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Train cancellations 18th June onwards

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135

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    #62
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    GM228 wrote: »
    Indeed, rumour is the NTA have approved some (but not all) cancellations to start next week.

    I don't know what they were looking for but next week is going to be busy on twitter.


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    #63
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    I don't know what they were looking for but next week is going to be busy on twitter.

    See post #6


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    #64
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Seems we may be seeing fiasco about mentoring and the new drivers being paid to do diddly squat whilst the existing drivers earn large amounts of overtime coming home to roost.

    Basically it seems to be a situation where the lack of mentoring and the time it took to solve that dispute is leading to a situation where there are not enough drivers to operate a service without paying lots of overtime to existing staff.

    If the training had started earlier we'd probably not have the service cancellations because they'd have saved a lot of money in overtime and have more fully trained staff they can roster on the services to boot.

    The fact the mentoring issue is now resolved though should thankfully mean this is a one off situation.


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    #65
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    devnull wrote: »
    Seems we may be seeing fiasco about mentoring and the new drivers being paid to do diddly squat whilst the existing drivers earn large amounts of overtime coming home to roost.

    Basically it seems to be a situation where the lack of mentoring and the time it took to solve that dispute is leading to a situation where there are not enough drivers to operate a service without paying lots of overtime to existing staff.

    If the training had started earlier we'd probably not have the service cancellations because they'd have saved a lot of money in overtime and have more fully trained staff they can roster on the services to boot.

    The fact the mentoring issue is now resolved though should thankfully mean this is a one off situation.

    Always with the conspiracy theory..


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    #66
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Always with the conspiracy theory..

    Leading up to this the following happened:
    - Irish Rail spent well over a year paying new drivers to do nothing.
    - This was because existing staff refused to mentor them
    - This meant that they had less staff available than they projected.
    - This was lucrative for existing drivers as it allowed them to earn more overtime.
    - This meant that Irish Rail had to spend a lot more money on overtime which ate cash

    The current situation is:
    - Irish Rail do not have enough trained staff to run a full schedule
    - They cannot afford to pay huge levels of overtime to cover this.

    If there was no hold up on training new drivers:
    - They would have more staff to carry out their operational requirements
    - They would not have spent so much money on overtime.
    - Therefore they would be able to spend more on it now.

    I'm sure the unions will paint it as transport being underfunded, negating to say that their members have been refusing to train the additional staff that their company needs to fulfil operational requirements and profiting from it at the same time by feathering their own cap to the point that the public will now suffer.

    The NTA are in a fairly tight spot here, they know that if services are cancelled they will be accused of the above by the unions, but they know that at the same time that a culture where staff use the system to extract much overtime as possible isn't one that they should promote and by allowing service cancellations they send that message out.

    From what's been posted on here so far it seems they may have met somewhere in the middle.


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    #67
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    devnull wrote: »
    Leading up to this the following happened:
    - Irish Rail spent well over a year paying new drivers to do nothing.
    - This was because existing staff refused to mentor them
    - This meant that they had less staff available than they projected.
    - This was lucrative for existing drivers as it allowed them to earn more overtime.
    - This meant that Irish Rail had to spend a lot more money on overtime which ate cash

    The current situation is:
    - Irish Rail do not have enough trained staff to run a full schedule
    - They cannot afford to pay huge levels of overtime to cover this.

    If there was no hold up on training new drivers:
    - They would have more staff to carry out their operational requirements
    - They would not have spent so much money on overtime.
    - Therefore they would be able to spend more on it now.

    I'm sure the unions will paint it as transport being underfunded, negating to say that their members have been refusing to train the additional staff that their company needs to fulfil operational requirements and profiting from it at the same time by feathering their own cap to the point that the public will now suffer.

    The NTA are in a fairly tight spot here, they know that if services are cancelled they will be accused of the above by the unions, but they know that at the same time that a culture where staff use the system to extract much overtime as possible isn't one that they should promote and by allowing service cancellations they send that message out.

    From what's been posted on here so far it seems they may have met somewhere in the middle.

    It's still a conspiracy theory.


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    #68
    hole in my lovelywall
    Registered Users Posts: 305 ✭✭hole in my lovelywall


    The suspense is killing me.


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    #69
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    It's still a conspiracy theory.

    You don't think a lack of available, trained staff means more overtime money for the people who are already trained for the job?

    You don't think that paying staff for overtime when there are staff that are already being paid that should be trained to do the job but aren't costs more money?

    It's not even about conspiracy theories to be honest, it's just HR basics and simple maths.


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    #70
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    They are being trained and mentored.


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    #71
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,758 ✭✭✭cython


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    They are being trained and mentored.

    I think you missed an important word somewhere in your post, specifically the word "now" - as already outlined, this is too late to prevent this, and it's also significantly later than the original schedule envisaged for them.


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    #72
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    They are being trained and mentored.

    Indeed they are but not until recently and all of the drivers are not yet able to run services on their own which is why Irish Rail face a shortfall of staff in the next few weeks because of how long the dispute rumbled on for.

    The period they were not being mentored and sat around doing nothing meant Irish Rail had to spend huge amounts of money on overtime that they otherwise would not have needed to do so.

    If this dispute had have been solved ages ago Irish Rail would have more money in the bank, more staff and no need to cancel services to the public.


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    #73
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    They are being trained and mentored.

    = shutting the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late now


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    #74
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    marno21 wrote: »
    = shutting the door after the horse has bolted. It's too late now

    They still have the horse and jockey.


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    #75
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    cython wrote: »
    I think you missed an important word somewhere in your post, specifically the word "now" - as already outlined, this is too late to prevent this, and it's also significantly later than the original schedule envisaged for them.

    Have you been told its due to lack of drivers?


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    #76
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,593 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Have you been told its due to lack of drivers?

    Maybe they just read the first post in this thread?


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    #77
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    devnull wrote: »
    Maybe they just read the first post in this thread?

    Nothing official from Irish rail yet then.


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    #78
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    So while drivers are an issue, they have coped well until now. Are drivers refusing to work overtime since training has been forced on them or is it just annual holidays catching up.

    Spontaneous cancellations have only started creeping into the schedule and making an impact since the vote. Before then most were known in advance.
    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Nothing official from Irish rail yet then.

    Your just trolling now, Irish Rail will spin a lie in relation to cancellations.


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    #79
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    They still have the horse and jockey.

    Plenty of horses, just not enough jockeys.


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    #80
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Are drivers refusing to work overtime since training has been forced on them or is it just annual holidays catching up.

    Apparently even with an ambundance of OT IE are struggling to cover trains due to a massive shortage of drivers nationally.


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    #81
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,073 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Your just trolling now, Irish Rail will spin a lie in relation to cancellations.

    Cut out the back seat moderation.

    -- moderator


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    #82
    Working class heroes
    Registered Users Posts: 3,512 ✭✭✭Working class heroes


    GM228 wrote: »
    Plenty of horses, just not enough jockeys.

    Or whips.

    Racism is now hiding behind the cloak of Community activism.



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    #83
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    GM228 wrote: »
    Apparently even with an ambundance of OT IE are struggling to cover trains due to a massive shortage of drivers nationally.

    So has there been a lot of retirements, the service levels have not increased much over the last 5 years apart from PPT.


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    #84
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭thomasj


    I see that according to the journey planner, the 16:00hrs Connolly Sligo will only run as far as Mullingar monday-thursday from next week .

    Add to that the 16:30 Sligo Connolly Sunday service is not listed from next week.


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    #85
    tara83
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭tara83


    Has there been any communication yet of what's cancelled?


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    #86
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    thomasj wrote: »
    I see that according to the journey planner, the 16:00hrs Connolly Sligo will only run as far as Mullingar monday-thursday from next week .

    Add to that the 16:30 Sligo Connolly Sunday service is not listed from next week.

    16:00 to sligo is now Friday only.
    Up to the 25th of August.
    .


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    #87
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    tara83 wrote: »
    Has there been any communication yet of what's cancelled?

    Tomorrow i think.


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    #88
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    16.00 Connolly to Sligo to operate to Mullingar only (Monday to Thursday), operates as normal on a Friday and cancelled Saturday and Sunday.

    16.30 Sligo to Connolly (Sunday) cancelled.

    14.45 Connolly to Dundalk, 16.05 Dundalk to Connolly (Friday) cancelled.

    All off peak M3 shuttles (Monday to Friday) replaced by bus.

    07.05 Dundalk to Bray to operate to GCD only.

    No other cancellations sanctioned by the NTA.


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    #89
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    So has there been a lot of retirements, the service levels have not increased much over the last 5 years apart from PPT.

    Retirements, promotion etc.


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    #90
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Those cancellations are pretty reasonable over the summer months because numbers will be lower however numbers on M3 most be bad for them to allow a complete service suspension off peak.


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    #91
    nowaynever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 53 ✭✭nowaynever


    GM228 wrote: »
    Retirements, promotion etc.

    ....and demotions....


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