: »
    Again, what do you want from randomers on the internet? We're not some secret club of super sleuths that will get you out of this by giving you a definitive answer you can give in court.


    You're arguing with the wrong people.

    As mentioned, two options.

    I am working on those options right now but here is a discussion going on to get ideas and differing opinions. There is nothing wrong with this. I am not expecting anyone here to make this fine go away, relax.


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  • #52
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    For people who care about public transport, this post is key...
    marvin80 wrote: »
    I had a similar situation - when you tag off you have to wait a few minutes before it will allow you to tag on again.
    I tagged off, dropped something off and then very shortly tagged on again but it didn't tag on again properly - but I wasn't aware of that.
    Plenty of credit on my Leapcard - always pay for my journeys etc..

    Got a fine on the Luas, appealed it and they sent me some bullsh*t email.

    Haven't bothered using the Luas since!!

    You see it over and over again -- Luas give very little leeway even for people who can prove that they have a history of paying or that they had paid and made a common mistake etc.

    Treating people who usually pay but make a mistake, or people who did pay and are still within the time like thieves.


  • #53
    marvin80
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    verycool wrote: »
    You've two options;

    1) pay the fine

    2) contest it here: https://payments.luas.ie/onlineexplanation.aspx (link to pdf form on that page too).

    Arguing this "90 second" rule with randomers on the internet will get you nowhere.

    Waste of time contesting it - they'll send back a generic email


  • #54
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    I am working on those options right now but here is a discussion going on to get ideas and differing opinions. There is nothing wrong with this. I am not expecting anyone here to make this fine go away, relax.

    Can you state why you didn't tag off when you got off the LUAS at SSG? That is possibly the most pertinent point.


  • #55
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    schemingbohemia wrote: »
    Can you state why you didn't tag off when you got off the LUAS at SSG? That is possibly the most pertinent point.

    Because 100s of people get off at Stephen's Green and lots of people queue to get in to the luas as well so when I am out of Luas I'd like to walk away as quickly as possible rather than trying to squeeze in between people to reach out to the leapcard machine like rest of the 95% passengers out there.


  • #56
    schemingbohemia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,606 ✭✭✭schemingbohemia


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    Because 100s of people get off at Stephen's Green and lots of people queue to get in to the luas as well so when I am out of Luas I'd like to walk away as quickly as possible rather than trying to squeeze in between people to reach out to the leapcard machine like rest of the 95% passengers out there.

    Well that doesn't help your case. Your Leap card will presumably show a number of automated tagging off as in you pay max fare all the time.

    What's so special about you that you don't need to follow the rules? Or are the rest of us just sheeple?


  • #57
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 53,862 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you don't like doing the very thing that would have prevented you being fined, and ended up making the mistake which has cost you.
    i don't get a sense of 'lesson learned' off you though.


  • #58
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    you don't like doing the very thing that would have prevented you being fined, and ended up making the mistake which has cost you.
    i don't get a sense of 'lesson learned' off you though.

    So do you expect 100s of people to queue and tap off when getting of Luas in front of 3-4 machines?


  • #59
    verycool
    Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭verycool


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    So do you expect 100s of people to queue and tap off when getting of Luas in front of 3-4 machines?


    Yes.


  • #60
    Seregwethrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 152 ✭✭Seregwethrin


    verycool wrote: »
    Yes.

    Go to Stephen's Green watch people getting off and let the reality bite you.

    That is an unrealistic expectation from passengers.


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  • #61
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,903 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Seregwethrin wrote: »
    Go to Stephen's Green watch people getting off and let the reality bite you.

    That is an unrealistic expectation from passengers.
    Going to the other platform is always a good option, I do the same at Heuston.


    OP I honestly think from what you have said on this thread you are wasting your time contesting fine, I would just pay it and move on I think.


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