Could you see a future government apologising for liberalisation?

freshpopcorn · 23-06-2018 10:21PM #1

At the moment and over the past few years we've seen the government apologising for the wrong doings of the past. IE when homosexuality used be criminalised. (I'm not refereeing to abuse within schools/etc.)
So, in the past 25 years or we've seen homosexuality decriminalised, divorce being introduced, Same-Sex marriage and repealing the eighth amendment.
Going by posts in After Hours most people here favored these things here. So, we all backed these things because we thought it was the right thing to do.
However I've spoken to people who in the 70/80's supported how the country was run because they also believed it was the right thing to do.(Some have changed their opinions and others haven't).
So, does anybody think that in the future we might end up more conservative again? or that a future government might have to apologise for our generation?
Probably not in my opinion.

Taytoland · 23-06-2018 10:28PM

You are a meek people, so probably not. Although hopefully the conservative movement rises once again. Best chance would be the influx of more Islam on society, so the focus can switch.

strandroad · 23-06-2018 10:32PM

I certainly hope that Ireland won't start jailing gays, banning divorce, locking up girls and women etc again. So hopefully not.

freshpopcorn · 23-06-2018 10:34PM

strandroad wrote: »

I certainly hope that Ireland won't start jailing gays,

How about just Darren Kennedy and James Kavanagh?

TheValeyard · 23-06-2018 10:37PM

Swings and roundabouts. Societies can easily change given the right set of conditions.

Under His Eye

One eyed Jack · 23-06-2018 10:53PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So, does anybody think that in the future we might end up more conservative again? or that a future government might have to apologise for our generation?
Probably not in my opinion.

I'd say we will, because right now, we're still a fairly homogenous society that's culturally about 20 odd years behind both of our major cultural influences - America to the left, and Europe to the right.

Both those mainlands have one thing in common that Irish society really doesn't to any great degree - multiculturalism.

Leo is already on the case

Can't see him making any apologies for it though :pac:

Atlantic Dawn · 23-06-2018 10:58PM

If they start feckin around with common sense like seperate Male and Female toilets and bringing in single sex or a 3rd or 4th option they will need to apologise for fecking up mens lives when they need to go for a quick trip to the jacks to find it has been turned in to a glorified fashion show.

Wibbs · 23-06-2018 11:04PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts. Societies can easily change given the right set of conditions.

Very much so. There is a tendency for every society to believe that "now" is better than "then". Though it can go the other way too, usually with the old reversing that belief. Both see change, but can't quite imagine change going against them. There are quite the number of examples of societies that were more liberal and then became more hardcore, even totalitarian and often remarkably quickly. The Mob™ tend to pendulum and if the Money™ follows then that's the society you get.

The other aspect is people tend to forget that they're a product of their current environment. If Boards.ie was running in 1948 Ireland, the religious forum would be the Catholic forum, vanishingly few of the same people today trumpeting their "religion is BS" line would be doing so back then and criticism of the Church if it came along would be either very tame or a banable offence in the charter. Those who sport rainbow avatars campaigning for abortion and Gay rights would almost certainly be sporting Padre Pio avatars and campaigning against such things. Actual rebels are always a minority against the consensus. The small cadre of other users you disagree with and may consider to be trolls and muppets and whateverists are the "rebels" of today.

Under His Eye

Outlaw Pete · 23-06-2018 11:08PM

Well, if you're reading this thread in the future Mr/Ms/Hen Taoiseach: apology not accepted!!

Arghus · 23-06-2018 11:10PM

Well if it's the type of potential government of the future that will roll back on the liberalisation of today, then they'll be the not apologising type.

Sweetemotion · 23-06-2018 11:14PM

strandroad wrote: »

I certainly hope that Ireland won't start jailing gays, banning divorce, locking up girls and women etc again. So hopefully not.

All of that would have happened without liberalisation.

I think he meant, Jailing people because the woman must alway be believed.

Naming the accused but not the accuser, destroying lives on a whim.

Being labeled a Nazi, just because you hold a different view.

Made to feel embarrassed and ashamed for simply being born a cis white male.

Told your masculine nature is toxic.

Sweetemotion · 23-06-2018 11:20PM

Radical feminist women having baby boys is going to be a big one.

Yer Da sells Avon · 23-06-2018 11:23PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

So, in the past 25 years or we've seen homosexuality decriminalised, divorce being introduced, Same-Sex marriage and repealing the eighth amendment.

I can't imagine any future government having any reason to apologise for any of those things because there has to be a perceived victim for an apology to be necessary. The legalisation of homosexuality, divorce, same sex marriage and (the forthcoming legalisation of) abortion didn't negatively impact upon - or take rights away from - any person.

Although if it somehow turns out that all the anti-immigration whingebags are right and teh Muslamics take over, then I suppose all bets are off (not least because gambling is forbidden).

oneilla · 23-06-2018 11:24PM

freshpopcorn wrote: »

At the moment and over the past few years we've seen the government apologising for the wrong doings of the past. IE when homosexuality used be criminalised. (I'm not refereeing to abuse within schools/etc.)
So, in the past 25 years or we've seen homosexuality decriminalised, divorce being introduced, Same-Sex marriage and repealing the eighth amendment.
Going by posts in After Hours most people here favored these things here. So, we all backed these things because we thought it was the right thing to do.
However I've spoken to people who in the 70/80's supported how the country was run because they also believed it was the right thing to do.(Some have changed their opinions and others haven't).
So, does anybody think that in the future we might end up more conservative again? or that a future government might have to apologise for our generation?
Probably not in my opinion.

Going by threads started here, quite a many poster dislikes Muslims, travellers, gays, trans people, feminists, anyone and everyone in receipt of social welfare and so and so forth.

Maybe there'll be a government one day made up of After Hours posters which will apologise and bring Ireland back to the 19th century.

P.S divorce is still quite restrictive requiring a 4 year separation.

Wibbs · 23-06-2018 11:34PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Although if it somehow turns out that all the anti-immigration whingebags are right and teh Muslamics take over, then I suppose all bets are off (not least because gambling is forbidden).

Or that they don't do loans with interest. Usury. Mortal sin, haraam, piss off banks. The Money™ really don't like that shit. One might muse that this is one of the background reasons why "Muslims get out" is a thing?

Wibbs · 23-06-2018 11:39PM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I can't imagine any future government having any reason to apologise for any of those things because there has to be a perceived victim for an apology to be necessary. The legalisation of homosexuality, divorce, same sex marriage and (the forthcoming legalisation of) abortion didn't negatively impact upon - or take rights away from - any person.

True, but we live in a culture where every demographic is hunting for and usually getting "victim" status. We have become a fractured society of ever increasing victimhood looking for a victimiser. When even middle class heterosexual white men are in the running for same then one has to ask questions of where this is going.

Yer Da sells Avon · 24-06-2018 12:51AM

Wibbs wrote: »

When even middle class heterosexual white men are in the running for same then one has to ask questions of where this is going.

As a middle-class, heterosexual, white, cis man, I can't think of any non-spurious reasons to consider myself a victim of discrimination.

24-06-2018 12:53AM

Absolutely not. All the bad things happened in the past because they were all backward way back then with false certainties.

With all our true certainties about life, we're incomparably more enlightened and people in the future will definitely not look back at our economic liberalisation as a sign of an environment-polluting backward people with a crazily fundamentalist, all-pervasive consumerism who are quite happy to reduce workers' rights and conditions of employment while allowing the richest in society to avoid paying tax and for inequality to grow to levels unseen since before the Welfare State was created in the late 1940s.

Bad things = past. Let's keep the outrage directed there and away from what's going on today, thank you very much.

suicide_circus · 24-06-2018 12:57AM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

As a middle-class, heterosexual, white, cis man, I can't think of any non-spurious reasons to consider myself a victim of discrimination.

How meekly you wear your chains..

Irish Guitarist · 24-06-2018 01:39AM

I don't know about Ireland but I can see it happening in America. I can envision a lot of 'transgender' children growing up and realising that just because they went through a phase of liking the colour pink or playing with dolls when they were six years old doesn't mean they were transgender. They'll resent their parents for going way over the top with their right on views and telling them they were something they weren't. More so they'll resent the medical profession that misdiagnosed them and prescribed hormone changing drugs. In maybe ten or fifteen years time when these kids are teenagers or young adults I can see them demanding an apology from the medical profession and the government for not putting a stop to this.

24-06-2018 01:59AM

Is meek the new right buzzword?

touts · 24-06-2018 02:09AM

I don't think there will ever be a rowing back on the policies you mentioned let alone an apology nor should there be. We have reached a point where everyone accepts that people have a right to equality and happiness.

However I do believe there will be a rowing back on liberal ideas in relation to policies that have created things like a justice industry biased in favour of the criminal or welfare as a lifestype choice. A swing to the right is rapidly approaching on those sort of areas. For example I could well see a future government apologising to the victims of crime for the liberal system that prioritised the perceived rights of violent repeat offenders over the protection of their victims. Likewise I could see future political parties campaigning on a promise to prioritise services for those who work and contribute to society ahead of those who choose welfare and living off the society. In that case it probably won't be a full apology but it'll be just as good to hard pressed taxpayers.

Yer Da sells Avon · 24-06-2018 02:28AM

riffmongous wrote: »

Is meek the new right buzzword?

Hope so.

#blessed

RobertKK · 24-06-2018 04:43AM

A very conservative past has been replaced with a very liberal present, The thing is to find the right balance, the problem for either side is when it swings too much in either direction it leads to a push back and it can go from one extreme to the other.
If Ireland takes a very liberal policy on immigration from countries that don't share our European and western culture, it will lead to push back. It will lead to problems and it will lead to apologies. Angela Merkel sort of apologised for her very liberal open door immigration policy of 2015, which backfired spectacularly, it affected her legacy and has led to the rise of the far right.
People who keep pushing for more liberalism and it was needed in certain areas, will be seen in the future to have made similar mistakes as the people who pushed for more conservatism in the past when Ireland was already conservative, it will just end up backfiring and mistakes will be made, this will lead to apologies in time.
It is all about getting the right balance.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-06-2018 04:47AM

Angela loves the extra staff to bang out the BMW's.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 24-06-2018 05:53AM

There might be something for traditionalism and following what served our people well for centuries.

I find myself being driven to the right these days with the anti science regressive leftist movement.

Very creepy and almost sinIster vibe to their speil.

Cabaal · 24-06-2018 06:09AM

Taytoland wrote: »

You are a meek people, so probably not. Although hopefully the conservative movement rises once again. Best chance would be the influx of more Islam on society, so the focus can switch.

So bring us back to the good old 1950s eh?
is it like a magically time in your head?

super_furry · 24-06-2018 08:14AM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Made to feel embarrassed and ashamed for simply being born a cis white male.

Told your masculine nature is toxic.

Outside of interernet hyperbole, where does this happen? I’ve never met anyone who would hold such views, don’t know anyone in my circle who gets so wrapped up in identity politics on either scale and certainly have never been “Made to feel embarrassed and ashamed for simply being born a cis white male”.

Extreme and exaggerated online views are not reflective of wider Irish society.

Wibbs · 24-06-2018 11:25AM

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

As a middle-class, heterosexual, white, cis man, I can't think of any non-spurious reasons to consider myself a victim of discrimination.

I might suggest that your use of the term CIS suggests you wouldn't even if it were happening. It suggests your down with the identity politic and that politic can be quite picky as far as which group it labels oppressed and groups outside that circle can't possibly be discriminated against. Can women be sexist? Can non Whites be racist? If you had a pause before coming up with an answer in your head, that's an answer in of itself.

Thought experiment: your girlfriend/wife is physically abusive towards you. Who do you call? Who do you turn to? Where do you go? If you have kids and the relationship breaks down who will get near automatic custody, even if she's a proven addict/nutbag? Who gets to stay in your previously shared property?

Sweetemotion · 24-06-2018 11:54AM

super_furry wrote: »

Outside of interernet hyperbole, where does this happen? I’ve never met anyone who would hold such views, don’t know anyone in my circle who gets so wrapped up in identity politics on either scale and certainly have never been “Made to feel embarrassed and ashamed for simply being born a cis white male”.

Extreme and exaggerated online views are not reflective of wider Irish society.

It may just be internet hyperbole but it's slowly creeping into society.

Consent classes because we must our boys not to rape. How fecking patronising is that.

Public figures like blind boy on our national broadcaster saying all males mental health problems can simply be solved by feminism.

Raising kids as gender neutral in most cases means raising the boys to be more feminine.

Giving young boys who have played with a barbie doll and wore a dress once hormone pills.

Being paranoid to pick up your children from school in case you are viewed as some sort of sexual predator.

nthclare · 24-06-2018 12:08PM

Ireland and it's traditions are being trampled on by snowflakes and lefties...

People being brainwashed into accepting a more soft view on what we once were.

In some ways when certain natural instincts wasn't accepted to our society like sex before marriage, homosexuality, swinging, sleeping around etc....

For some reason I'd enjoy those things more if it was frowned upon and considered naughty and dirty.

Nothing more pleasurable and naughty than going against the system.....as long as it's between two consenting adult's...

When is it all going to stop, chaos is natural in the universe.......so chaos now and again in society ain't bad really....

Later on now today I'll have some kinky fun with my girlfriend somewhere outdoors.

She'll wear a nice skimpy summer dress and no knickers...we'll slip over the dunes, find long grass and go at it like rabbits.....

Is that acceptable ?

Could you see a future government apologising for liberalisation?

Could you see a future government apologising for liberalisation? 27 votes

Comments