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Tiered Football Championship Needed

  • 25-06-2018 11:57am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,217 ✭✭✭ cms88


    I know this has been done a lot but imo this years Championship is showing up the need for a tiered championship. This weekend we've seen more non events in games involving teams totally out of their depth who claim they won't be motivated to play in a B championship.

    Offaly v Clare Armagh v Sligo and Kildare v Longford were just three good competitive games this weekend. Why was that? Because they're all at a similar level and can be competitive against each other.

    We were told Fermanagh and Laois getting to Ulster and Leinster finals and Carlows "rising" are reasons why a second tier is a bad idea. Yet all three were hammered out the gate.

    Players from the smaller counties don't want this, and it has been resurrected umpteen times. But they need to accept reality though, that they're going nowhere with the current system


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭ grbear


    If the GAA ever want to introduce a tiered football championship then they need to sort out how they divide up broadcast rights to try and ensure that the smaller teams will still get decent exposure.

    -A more balanced championship structure so we don't end up with farces like we have seen over the last few weekends where we had one football match last week and eleven this weekend.

    -Get some form of "Saturday Game" broadcast on RTE/TV3 next year. The lip service that gets paid to some of the lower profile matches benefits no one.

    -Get the Joe McDonagh championship broadcast on TG4.

    -Demand better from RTE when it comes to their online updates covering smaller teams/everyone apart from Kerry,Mayo and Dublin. I mentioned it at the time but in the recent Louth-London game there was 1-6 scored and narry a mention of it on the RTE live updates. Even yesterday the RTE Radio 1 account tweeted almost 40 times with updates about the Ulster and Leinster Finals. The Offaly-Clare qualifier wasn't mentioned at all. The Ulster final was only mentioned in one tweet as well, every other tweet was about Laois-Dublin. They didn't even tweet out the result from Clones. Brolly warning Dublin that Kerry were coming for them was given a more prominent slot on the RTE website than the match report of the Ulster final. If you are an administrator of a smaller county worried that a tiered championship would hurt your teams media exposure then RTEs online coverage confirms all your worst fears.


  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭ MattressRick


    cms88 wrote: »
    I know this has been done a lot but imo this years Championship is showing up the need for a tiered championship. This weekend we've seen more non events in games involving teams totally out of their depth who claim they won't be motivated to play in a B championship.

    Offaly v Clare Armagh v Sligo and Kildare v Longford were just three good competitive games this weekend. Why was that? Because they're all at a similar level and can be competitive against each other.

    We were told Fermanagh and Laois getting to Ulster and Leinster finals and Carlows "rising" are reasons why a second tier is a bad idea. Yet all three were hammered out the gate.

    Players from the smaller counties don't want this, and it has been resurrected umpteen times. But they need to accept reality though, that they're going nowhere with the current system

    True. In the hurling though it hasn't brought any new county through. At least not a county that'll win a provincial championship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭ jon1981


    The super 8s is just going to create a bigger divide. Most counties will never get near it, even some of the counties that might stretch to getting there after playing through the qualifiers might struggle with the additional 2 games in the quarter final round.

    Forming a second tier seems like the only option.

    As for the provincials ... Leinster and Munster are dead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,374 Warper


    True. In the hurling though it hasn't brought any new county through. At least not a county that'll win a provincial championship.

    The current hurling championship is terrific though. The games are all competitive and are enjoyable to watch. There is an opportunity for a new team every year via promotion/relegation which is perfect. Teams are playing teams of a similar standard unlike the farce that is the football championship.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,310 ✭✭✭ jon1981


    Warper wrote: »
    The current hurling championship is terrific though. The games are all competitive and are enjoyable to watch. There is an opportunity for a new team every year via promotion/relegation which is perfect. Teams are playing teams of a similar standard unlike the farce that is the football championship.


    How many teams are really competing though?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ Laois_Man


    As a fan who was on the receiving end of one of those hammerings this weekend, I have no interest in a B championship. I will not attend. Laois won the all-ireland B in 1993 and nobody gave a rats arse, including myself, and nobody will in 2019 either. I have gotten more of a buzz out of getting to the Leinster Final (and depending on the draw, still possibly the super-8's) than I would out of even winning an All-Ireland B championship and it feels like progress.

    We already have tiers.....it's called the league!

    As for all the praise about the hurling championship. They have just played 22 games and at the end of it all have eliminated only 4 counties....and another 2 about to enter it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    As a fan who was on the receiving end of one of those hammerings this weekend, I have no interest in a B championship. I will not attend. Laois won the all-ireland B in 1993 and nobody gave a rats arse, including myself, and nobody will in 2019 either. I have gotten more of a buzz out of getting to the Leinster Final (and depending on the draw, still possibly the super-8's) than I would out of even winning an All-Ireland B championship and it feels like progress.

    We already have tiers.....it's called the league!

    As for all the praise about the hurling championship. They have just played 22 games and at the end of it all have eliminated only 4 counties....and another 2 about to enter it.

    So what? There have been some great games. Thats what we want, the top teams playing each other on a regular basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭ Felexicon


    I don't like the idea of tiered championships to be honest but I can see the need for drastic change after another weekend of complete wash outs.

    I'd like to see some form of Champions League structure being brought in to guarantee teams a certain amount of games each summer.

    I mean, taking Meath for example. Why would any of those lads be arsed slogging away in the depths of winter only to be knocked out at the start of June?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,374 Warper


    jon1981 wrote: »
    How many teams are really competing though?

    Really have a chance are all the Munster teams plus KK, Galway and even Wexford so realistically 8 teams start off the year that think they could win the AI.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    In the event of a tiered cship you could run it off earlier and have a spot in the last 8 for the winners of any B Cship. Personally im totally in favour of a 2 or 3 tier cship with promotion and relegation but scrapping the provincials is the big obstacle.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ Laois_Man


    So what? There have been some great games. Thats what we want, the top teams playing each other on a regular basis.

    You'll say that now because it's a novelty. But in year 3 and 4 and beyond, what's the intensity/interest/attendance going to be like in early summer when it doesn't really make that much difference whether you win 2 games or 4, except in the context of winning the provincial championship which these teams don't genuinely care too much about anymore anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    You'll say that now because it's a novelty. But in year 3 and 4 and beyond, what's the intensity/interest/attendance going to be like in early summer when it doesn't really make that much difference whether you win 2 games or 4, except in the context of winning the provincial championship which these teams don't genuinely care too much about anymore anyway.

    Maybe, we shall see. I think it was worth a shot anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    It's not worth a shot, this will end any chance of some counties ever becoming competitive. I've already shown that it hasn't worked in hurling. What works is funding teams. All that has to be done is a replica of the Dublin system. You have a load of paid development officers but more importantly you have paid strategic officers overseeing it all.
    They will have targets and goals to reach. The money won't be given to count boards because the majority of them are useless. The template is there.

    You cant compare hurling to football, the gaps in hurling are absolutely enormous. The tiered hurling cships were introduced to allow teams to compete in meaningful competitions. Do you seriously want all hurling teams to compete on an even level? AS for development officers etc they would have to work in conjucntion with co boards. Saying the majority of them are useless is populist bull****,its a daft generalisation


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Then explain how Dublin are competitive at the top level? The were at the same level as Antrim and Laois, now look at them. Funding works.

    Taking the risk of this failing because of inept county boards is essential. It's what was done in Dublin. Yes they have some part to play but let them concentrate on getting the local club scene correct. Many county boards are completely useless, it's a fact.

    I wont argue about the funding. That had nothing to do with my point

    You cant say something is a fact based on nothing in particular, it's an opinion on your part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    Funding has shown that teams can catch up.

    It's not a perfect comparison but we can see that a tiered competition hasn't worked in hurling. That's if the aim is for it to work? Do you care if these counties never recover?

    I disagree, i think its been a great success.
    DONTMATTER wrote: »
    I'll call it what I like. This kicking teams out of the championship is mostly coming from people from the rich counties. The losers league won't be accepted

    Ok then call it what you like as you are deliberately ignoring what a restructure would entail. No one is being kicked out of the cship, and whatever system is introduced it could be tweaked to allow the winners of the B or whatever you call it to enter the A at the QF stage or something like that. Also promotion and relegation would mean the lesser teams have real goal to aim at. How come no other major team sport in the world structures their main cship the way we do in the GAA? Im open to correction in this obviously.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I would actually agree with that but thought it might be a concession that needs to be made, initially anyway


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ Laois_Man


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    Who are the 10 "senior" counties?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,661 ✭✭✭✭ OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Who are the 10 "senior" counties?

    The top ten obviously :rolleyes: I presume it would be decided on league positions. Im not fussed what the criteria is. i think there would be little or no argument who the top 8/9 are anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    But given the lopsided nature of the cship that would prove very controversial, eg would a win in the Leinster chsip be weighted the same as a win in Ulster etc? Very difficult to come up with a fair formula imo


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭ Laois_Man


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    But once you go beyond 6 counties, the gap in standard has appeared. Even those 6 will rarely be having a form year on the same years. It's not solving the initial problem whatsoever if you're going to have at least 40% of the games as one sided as the 3 providential finals this weekend were! In fact, it's making it worse!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,525 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    I think what’s needed is a complete rework of how everything is set up, maybe a draw based on league position round 1 div4 teams v div3, round 2 winners round 1v div2 round 3 round 2 winners v div1 then into super 8s. Dump the provincials as not fit for purpose or play them before the league as a season opener.
    This would make the league more competitive and give poorer counties a chance against other weak counties with progressively harder games. It would also cut back the amount of games meaning more time for club championships.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    But once you go beyond 6 counties, the gap in standard has appeared. Even those 6 will rarely be having a form year on the same years. It's not solving the initial problem whatsoever if you're going to have at least 40% of the games as one sided as the 3 providential finals this weekend were! In fact, it's making it worse!

    Ya fair point but no matter what we do there will be mismatches at every level. As it is, the provincial finals are supposed to be showpieces and are anything but. I dont think you would have 40% of games too one sided. Possibly Dublin and Kerry on present form would hammer the lower teams but the likes of Mayo, Galway, Donegal etc probably would not


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ I says


    To make it a It more competitive why not run the format as the four divisions are now with promotion/relegation from each division.
    The winners and runners up in div 1 go straight into all Ireland semi finals.
    The winners and runners up in div 2 go into quarter finals.
    The winners of div 3 play runners up of div 4,and the runners up of div 3 play winners of div 4 in preliminary quarter finals.
    The winners of the preliminary q/finals play the div 2 teams in proper q/finals with winners into all Ireland semis to play div 1 teams.
    I realize that div3/4 teams would have extra games played to get to semi final but maybe start those leagues earlier than div1/2 to give players proper rest between games.
    Scrap all and every other competions and run the championship from mid April to last week of August or 1st week September.
    All teams get seven games not sure of home and away format maybe double headers from different leagues on nuetral grounds.
    My tuppence worth.


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,413 DONTMATTER


    I disagree, i think its been a great success.



    Ok then call it what you like as you are deliberately ignoring what a restructure would entail. No one is being kicked out of the cship, and whatever system is introduced it could be tweaked to allow the winners of the B or whatever you call it to enter the A at the QF stage or something like that. Also promotion and relegation would mean the lesser teams have real goal to aim at. How come no other major team sport in the world structures their main cship the way we do in the GAA? Im open to correction in this obviously.

    You can only see it as a success if you don't care that the counties in the lower tiers never compete at the top level again. Do you not care? If your county wasn't guaranteed to be in the A championship would you be in favour?

    It doesn't matter what any other sport does or doesn't do. Counties want to compete at the top level. It's what counts. There's been B championships in the past and it didn't matter a jot. Players won't sign up for this, supporters won't sign up for this. It's not wanted, it's mostly the rich counties endorsing this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,749 ✭✭✭ Coillte_Bhoy


    I says wrote: »
    To make it a It more competitive why not run the format as the four divisions are now with promotion/relegation from each division.
    The winners and runners up in div 1 go straight into all Ireland semi finals.
    The winners and runners up in div 2 go into quarter finals.
    The winners of div 3 play runners up of div 4,and the runners up of div 3 play winners of div 4 in preliminary quarter finals.
    The winners of the preliminary q/finals play the div 2 teams in proper q/finals with winners into all Ireland semis to play div 1 teams.
    I realize that div3/4 teams would have extra games played to get to semi final but maybe start those leagues earlier than div1/2 to give players proper rest between games.
    Scrap all and every other competions and run the championship from mid April to last week of August or 1st week September.
    All teams get seven games not sure of home and away format maybe double headers from different leagues on nuetral grounds.
    My tuppence worth.

    So bascially 6 of the top 8 teams in the country are out of the cship after the league stage? Non runner


  • Site Banned Posts: 1,413 DONTMATTER


    I would actually agree with that but thought it might be a concession that needs to be made, initially anyway

    A concession? Oh how gracious, you'll give one of the minnows the honour of playing on the same field as the big dogs but just to keep them happy for a few years.

    This shows your attitude. The rich teams are just inconvenienced by these other teams and want them gone.

    It's not going to happen.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,578 ✭✭✭ I says


    So bascially 6 of the top 8 teams in the country are out of the cship after the league stage? Non runner

    Dog eat dog each team has seven games to qualify for AI semis on the league format.


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