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Feeling bad about leaving work on time

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  • 20-06-2018 5:36pm
    #1
    White_hills
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭


    Hello!

    I've worked for a large corporate for a good few years now, the culture had always been that you leave at the time you're meant to leave at.

    Recently I've joined a team with lots of new starts who never leave on time, this is problematic as they expect me to be available very late in the day and I'm finding this highly frustrating as the work life balance is one of the main reason I continue to work there.

    I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?


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    #2
    vectorvictor
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭vectorvictor


    White_hills wrote: »
    I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?

    Flip it around - it could make you look good for being on top of your workload and them look bad because they are unable to perform their duties in a normal work day?

    That said, late finishes are common with new starts - alot of the time it's to give the impression of being dedicated and interested rather than an actual need.

    If a large element of your teams work is team work rather than individual duties I can understand your fear/guilt but really I would be looking at how to address the lack of efficiency. You may need to take a bit of a hit to support your new colleagues in their early days and to benefit the team as a whole but I wouldn't be facilitating it becoming the norm.

    A work day is long enough. After 7 or 8 hours on a job what is the quality of the output (mental and physical) going to be like?


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    #3
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job
    Go in on time go home on time.


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    #4
    White_hills
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭White_hills


    Thanks everyone! You're all making me feel better!


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    #5
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job

    Stupid comment is stupid. Just oozes naivety.

    Continue to leave on time if your work is completed. Of all people to not worry about it's new starts.


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    #6
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    Stupid comment is stupid. Just oozes naivety.

    Continue to leave on time if your work is completed. Of all people to not worry about it's new starts.

    Thanks for that, however it is my experience the employee who comes in on time goes home on time and is working, is far more valuable to me than someone who is constantly staying late to hit deadlines.
    You see a lot of people running round flapping and fooling and little to show for it.


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    #7
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    Thanks for that, however it is my experience the employee who comes in on time goes home on time and is working, is far more valuable to me than someone who is constantly staying late to hit deadlines.
    You see a lot of people running round flapping and fooling and little to show for it.

    Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless.

    A very poor manager would base somebodies value solely on time management. Here's something you may not realize, every job is different, every company is different and, believe it or not, every body is different. So to paint everybody with the same brush with an idiotic comment like "If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job" is just not very intelligent.


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    #8
    vectorvictor
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭vectorvictor


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless.

    A very poor manager would base somebodies value solely on time management. Here's something you may not realize, every job is different, every company is different and, believe it or not, every body is different. So to paint everybody with the same brush with an idiotic comment like "If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job" is just not very intelligent.

    Surely if contracted for 8 hours to perform certain tasks / responsibilities and that is achieved by some but not by others then there is a void somewhere in the productivity of those who cannot meet the same standards / output.


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    #9
    I Am The Law
    Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭I Am The Law


    Don't.


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    #10
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

    1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

    2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D


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    #11
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    grassroot1 wrote: »
    If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job
    Go in on time go home on time.
    It's a pretty silly statement tbh as there are far too many variables to take into account. The following is equally valid....

    If an employee can't get do their job in 8 hours then management are not up to the job.


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    #12
    yogi37
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭yogi37


    I have flexi time in my job and always finish work and head out the door after the required 7 hours. There are plenty of others who would easily do a 9 or 10 hour day and get nothing extra for it. As long as you are getting your work done and this is recognised by your manager then you are doing the right thing.

    Whenever I am in a performance review I also like to point out that I like to work efficiently and complete my workload in my 7 hours.


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    #13
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    peasant wrote: »
    There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

    1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

    2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

    I would disagree with this. It really depends on the job you are doing. I work 9-5 most days but I can be here later than I am supposed to due to a the job I am working on is running over. And this isn't down to anyone not getting done on time or someone trying to impress. Just down to the nature of the role and the industry.

    On the flipside not everyone who does 9-5 is doing their work efficiently either. There is a guy here who works 9-5 and does the bare minimum most days and nothing other days.


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    #14
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    In some careers there is a tacit assumption that you will work overtime, and it's reflected in a higher salary.

    Sometimes when promotions and bonuses are available, unpaid overtime is considered. No one will officially tell you this.

    It's up to you to decide if that's the case. It can take a while to figure out if it's worth it.


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    #15
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    I would disagree with this. It really depends on the job you are doing. I work 9-5 most days but I can be here later than I am supposed to due to a the job I am working on is running over. And this isn't down to anyone not getting done on time or someone trying to impress. Just down to the nature of the role and the industry.

    Unless you're being compensated for your extra time with either time off or extra money, you're being taken advantage of...simples :D

    Some people may be proud of the fact that they have a role or work in an industry where this is common practice and/or a badge of honour...I'm not one of them


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    #16
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    vectorvictor wrote: »
    Surely if contracted for 8 hours to perform certain tasks / responsibilities and that is achieved by some but not by others then there is a void somewhere in the productivity of those who cannot meet the same standards / output.

    If all the task are the same and the experience of the workers are all equal, then you can measure it, but it's pretty difficult. As stated before, and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.
    peasant wrote: »
    There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

    1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

    2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

    What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


    I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.


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    #17
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


    I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

    On the contrary...working for more than 30 years now in a good variety of roles and companies.

    The two reasons are what thirty years of experience boils down to in the end..no need to back it up

    EDIT
    of course there are jobs that do not happen 9-5, that involve travel, entertaining, etc (done those too)..but you should still either earn enough or get the odd hour/half day off without quibble to make the extra hours not feel like being taken advantage of


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    #18
    vectorvictor
    Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭vectorvictor


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.



    What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


    I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

    I think your attitude is uncalled for and perhaps you find it necessary to insult posters in the hope that it makes your questionable argument more powerful


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    #19
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    I like to have a long lunch that includes a half hour walk in the sunlight and dont mind having to patch this into the end of the day where otherwise I will just be sitting in bumper to bumper traffic in the dark. Most employers are flexible in relation to reasonable requests about trips to the bank once a month or bus timetables/commutes. It can lead to staff starting and ending their day at slightly different times. There will always be people who want to fine tune a project or use the rush hour time to poke at their emails or have quiet time in the office to surf privately or do their own thing. Dosnt mean they're inefficient or bad at their jobs or that their managers are monsters.

    I had staff that wanted to start early because it suited their drop off at the creche and finish a half hour early and this was fine, same with people who wanted to leave early (5!) on two days and work the time in another night to get to a night course - no problem there either. Peoples lives and commutes are complicated and we show our induviduality and humanity in the way we accept and facilitate this without damaging the work dynamic or team spirit. Everyone needs a break from the tyrany of work and confirmity so long as it is fair on all concerned and the work or project output dosnt suffer.

    If I could work on a Saturday and have Mondays off (again) I would - dead quiet office,total efficiency,no interruptions or annonying phone calls and loud talking -office bliss .


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    #20
    questionmark?
    Registered Users Posts: 3,070 ✭✭✭questionmark?


    OP if you get your work done on time and are contributing as you should then leave on time. IMO there are only three reasons for working late unless in rare exceptional circumstances.

    1) rubbish time management by the employee

    2) Management are rubbish at having the correct resources in place to do the work required.

    3) Trying to make an impression. No need to be there just want to be seen to be 'buying in' to the company (who would replace you in a flash)


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    #21
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    If all the task are the same and the experience of the workers are all equal, then you can measure it, but it's pretty difficult. As stated before, and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.



    What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


    I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.
    Very condescending thought you were very ironic.


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    #22
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    peasant wrote: »
    On the contrary...working for more than 30 years now in a good variety of roles and companies.

    The two reasons are what thirty years of experience boils down to in the end..no need to back it up

    EDIT
    of course there are jobs that do not happen 9-5, that involve travel, entertaining, etc (done those too)..but you should still either earn enough or get the odd hour/half day off without quibble to make the extra hours not feel like being taken advantage of

    Anecdotal evidence is not something one should rely on. It's useless. I mean, you are commenting on every worker on the planet, yet with only 30 years work experience you seem to know what every single job entails and somehow you think you have the authority to pass judgement on others. A ridiculous statement.

    Way to back peddle with your edit :rolleyes:

    "You either can't do your job right, or you get time off for the extra work or you get paid more", is it possible to be any more vague?
    vectorvictor wrote: »
    I think your attitude is uncalled for and perhaps you find it necessary to insult posters in the hope that it makes your questionable argument more powerful

    Not liking a post, or not having a retort does not equate to me insulting anybody, which I have not. What's really uncalled for is the attitude some here have towards others that work outside the standard 7-8 hour days.


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    #23
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Work according to your working style. Let the others work as they want. I generally have a lot of flexibility in how I structure my working week and I like that. It’s important me. I work late some evenings cause it suits me, I’m in the zone etc. Other days I finish earlier and get out once the work is done. Most days I start at 8, but if I want a later start, that’s usually no problem.

    If your teammates are looking for you late in the day, when you’ve gone home, it’s probably worth having team chat about different individual working styles and laying down some general guide rules. Because I work late sometimes, my teams can get emails from me at all hours. It’s completely how I choose to work and I would never have expected a response until the next morning. I don’t expect everyone to have the same pattern as me. I have gotten more conscious and I now queue some emails to send early next morning.


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    #24
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Anybody who works for free is a fool.


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    #25
    Lantus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,027 ✭✭✭Lantus


    Might sound dramatic but the biggest regret of those dying is spending too much time at work. Don't be that person.


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    #26
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »
    Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless...

    He made a general point which in general is true.
    You shouldn't take his comment literally, which you seem to be doing.


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    #27
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Most places don't put metrics on productivity and lots of people incorrectly equate more time with more productivity. The only way to argue against that is metrics. Though tbh some managers don't get it.


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    #28
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    White_hills wrote: »
    Hello!

    I've worked for a large corporate for a good few years now, the culture had always been that you leave at the time you're meant to leave at.

    Recently I've joined a team with lots of new starts who never leave on time, this is problematic as they expect me to be available very late in the day and I'm finding this highly frustrating as the work life balance is one of the main reason I continue to work there.

    I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?

    Yes. Beat them with stats. Make your stats better than everyone else.


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    #29
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Just a comment about the practice of people sending work emails at night or late (2 or 3 hours) after normal work hours. I do think this is really poor practice as there are vulnerable people and people under you who will inevitably feel under pressure to reply or who will.stress about not replying. Its fine - or relatively more acceptable- doing that if you are up the foodchain to peers but otherwise it really is a kind of abuse and is certainly never welcome.

    On a similar theme I used work between the US and Ire and the expectation of the US that their emails would be dealt with first or immediately was chilling as was their colonial approach to 'management' - you report to us in HQ USA so you have to drop everything for us and be available 24/7 for our calls/voicemails and emails . Even when they routinely 'forgot' we were 8 hours behind the ramping up of emails and escallations of non prompt responses left a sour taste and was an utter waste of everyones time. I've seen it here too - a very senior manager/ director toiling late and profousely thanking thise who had replied 'promptly' it at 9pm while making undercutting comments at others who waited til the following day to come in and reply during office hours. People should be more considerate of how their actions impact on the stress levels and family time of their colleagues. You can now time emails to be sent at particular times during work hours the following day - we should be using techonology to.support quality of life and good work practices and not abusing its immediacy and pressuring an already stretched and stressed workforce.


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    #30
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Your contract should state when your expected to respond to work out of normal hours. Many people work all different schedules and even part time. People should be able to deal with that, without falling apart.

    But if someone is constantly trying to get people to breach their contracted hours, that's a different issue. It's really nothing to do with when people send emails. Unless someone is deliberately making it an issue.


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    #31
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,515 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    peasant wrote: »
    There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

    1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

    2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

    Sometimes shiit happens.
    I worked a job for 13 years and it was 12.5 hour shifts, I was responsible for personnel safety among other things.
    If an accident happened near end of shift I could be there for
    Maybe an extra 2-3 hours completing paperwork and mandatory investigation reporting.

    Sometimes jobs legitimately run over, sometimes it’s a bad culture in the company that expects it. There’s a huge difference.


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