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Tiered Football Championship Needed

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    #32
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    The top ten obviously :rolleyes: I presume it would be decided on league positions. Im not fussed what the criteria is. i think there would be little or no argument who the top 8/9 are anyway

    And it just so happens your county is in there yes?


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    #33
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Ya fair point but no matter what we do there will be mismatches at every level. As it is, the provincial finals are supposed to be showpieces and are anything but. I dont think you would have 40% of games too one sided. Possibly Dublin and Kerry on present form would hammer the lower teams but the likes of Mayo, Galway, Donegal etc probably would not

    If Mayo make the super 8's and get into Dublin's group and get absolutely hammered, will they be kicked into the losers league?


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    #34
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    A concession? Oh how gracious, you'll give one of the minnows the honour of playing on the same field as the big dogs but just to keep them happy for a few years.

    This shows your attitude. The rich teams are just inconvenienced by these other teams and want them gone.

    It's not going to happen.

    Yep thats it. Like any other sport you should play at a level that suits and if you're good enough you'll move up a grade. Oh i think it will happen but not for a few years yet unfortunately


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    #35
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    I was talking about the hurling and yes even if Mayo werent going to be in the A football id still be absolutely in favour



    For the last ****ing time i am not talking about such a cship as i have clearly said in many replies to you . i give up, you're either a wind up merchant or one dedicated troll. If you dont want to discuss the issue then fine but please stop throwing red herrings into the mix

    Maybe you'd change your tune if Mayo were kicked out.


    I've asked you before to explain the difference and you can't. Counties don't want this, they won't buy into it.


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    #36
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    If Mayo make the super 8's and get into Dublin's group and get absolutely hammered, will they be kicked into the losers league?

    If thats the system, that the worst team gets relegated, then yes of course. Why wouldnt i? If Mayo arent good enough to compete at the top level then we should be playing a lower level. Its really very simple.


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    #37
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Yep thats it. Like any other sport you should play at a level that suits and if you're good enough you'll move up a grade. Oh i think it will happen but not for a few years yet unfortunately

    Counties levels change all the time. If this losers league idea was introduced in the 70's there would have been no All Ireland's for Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Meath, Donegal in the past few decades.
    Fund counties, give them a fair chance to compete. This idea is designed to keep the rich counties sitting at the top table permanently.


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    #38
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Maybe you'd change your tune if Mayo were kicked out.


    I've asked you before to explain the difference and you can't. Counties don't want this, they won't buy into it.

    :confused:


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    #39
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Counties levels change all the time. If this losers league idea was introduced in the 70's there would have been no All Ireland's for Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Meath, Donegal in the past few decades.
    Fund counties, give them a fair chance to compete. This idea is designed to keep the rich counties sitting at the top table permanently.

    So counties levels change all the time.
    Thanks.


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    #40
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    If thats the system, that the worst team gets relegated, then yes of course. Why wouldnt i? If Mayo arent good enough to compete at the top level then we should be playing a lower level. Its really very simple.

    Because, as we've seen in hurling, the top teams don't get relegated. Special treatment is available for these. Gaelic football will be seriously damaged in the counties kicked out, it will kill it in many counties.


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    #41
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    :confused:

    Between this losers league and the one's tried in the past.


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    #42
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Counties levels change all the time. If this losers league idea was introduced in the 70's there would have been no All Ireland's for Armagh, Tyrone, Derry, Meath, Donegal in the past few decades.

    Thats ridiculous you dont know that. At the time of their AI wins they were all top teams so would have been in the top tier.
    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Fund counties, give them a fair chance to compete. This idea is designed to keep the rich counties sitting at the top table permanently.

    Once again your twisting things. Promotion and relegation would be an integral pat of any new structure.


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    #43
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Between this losers league and the one's tried in the past.

    Its not a losers league. If you cant see the difference in a tiered cship as exists at club level and the half arsed attempts at B cships in the past then im wasting my time with you. But one thing is correct, those previous B cships were actually losers competitions and seen as such and there was no real incentive to win them


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    #44
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Thats ridiculous you dont know that. At the time of their AI wins they were all top teams so would have been in the top tier.



    Once again your twisting things. Promotion and relegation would be an integral pat of any new structure.

    The game doesn't develop in counties when they're at a lower level. Their standards will match what their competitors are. We see it in hurling.

    Promotion and relegation is a part of league football. In the championship, everyone competes.


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    #45
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Because, as we've seen in hurling, the top teams don't get relegated. Special treatment is available for these. Gaelic football will be seriously damaged in the counties kicked out, it will kill it in many counties.

    Of course they dont, thats why the are top teams. But if they start to fall off then eventually they will be. And what about Antrim and Laois as you alluded to in another thread.


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    #46
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    The game doesn't develop in counties when they're at a lower level. Their standards will match what their competitors are. We see it in hurling.

    Promotion and relegation is a part of league football. In the championship, everyone competes.
    And what good has it done for most counties? Everyone takes part in the championship as it stands but for lots of counties theyre just prolonging the wait to be knocked out. At least in a tiered competition they would have much better opportunities to play sides at their own level/find similar ability sides


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    #47
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    No, I believe they will be split in the near future.


    Give us a clue:5, 10, 15, 20 years.


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    #48
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    The game doesn't develop in counties when they're at a lower level. Their standards will match what their competitors are. We see it in hurling.

    Not necessarily, the better teams will move to a higher level where they will play the bigger teams on a regular basis instead of the one off hammerings they can olok forward to presently.
    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Promotion and relegation is a part of league football. In the championship, everyone competes.

    its also part of club championships. Anyway with a tiered cship i would be in favour of scrapping the league or reducing the number of games in it


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    #49
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Its not a losers league. If you cant see the difference in a tiered cship as exists at club level and the half arsed attempts at B cships in the past then im wasting my time with you. But one thing is correct, those previous B cships were actually losers competitions and seen as such and there was no real incentive to win them

    This idea is worse than those previous b championships! It'll make the gaps permanent. What has to be realised is that the game was fine up to just over a decade ago, there was a wide number of counties competing, all provincial championships had a good spread of winners (except Munster).
    The Leinster championship was destroyed by the financial doping of Dublin and to try to keep up many counties have had to invest big sums in recent years. That's how Mayo are hanging on, how Donegal won an All Ireland and how Kerry have improved.
    It's the financial situation that's causing the big gaps. Why should the weaker counties be punished because others have access to major funding? This is an amateur sport. The only fair system is to fund everyone equally.


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    #50
    DONTMATTER
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    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Of course they dont, thats why the are top teams. But if they start to fall off then eventually they will be. And what about Antrim and Laois as you alluded to in another thread.

    I'm talking about when special dispensation was made for the top counties when they were actually relegated, the rules were changed!


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    #51
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    And what good has it done for most counties? Everyone takes part in the championship as it stands but for lots of counties theyre just prolonging the wait to be knocked out. At least in a tiered competition they would have much better opportunities to play sides at their own level/find similar ability sides

    As I said, that's not the way it was. Many teams who are in line to get booted out of the championship have won and come close to winning major titles within the past decade even.
    Make all these counties stronger by funding them. Don't punish them because they haven't got the riches others have.


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    #52
    DONTMATTER
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    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Give us a clue:5, 10, 15, 20 years.

    We'll see.


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    #53
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Not necessarily, the better teams will move to a higher level where they will play the bigger teams on a regular basis instead of the one off hammerings they can olok forward to presently.



    its also part of club championships. Anyway with a tiered cship i would be in favour of scrapping the league or reducing the number of games in it

    You can't ignore the hurling championship. This was tried and it has failed! We'll see the results when the Joe McDonagh teams play against the top tier.

    So you want to scrap the league and boot teams out of the championship? It's a non runner.


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    #54
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    This isnt a punishement. Tiers work in virtually every sport going. Make counties stronger by funding them from where exactly? Where do you find all this extra money that will magically turn counties into all ireland challengers. If it was that easy then .....

    Take it off the counties who already have huge resources. Dublin for example.

    I've already shown that there's a template, Dublin are competitive at the top level. They've won a National league and a Leinster championship. Funding works, a tiered championship doesn't. Hurling proves it.


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    #55
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭cms88


    This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

    Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.


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    #56
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    cms88 wrote: »
    This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

    Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

    Read the op. We are talking about a tiered cship not an open draw chsip league type system.


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    #57
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    cms88 wrote: »
    This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

    Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

    How many Joe McDonagh games have you seen on The Sunday Game?


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    #58
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭cms88


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Read the op. We are talking about a tiered cship not an open draw chsip league type system.

    I wrote it


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    #59
    cms88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭cms88


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    How many Joe McDonagh games have you seen on The Sunday Game?

    None what's your point? The "weaker" counties have never got coverage. Why are people only worried about it now?


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    #60
    DONTMATTER
    Site Banned Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭DONTMATTER


    cms88 wrote: »
    None what's your point? The "weaker" counties have never got coverage. Why are people only worried about it now?

    Because it's showing that this is all a big lie. The advocates for this are all saying it would be a well promoted competition. We all know that's not true. These teams will be ignored just like the Joe McDonagh cup teams.

    And you're forgetting that teams like Fermanagh and Laois are likely to be thrown into this. They were both on TV in provincial finals this weekend. It's not just Wicklow and Leitrim who are getting the boot, it's a long list of teams.


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    #61
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    cms88 wrote: »
    This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

    Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

    There’s more to “coverage” than live TV.....which by the way counties like Laois, Longford, Tipperary, Fermanagh, Roscommon etc have had in the last couple of weeks alone. On the night of the Champions League Final, the Laois v Westmeath Leinster quarter final was the second biggest sports story on internet, tv and radio. When we played hurling matches in Joe McDonagh, I literally struggled to find anything. Our Leinster semi final received extensive hype, mostly of the “Carlow Rising” sort. But there’s no “Carlow Rising” hashtag hype about their hurling team who are actually in the Joe McDonagh final! Go figure!


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