Mens Rights Thread

El_Duderino 09 · 18-05-2018 8:36am

Stonedpilot wrote: »

I dont hate rugby enjoy it and been to many games! You can be flippant too on these pal

bern to

Ireland v New Zealand
Ireland v Australia
Ireland v Wales

etc etc

I see it was entertainment not something to define masculinity with. A good 80 mins of entertainment. Nothing more or less.

Never called em meatheads. Go on with your agenda or whatever your at or on but didnt type that.

No I looked back and you called them muscleheads not meatheads (like there's a difference). And my original point that you latched onto in response to your post about the lack of male empowerment and Marxist feminists opposing male empowerment. I'll be watching the rugby where we'll see men at the pinnacle of their profession displaying lots of admirable qualities without a Marxist feminist saying a word in opposition. It was you who described them in derogatory terms simply because I said they display admirable qualities.

Now let's assume your issues with rugby have been registered and move on from that.

I keep asking how Peterson defines masculinity and you keep harping on about rugby. So how does Peterson define masculinity?

iptba · 19-05-2018 1:49am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/poorer-students-twice-as-likely-to-drop-out-of-college-in-year-one-1.3499219

Dr Graham Love, chief executive of the Higher Education Authority, said overall there were positive trends.

However, he said high non-progression rates on some diploma and honours degree courses in computing, engineering and construction remain a worry.

“The majority of these students are male. They may learn in a different way and I am glad that the new apprenticeships model is responding to that way of learning,” he said.

This could be true. An alternative interpretation is that some courses are harder to pass than others. Courses that involve mathematics or the physical sciences are often hierarchical, where knowledge is built up; so it can be harder to follow lectures if you haven't got on top of previous information.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-05-2018 10:37pm

Really interesting chat on Real Time with Bill Maher this week. Dan Savage was talking with Bill about the INCELS and how dangerous they are. Dan said it’s one of the reasons why sexual work should be decriminalised and destigmatised.

He mentioned a guy who’s quadriplegic and he pays for sex because he’s unlikely to ever have sex otherwise because he’s physically disabled. Some people are socially disabled and are unlikely to have sex without paying for it.

Instead we have bitter people who are rejected by society because they can’t fit in and that sometimes turns into violence.

Food for thought.

Calhoun · 19-05-2018 10:56pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Really interesting chat on Real Time with Bill Maher this week. Dan Savage was talking with Bill about the INCELS and how dangerous they are. Dan said it’s one of the reasons why sexual work should be decriminalised and destigmatised.

He mentioned a guy who’s quadriplegic and he pays for sex because he’s unlikely to ever have sex otherwise because he’s physically disabled. Some people are socially disabled and are unlikely to have sex without paying for it.

Instead we have bitter people who are rejected by society because they can’t fit in and that sometimes turns into violence.

Food for thought.

Food for thought on what ? Disenfranchised people turning to extremism ? Well I never it's not like it ever happened before in our history ever.

On the incels thing I had seen online there are now witch hunts against young single men in some companies in America.

El_Duderino 09 · 20-05-2018 10:32am

Calhoun wrote: »

Food for thought on what ? Disenfranchised people turning to extremism ? Well I never it's not like it ever happened before in our history ever.

On the incels thing I had seen online there are now witch hunts against young single men in some companies in America.

Food for thought on what I said above, I should think. Enfranchising the disenfranchised, socially outcast men who turn to extremism. Food for thought on decriminalising and destigmatising one of the things that separates those men from other people.

iptba · 23-05-2018 3:51pm

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

Women's Academy
https://planetwomanacademy.com/
Also a few days later:
#planetwoman

#GirlCrewPro

"GirlCrew is a platform for women to make new friends. Not keen on going to a concert solo? Find a crew with us. Want to book a vacation but your friends are all coupled up? Find a group of girls to travel with here."
(Seems fairly harmless)

#swipi2018
Society for Women in Philosophy Ireland Conference
A lot of it seems to be about feminism
http://www.swip-ireland.com/index.php/events/6th-annual-conference

#BeOneInspireOne
Be One Inspire One - Celebrating Successful Irish Women. We're looking forward to joining Orna Mulcahy and a panel of inspirational speakers in @RobertasDublin this morning #BeOneInspireOne
https://twitter.com/SparkIRL/status/999189392655900672
https://twitter.com/emesmc/status/999189103295025152

JRant · 23-05-2018 4:24pm

iptba wrote: »

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

Women's Academy
https://planetwomanacademy.com/
Also a few days later:
#planetwoman

#GirlCrewPro

"GirlCrew is a platform for women to make new friends. Not keen on going to a concert solo? Find a crew with us. Want to book a vacation but your friends are all coupled up? Find a group of girls to travel with here."
(Seems fairly harmless)

#swipi2018
Society for Women in Philosophy Ireland Conference
A lot of it seems to be about feminism
http://www.swip-ireland.com/index.php/events/6th-annual-conference

#BeOneInspireOne
Be One Inspire One - Celebrating Successful Irish Women. We're looking forward to joining Orna Mulcahy and a panel of inspirational speakers in @RobertasDublin this morning #BeOneInspireOne
https://twitter.com/SparkIRL/status/999189392655900672
https://twitter.com/emesmc/status/999189103295025152

Methinks Joyce Walsh is talking through her hoop. I'll be 77 before idiots like her stop peddling ymthis myth.

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2018 4:52pm

Accidental post

23-05-2018 5:38pm

JRant wrote: »

Methinks Joyce Walsh is talking through her hoop. I'll be 77 before idiots like her stop peddling ymthis myth.

Or the recognition that women have the same rights as men, and their "voice" can be heard just as easily. This idea that women are struggling to be heard will likely continue forever. :rolleyes:

iptba · 27-05-2018 1:16am

Each and every one of us knows a Mark Hennessy

Saturday, May 26, 2018 - 12:00 AM
The man and the crime did not match, we could not reconcile the two, for we all know a Mark Hennesy, writes Joyce Fegan

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/each-and-every-one-of-us-knows-a-mark-hennessy-845128.html

WE ALL know a Mark Hennessy, we just pretend to ourselves we don’t. The white, middle class, middle-aged father of two — who doesn’t wear his criminality on his sleeve. He has us all conned. We play golf with him. We go for pints with him. We sit across from him in the office. We meet him on Saturday mornings at the kids’ soccer practice. We might even invite him inside our family home. We all know a Mark Hennessy, we just never really know what lurks beneath that Joe Bloggs surface.

The (female) journalist mentions four convicted individuals. They all have one thing in common, they are male.

I wonder would a newspaper be equally likely to publish such an article on four women (incl. by a man) and phrase it as such.

Calhoun · 27-05-2018 1:56am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/each-and-every-one-of-us-knows-a-mark-hennessy-845128.html

The (female) journalist mentions four convicted individuals. They all have one thing in common, they are male.

I wonder would a newspaper be equally likely to publish such an article on four women (incl. by a man) and phrase it as such.

Its ok its men they are reporting on so its not sexist, we just cant help being a bunch of rapey bastards.

Pawwed Rig · 27-05-2018 8:43am

Hennessy is a 1 in a million type. We all most definitely do not know people like him unless we are now trying to marginalise the slightly social awkward middle aged man and assume he is a potential murderer.

silverharp · 27-05-2018 8:58am

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Hennessy is a 1 in a million type. We all most definitely do not know people like him unless we are now trying to marginalise the slightly social awkward middle aged man and assume he is a potential murderer.

i was thinking the same, ill go to my grave not knowing anybody who has ever been in court for gbh let alone serial killer style murder, she seems to be the type of person who just gets off on the idea that they are in mortal danger everytime they step out the door

professore · 27-05-2018 9:03am

backspin. wrote: »

I'm not clicking on the article. What is her point. Yes we all do probably know a Hennessey. We don't know what he will do or how we would stop him doing what he did. That's reality.

We all know a man who would murder a young girl for kicks???? Emmm no we don't. This type of person is extremely rare. We all know abusive assholes. The same ones women chase after and fight over. I'll grant you that.

backspin. · 27-05-2018 9:45am

professore wrote: »

We all know a man who would murder a young girl for kicks???? Emmm no we don't. This type of person is extremely rare. We all know abusive assholes. The same ones women chase after and fight over. I'll grant you that.

We all know an average of about a 1000 people. The chances are one of them is a monster capable of doing what Hennessey did. My point is how the hell are we supposed to know which one let alone how to stop them.

There is a ridiculous notion among some feminists that men as a whole are responsible for people like Hennessy and if we'd only just call them out when we hear them say a sexist joke or have a quiet word with them over a pint then all will be well. It's completely silly.

silverharp · 27-05-2018 10:05am

backspin. wrote: »

We all know an average of about a 1000 people. The chances are one of them is a monster capable of doing what Hennessey did. My point is how the hell are we supposed to know which one let alone how to stop them.

There is a ridiculous notion among some feminists that men as a whole are responsible for people like Hennessy and if we'd only just call them out when we hear them say a sexist joke or have a quiet word with them over a pint then all will be well. It's completely silly.

that would imply there are 4000 serial type killers in ireland , there are probably more like 40, so we are talking 1/100,000

iptba · 14-06-2018 10:10pm

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#Standing4Women
@standing4women_
Go to @Standing 4 Women on Facebook to see our list of gatherings in support of the women and families directly affected by CervicalCheck.

#suffragettes

mBan
#LanamBan
Today @MansionHouseDub we are marking Lá na mBan, the centenary of the day in 1918 when Irishwomen mobilised in massive numbers against Conscription. From 12noon to 3pm there will be speeches, re-enactments and music on a Dublin Tram brought in by @SIPTU. Bígí linn do Lá na mBan.

#PROCESSIONS2018
Women are celebrating 100 years of the right to vote in the UK

#MensHealthWeek

#LadiesWhoLaunch

Ladies Who Launch
@ladieswholaunch ‏
Ladies Who Launch is an online and offline social network that provides opportunities for women to move their businesses and personal goals forward.
https://twitter.com/VoxproGroup/status/1006575183480619008

#standinhershoes
Ireland 's Most Powerful Women Top Awards Celebration
Ireland’s Top 25 most powerful women @WXN awards
@WXN_Ireland
At #WXN, we inspire smart #women to lead. Join the movement today! @WXN @WXN_Ireland
https://www.wxnetwork.com/ga/

iptba · 20-06-2018 11:10pm

Government apologises for hurt and stigma inflicted on gay men

The Government has apologised to thousands of gay men criminalised by the State for their sexuality and for the hurt and stigma inflicted on them and their families.

Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan offered a State apology to the men for the effect of laws denying them the right to live without fear and for the failure of tolerance in Irish society.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar admitted the apology would not erase the wrong that was done but said society had learned from the men’s suffering.

Continues at:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-apologises-for-hurt-and-stigma-inflicted-on-gay-men-1.3536709

masculinist · 21-06-2018 12:18am

Why is there women's issue spam in a men's rights thread ?

iptba · 21-06-2018 12:30am

masculinist wrote: »

Why is there women's issue spam in a men's rights thread ?

I just find it interesting to highlight the huge imbalance in the ratio of the male to female gender issues that get highlighted and the number of events there are for women/about helping women, particularly any where taxpayer money could be involved. If I simply said that there was a huge imbalance some might not believe me but this documents what is happening.

Also I find it interesting to see all these women-only events and similar when events for men can be so frowned on. I remember for example how much fuss was made by the Equality Authority and others about Portmarnock Golf Club.

I find it interesting to see what feminists are highlighting.

Sometimes I've highlighted some questionable comments that have been made in connection with these hashtags.

Sometimes interesting discussions having ensued.

drunkmonkey · 21-06-2018 12:43am

I get you, I think women have lost the plot to be honest. There doing the exact same thing that happened to them to today's men. I even saw a Men's shed up for sale today. Men will be non binary hens if this keeps up.
Looks like men are beating them at their own game though by identifying as women and being better at it than they can.
As long as we have girls like Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood to keep them in check men will still rule the world.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-06-2018 9:14am

iptba wrote: »

Government apologises for hurt and stigma inflicted on gay men

The Government has apologised to thousands of gay men criminalised by the State for their sexuality and for the hurt and stigma inflicted on them and their families.

Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan offered a State apology to the men for the effect of laws denying them the right to live without fear and for the failure of tolerance in Irish society.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar admitted the apology would not erase the wrong that was done but said society had learned from the men’s suffering.

Continues at:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-apologises-for-hurt-and-stigma-inflicted-on-gay-men-1.3536709

That was great news for men and men’s rights. An acknowledgment of an injustice committed against men and an apology from the state ,through the Taoiseach.

It shows how things can be changed

El_Duderino 09 · 25-06-2018 3:01pm

I was listening to a podcast which discussed the INCEL movement (men who can’t get women so they call them selves involuntary celibate) I looked up a few videos online and I have to say I was moved. I don’t have much time hit the misogyny or the bitterness towards other people. But reading between the lines, I think their videos constitute a massive cry got help.

There are lots of surface level problems like the fact that they put way too much emphasis on sex as the defining factor in their self worth. But what was plain to see was that the fellas are in a lot of pain.

Some of them attribute their lack of success to their looks but the one thing they have in common is they’re socially inept for one reason or another. I heard Dan Savage describe them as socially disabled which I though was an interesting description.

What can realistically be done to help these men?

iptba · 25-06-2018 3:35pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I was listening to a podcast which discussed the INCEL movement (men who can’t get women so they call them selves involuntary celibate) I looked up a few videos online and I have to say I was moved. I don’t have much time hit the misogyny or the bitterness towards other people. But reading between the lines, I think their videos constitute a massive cry got help.

There are lots of surface level problems like the fact that they put way too much emphasis on sex as the defining factor in their self worth. But what was plain to see was that the fellas are in a lot of pain.

Some of them attribute their lack of success to their looks but the one thing they have in common is they’re socially inept for one reason or another. I heard Dan Savage describe them as socially disabled which I though was an interesting description.

What can realistically be done to help these men?

I haven’t looked in to it but does seem like an interesting topic. Different people can have different types of hardships in life. They seem tho have been shunned by some/many men’s rights fora e.g. men’s rights reddit and possibly their whole forum was closed? Females often get support and advice to look their best which is a big factor for them in the dating game.

silverharp · 25-06-2018 4:23pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I was listening to a podcast which discussed the INCEL movement (men who can’t get women so they call them selves involuntary celibate) I looked up a few videos online and I have to say I was moved. I don’t have much time hit the misogyny or the bitterness towards other people. But reading between the lines, I think their videos constitute a massive cry got help.

There are lots of surface level problems like the fact that they put way too much emphasis on sex as the defining factor in their self worth. But what was plain to see was that the fellas are in a lot of pain.

Some of them attribute their lack of success to their looks but the one thing they have in common is they’re socially inept for one reason or another. I heard Dan Savage describe them as socially disabled which I though was an interesting description.

What can realistically be done to help these men?

with the caveat that I assume this is a tiny % of young men of a country that has a large population, firstly i would say that nobody is realistically an involuntary celibate (leaving aside anyone that has problems because they have a diagnosable mental or physical issues). i would guess most of them are young and just slow starters who missed out of some basic life advice.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-06-2018 4:37pm

silverharp wrote: »

with the caveat that I assume this is a tiny % of young men of a country that has a large population, firstly i would say that nobody is realistically an involuntary celibate (leaving aside anyone that has problems because they have a diagnosable mental or physical issues). i would guess most of them are young and just slow starters who missed out of some basic life advice.

I think autism type disorders are common. More accurately, they are socially inept in some way which is bound to include a lot of autistic people or people with autistic traits.

So incel isn’t a diagnosable thing, but the things that that make them unable to get a partner, might be.

In any case, what can or should realistically be done to help them?

silverharp · 25-06-2018 5:08pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I think autism type disorders are common. More accurately, they are socially inept in some way which is bound to include a lot of autistic people or people with autistic traits.

So incel isn’t a diagnosable thing, but the things that that make them unable to get a partner, might be.

In any case, what can or should realistically be done to help them?

hence my caveat , autism or aspergers would be a large impediment to traditional dating i'd imagine. Standard age old advice, improve themselves or maybe they have just learned some poor or entitled expectations and patterns of thinking

25-06-2018 5:43pm

silverharp wrote: »

hence my caveat , autism or aspergers would be a large impediment to traditional dating i'd imagine. Standard age old advice, improve themselves or maybe they have just learned some poor or entitled expectations and patterns of thinking

Or they've been unlucky in those women they've approached for dating, or dating experiences themselves. It tends to be glossed over just how brutal many young women can be towards men she's not interested in, and a lot of negative behavior towards boys, can simply be to gain points with her group of friends.

The general problem with dating is that a huge percentage of responsibility for success is laid at the feet of the male. He does the approach, the initial flirting, and the chasing afterward. Some young women might take control but most don't. It's slightly different as women get older/experienced and have more confidence but even then most women wait for the male to make all the moves, while the woman sits back in judgment of the whole process.

I've had horrible experiences in approaching women when I was a teenager and again in my 20s (even thinking back I shudder at the shame and humiliation involved). It's one of the main reasons I don't tend to date western women now. So, no, I'd place a fair amount of responsibility for the way these guys feel... on the women they've known while developing. A little social responsibility for how they treat boys would go a long way.

There's very little in the way of positive encouragement for boys to learn dating. Perhaps it's different now, but I suspect it isn't. Either you learn quickly, have a natural talent in the area, or you're "a loser". And from the behavior of young women on TV or seeing my nieces grow into adults, I don't think things have really improved any for boys.

I'd throw in something extra. Society tends to judge boys/men for wanting to improve with regards to dating. Either you're naturally good at dating or you're lucky enough to meet someone when you're young. Good for them. But should you turn to others for advice (like speed seduction or PUA or a half dozen other 'disciplines'), then you're somehow faking it all. Part of the reason PUA turned into such a clusterfck of muppets is because of the negative attention it received from day one. You would not believe the amount of criticism I've received for learning NLP, communication styles, voice training, body language lessons, etc all of which to help me with dating. Oh, sure it makes for much better dating and wonderful connections with women... but I learned to do it. So.. it's all somehow suspect.

Many of these boys are angry because there is no instruction on how to become good with women, and learning to date from a vulnerable position without help is really frustrating.

silverharp · 25-06-2018 6:02pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Or they've been unlucky in those women they've approached for dating, or dating experiences themselves. It tends to be glossed over just how brutal many young women can be towards men she's not interested in, and a lot of negative behavior towards boys, can simply be to gain points with her group of friends.

The general problem with dating is that a huge percentage of responsibility for success is laid at the feet of the male. He does the approach, the initial flirting, and the chasing afterward. Some young women might take control but most don't. It's slightly different as women get older/experienced and have more confidence but even then most women wait for the male to make all the moves, while the woman sits back in judgment of the whole process.

I've had horrible experiences in approaching women when I was a teenager and again in my 20s (even thinking back I shudder at the shame and humiliation involved). It's one of the main reasons I don't tend to date western women now. So, no, I'd place a fair amount of responsibility for the way these guys feel... on the women they've known while developing. A little social responsibility for how they treat boys would go a long way.

There's very little in the way of positive encouragement for boys to learn dating. Perhaps it's different now, but I suspect it isn't. Either you learn quickly, have a natural talent in the area, or you're "a loser". And from the behavior of young women on TV or seeing my nieces grow into adults, I don't think things have really improved any for boys.

i fully agree, on the one hand dating seems to have gotten a little more skewed than back in the 80's or 90's. On the plus side there is a lot more information and resources about on line. When i was a teenager there were no forums where i could get advice and nobody told you what you should do or how to improve your place in the dating world or to even understand the dynamics of dating.
but i can see that some guys fall through the cracks and never see an upside. I would say they should watch a jordon peterson play list and think on it but i dont want to trigger duderino

El_Duderino 09 · 25-06-2018 6:18pm

silverharp wrote: »

but i can see that some guys fall through the cracks and never see an upside. I would say they should watch a jordon peterson play list and think on it but i dont want to trigger duderino

Colour me triggered.

If there's a problem that can't be solved by telling other people to read Jordan Peterson, then I'm yet to see it!

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