Feeling bad about leaving work on time

White_hills

Hello!

I've worked for a large corporate for a good few years now, the culture had always been that you leave at the time you're meant to leave at.

Recently I've joined a team with lots of new starts who never leave on time, this is problematic as they expect me to be available very late in the day and I'm finding this highly frustrating as the work life balance is one of the main reason I continue to work there.

I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?

vectorvictor

White_hills wrote: »

I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?

Flip it around - it could make you look good for being on top of your workload and them look bad because they are unable to perform their duties in a normal work day?

That said, late finishes are common with new starts - alot of the time it's to give the impression of being dedicated and interested rather than an actual need.

If a large element of your teams work is team work rather than individual duties I can understand your fear/guilt but really I would be looking at how to address the lack of efficiency. You may need to take a bit of a hit to support your new colleagues in their early days and to benefit the team as a whole but I wouldn't be facilitating it becoming the norm.

A work day is long enough. After 7 or 8 hours on a job what is the quality of the output (mental and physical) going to be like?

grassroot1

If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job
Go in on time go home on time.

White_hills

Thanks everyone! You're all making me feel better!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

grassroot1 wrote: »

If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job

Stupid comment is stupid. Just oozes naivety.

Continue to leave on time if your work is completed. Of all people to not worry about it's new starts.

grassroot1

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

Stupid comment is stupid. Just oozes naivety.

Continue to leave on time if your work is completed. Of all people to not worry about it's new starts.

Thanks for that, however it is my experience the employee who comes in on time goes home on time and is working, is far more valuable to me than someone who is constantly staying late to hit deadlines.
You see a lot of people running round flapping and fooling and little to show for it.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

grassroot1 wrote: »

Thanks for that, however it is my experience the employee who comes in on time goes home on time and is working, is far more valuable to me than someone who is constantly staying late to hit deadlines.
You see a lot of people running round flapping and fooling and little to show for it.

Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless.

A very poor manager would base somebodies value solely on time management. Here's something you may not realize, every job is different, every company is different and, believe it or not, every body is different. So to paint everybody with the same brush with an idiotic comment like "If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job" is just not very intelligent.

vectorvictor

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless.

A very poor manager would base somebodies value solely on time management. Here's something you may not realize, every job is different, every company is different and, believe it or not, every body is different. So to paint everybody with the same brush with an idiotic comment like "If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job" is just not very intelligent.

Surely if contracted for 8 hours to perform certain tasks / responsibilities and that is achieved by some but not by others then there is a void somewhere in the productivity of those who cannot meet the same standards / output.

I Am The Law

Don't.

peasant

There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

Pelvis

grassroot1 wrote: »

If someone cannot do their work in 7 or 8 hours they are not up to the job
Go in on time go home on time.

It's a pretty silly statement tbh as there are far too many variables to take into account. The following is equally valid....

If an employee can't get do their job in 8 hours then management are not up to the job.

yogi37

I have flexi time in my job and always finish work and head out the door after the required 7 hours. There are plenty of others who would easily do a 9 or 10 hour day and get nothing extra for it. As long as you are getting your work done and this is recognised by your manager then you are doing the right thing.

Whenever I am in a performance review I also like to point out that I like to work efficiently and complete my workload in my 7 hours.

TOss Sweep

peasant wrote: »

There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

I would disagree with this. It really depends on the job you are doing. I work 9-5 most days but I can be here later than I am supposed to due to a the job I am working on is running over. And this isn't down to anyone not getting done on time or someone trying to impress. Just down to the nature of the role and the industry.

On the flipside not everyone who does 9-5 is doing their work efficiently either. There is a guy here who works 9-5 and does the bare minimum most days and nothing other days.

Nermal

In some careers there is a tacit assumption that you will work overtime, and it's reflected in a higher salary.

Sometimes when promotions and bonuses are available, unpaid overtime is considered. No one will officially tell you this.

It's up to you to decide if that's the case. It can take a while to figure out if it's worth it.

peasant

TOss Sweep wrote: »

I would disagree with this. It really depends on the job you are doing. I work 9-5 most days but I can be here later than I am supposed to due to a the job I am working on is running over. And this isn't down to anyone not getting done on time or someone trying to impress. Just down to the nature of the role and the industry.

Unless you're being compensated for your extra time with either time off or extra money, you're being taken advantage of...simples

Some people may be proud of the fact that they have a role or work in an industry where this is common practice and/or a badge of honour...I'm not one of them

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

vectorvictor wrote: »

Surely if contracted for 8 hours to perform certain tasks / responsibilities and that is achieved by some but not by others then there is a void somewhere in the productivity of those who cannot meet the same standards / output.

If all the task are the same and the experience of the workers are all equal, then you can measure it, but it's pretty difficult. As stated before, and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.

peasant wrote: »

There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

peasant

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

On the contrary...working for more than 30 years now in a good variety of roles and companies.

The two reasons are what thirty years of experience boils down to in the end..no need to back it up

EDIT
of course there are jobs that do not happen 9-5, that involve travel, entertaining, etc (done those too)..but you should still either earn enough or get the odd hour/half day off without quibble to make the extra hours not feel like being taken advantage of

vectorvictor

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.



What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

I think your attitude is uncalled for and perhaps you find it necessary to insult posters in the hope that it makes your questionable argument more powerful

JustAThought

I like to have a long lunch that includes a half hour walk in the sunlight and dont mind having to patch this into the end of the day where otherwise I will just be sitting in bumper to bumper traffic in the dark. Most employers are flexible in relation to reasonable requests about trips to the bank once a month or bus timetables/commutes. It can lead to staff starting and ending their day at slightly different times. There will always be people who want to fine tune a project or use the rush hour time to poke at their emails or have quiet time in the office to surf privately or do their own thing. Dosnt mean they're inefficient or bad at their jobs or that their managers are monsters.

I had staff that wanted to start early because it suited their drop off at the creche and finish a half hour early and this was fine, same with people who wanted to leave early (5!) on two days and work the time in another night to get to a night course - no problem there either. Peoples lives and commutes are complicated and we show our induviduality and humanity in the way we accept and facilitate this without damaging the work dynamic or team spirit. Everyone needs a break from the tyrany of work and confirmity so long as it is fair on all concerned and the work or project output dosnt suffer.

If I could work on a Saturday and have Mondays off (again) I would - dead quiet office,total efficiency,no interruptions or annonying phone calls and loud talking -office bliss .

questionmark?

OP if you get your work done on time and are contributing as you should then leave on time. IMO there are only three reasons for working late unless in rare exceptional circumstances.

1) rubbish time management by the employee

2) Management are rubbish at having the correct resources in place to do the work required.

3) Trying to make an impression. No need to be there just want to be seen to be 'buying in' to the company (who would replace you in a flash)

grassroot1

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

If all the task are the same and the experience of the workers are all equal, then you can measure it, but it's pretty difficult. As stated before, and this might come as a shock to you, not every body is the same. Imagine that... Again, your initial statement was incredibly broad, you include every worker in that statement and that's just incomprehensible.



What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

Very condescending thought you were very ironic.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

peasant wrote: »

On the contrary...working for more than 30 years now in a good variety of roles and companies.

The two reasons are what thirty years of experience boils down to in the end..no need to back it up

EDIT
of course there are jobs that do not happen 9-5, that involve travel, entertaining, etc (done those too)..but you should still either earn enough or get the odd hour/half day off without quibble to make the extra hours not feel like being taken advantage of

Anecdotal evidence is not something one should rely on. It's useless. I mean, you are commenting on every worker on the planet, yet with only 30 years work experience you seem to know what every single job entails and somehow you think you have the authority to pass judgement on others. A ridiculous statement.

Way to back peddle with your edit :rolleyes:

"You either can't do your job right, or you get time off for the extra work or you get paid more", is it possible to be any more vague?

vectorvictor wrote: »

I think your attitude is uncalled for and perhaps you find it necessary to insult posters in the hope that it makes your questionable argument more powerful

Not liking a post, or not having a retort does not equate to me insulting anybody, which I have not. What's really uncalled for is the attitude some here have towards others that work outside the standard 7-8 hour days.

dudara

Work according to your working style. Let the others work as they want. I generally have a lot of flexibility in how I structure my working week and I like that. It’s important me. I work late some evenings cause it suits me, I’m in the zone etc. Other days I finish earlier and get out once the work is done. Most days I start at 8, but if I want a later start, that’s usually no problem.

If your teammates are looking for you late in the day, when you’ve gone home, it’s probably worth having team chat about different individual working styles and laying down some general guide rules. Because I work late sometimes, my teams can get emails from me at all hours. It’s completely how I choose to work and I would never have expected a response until the next morning. I don’t expect everyone to have the same pattern as me. I have gotten more conscious and I now queue some emails to send early next morning.

dresden8

Anybody who works for free is a fool.

Lantus

Might sound dramatic but the biggest regret of those dying is spending too much time at work. Don't be that person.

beauf

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

Depends on your line of work. You also only offer anecdotal evidence, which is incredibly useless...

He made a general point which in general is true.
You shouldn't take his comment literally, which you seem to be doing.

beauf

Most places don't put metrics on productivity and lots of people incorrectly equate more time with more productivity. The only way to argue against that is metrics. Though tbh some managers don't get it.

beauf

White_hills wrote: »

Hello!

I've worked for a large corporate for a good few years now, the culture had always been that you leave at the time you're meant to leave at.

Recently I've joined a team with lots of new starts who never leave on time, this is problematic as they expect me to be available very late in the day and I'm finding this highly frustrating as the work life balance is one of the main reason I continue to work there.

I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to. I've stayed a good few evenings but today I left on time. I now feel that it's going to make me look bad, has anyone else dealt with this before?

Yes. Beat them with stats. Make your stats better than everyone else.

JustAThought

Just a comment about the practice of people sending work emails at night or late (2 or 3 hours) after normal work hours. I do think this is really poor practice as there are vulnerable people and people under you who will inevitably feel under pressure to reply or who will.stress about not replying. Its fine - or relatively more acceptable- doing that if you are up the foodchain to peers but otherwise it really is a kind of abuse and is certainly never welcome.

On a similar theme I used work between the US and Ire and the expectation of the US that their emails would be dealt with first or immediately was chilling as was their colonial approach to 'management' - you report to us in HQ USA so you have to drop everything for us and be available 24/7 for our calls/voicemails and emails . Even when they routinely 'forgot' we were 8 hours behind the ramping up of emails and escallations of non prompt responses left a sour taste and was an utter waste of everyones time. I've seen it here too - a very senior manager/ director toiling late and profousely thanking thise who had replied 'promptly' it at 9pm while making undercutting comments at others who waited til the following day to come in and reply during office hours. People should be more considerate of how their actions impact on the stress levels and family time of their colleagues. You can now time emails to be sent at particular times during work hours the following day - we should be using techonology to.support quality of life and good work practices and not abusing its immediacy and pressuring an already stretched and stressed workforce.

beauf

Your contract should state when your expected to respond to work out of normal hours. Many people work all different schedules and even part time. People should be able to deal with that, without falling apart.

But if someone is constantly trying to get people to breach their contracted hours, that's a different issue. It's really nothing to do with when people send emails. Unless someone is deliberately making it an issue.

_Brian

peasant wrote: »

There are only two reasons to work over the assigned hours:

1) you didn't get the task done in time...which means you're either given too much or you've wasted time during the day..you need to have a word with the boss or with yourself.

2) you want to impress the boss...in which case you're being stupid. The only thing you have to sell is your workforce and you're giving it away for free, stupid:D

Sometimes shiit happens.
I worked a job for 13 years and it was 12.5 hour shifts, I was responsible for personnel safety among other things.
If an accident happened near end of shift I could be there for
Maybe an extra 2-3 hours completing paperwork and mandatory investigation reporting.

Sometimes jobs legitimately run over, sometimes it’s a bad culture in the company that expects it. There’s a huge difference.

subpar

Staying back late is a culture thing , it needs to be controlled from both the top and the bottom. Senior managers when asked about it may often say there is no need for it or it does or should not happen whilst at the same time knowing full well that is is happening and doing nothing to stop it and even taking advantage of it to get work done on the cheap.

Lower ranking staff in a position to stay late will often do so in order to impress their managers as opposed to other staff members who have to leave on time in order to connect with buses or trains or get the creches before closure time.

The best way to end the culture is that a different staff member has the task at normal end of work time every evening of going round the building and turning off all the lights

---

simple but effective ,

beauf

I often get my best ideas or side of work hours and often work in bursts where I'm in the zone. Very common where creativity is involved.

People aren't all the same.

However working outside your hours constantly or under duress is entirely different.

Also people working long hours to great an impression is a bad habit. Something managers need to manage. The work often suffers when people do this.

evolving_doors

If you work for free you'll always be busy.

beauf

Office politics are often more about perception than productivity. The only way to counter that other then playing the same game, is via hard numbers. Some people are too stupid to understand the numbers though.

LegacyUser

Myself and a colleague finished a biggish project last Tuesday at 5.15, a day ahead of schedule.
I suggested we grab a meal and drink to celebrate.
He said he wanted to hold on in the office until at least 7 to forward the documents to the boss men 'to look good'.

Wanderer2010

This topic is always a massive hot potato when its brought up. The simple fact is you are only a number at the end of the day, be it a new start or an old established company. If you couldn't come to work because you were sick or in an accident you would be replaced in a day or two.

Staying late either for show or to get extra work done is a mugs game because the more you do, the more you are EXPECTED to do creating a cycle where you have set the bar for what you can do. Ignore the people commenting and go home on time, I always felt sorry for people who work long hours routinely, its time they can never ever get back.

Wanderer2010

_Brian wrote: »

Sometimes shiit happens.
I worked a job for 13 years and it was 12.5 hour shifts, I was responsible for personnel safety among other things.
If an accident happened near end of shift I could be there for
Maybe an extra 2-3 hours completing paperwork and mandatory investigation reporting.

Sometimes jobs legitimately run over, sometimes it’s a bad culture in the company that expects it. There’s a huge difference.

How on earth did you do so many years of 12.5 hours shifts you must have been exhausted?

mikemac2

Are the new staff properly trained? I think they are staying late as they have the same workload as everyone but take longer to do it. It's normal and they will speed up in a few weeks

I'm new in my job and I stay late as there are pretty much zero written procedures and the other staff are not particularly helpful. I wrote over a 100 page procedure document with loads of screenshots. It wasn't to impress anyone, it was more to help me! It should have existed before I got it here but alas that's the way it is

White_hills wrote: »

Recently I've joined a team with lots of new starts who never leave on time,

I feel that the team lacks the efficiency that I'm used to.

Give it a month or six weeks and see where it is. I think it'll change. You can't expect new starters to be as instantly brilliant as someone there several years

HandsomeBob

Cristiano Better Nitpicker wrote: »

What a narrow minded opinion. Very condescending also. Only two reasons? Is that all you could think of or is that all there is? Anything to back this up?


I think some people on this thread have some severely limited work experience.

Strange.....it's your attitude that I find condescending on this thread. I don't think anyone is claiming their personal view of the OPs issue is the standard view across all sectors.

OP I'd also take the view that it's up to you to assess the situation. Personally I get in and do the required work to a good standard and leave on time. I've found staying beyond that doesn't improve much as there's always going to be something new that pops up that has to be done. If that sounds familiar to you then go home when you want and enjoy your personal time.