Tiny number of social units being built:

EdgeCase · 16-06-2018 09:26AM

Not only that but unaffordable housing and unsuitable housing is already having impacts on economic growth potential.

I know several companies who are having issues with staff retention and finding new hires because of the lack of availability of affordable housing in Dublin and Cork.

The issues being cited are both unaffordabliy and the fact that it is deemed acceptable there for multiple adults to share suburban family homes.

That's causing a lot of issues with people deciding to stay a year or two here and then conclude that there's a better quality of life back in France or Germany etc and move home. Or, you've Irish people opting to emigrate.

It's also coupled with issues like the relatively poor healthcare system here, particularly where you're most likely to first encounter it - a minor accident or sudden illness lands you in bedlam at a busy A&E.

The result of that is higher levels of churn in the likes of IT and finance companies and lots of unstable, lower paid contract jobs dominating aspects of FDI.

Meanwhile essential state services like health and education are becoming hard to recruit for. I hear really unhappy stories from nurses in Dublin and Cork on relatively average incomes who can't afford to adequately house themselves. The result of that is Irish trained nurses leave and overseas trained nurses stay for a year or two, get experience and leave.

We are absolutely undermining a large aspect of our own society and potential for development by allowing this situation to persist.

It's being driven by ideogoical notions that are about unwillingness to intervene in markets and also they "I'm alright jack" attitude of a generation who own property because they acquired it in another era and either benefited from mortgages that were inflated away to nothing in the 1970s and 80s or bought much more affordable homes in previous eras.

Ireland's changed for the better in many ways but put housing policy since the 1990s has been one area where we have gone backwards. The country now resembles the 1910s and 20s again in terms of housing issues.

Ever inflating house prices is not even possible in the context of ECB managed, stable, continental style monetary policy either. The Irish (and British) approach was historically high house prices and high inflation. So you bought high, mortgaged to your hilt and effectively softly defaulted by having inflation rapidly reduce your debt burden.

In stable Eurozone economics, if you borrow €500,000 you'll pay €500,000 minus a tiny bit of inflation but you'll never see anything like the 70s and 80s repeated again.

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 09:36AM

All hail our new leader, 'the market', 'the market', hail, hail!

bloodless_coup · 16-06-2018 09:40AM

Social housing should be built in somewhere like the northwest where cost of building and living is cheaper.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just throw a couple of thousand shacks and fence off the area to keep the inhabitants in.

Then ship off all the "homeless" on busses to thier camp.

Mongfinder General · 16-06-2018 09:53AM

doylefe wrote: »

Social housing should be built in somewhere like the northwest where cost of building and living is cheaper.

Doesn't have to be anything fancy, just throw a couple of thousand shacks and fence off the area to keep the inhabitants in.

Then ship off all the "homeless" on busses to thier camp.

Here’s the thing about social housing. Nobody wants it in their backyard. I’ve seen developments go up near me recently and their is uproar. And rightly so when you see some of the animals living there.

Dumping them up in Donegal will only create problems up there. However, I wouldn’t be against the idea. Those who really need a home will go.

Also those living in social housing should be paying a lot more than the rates they’re being charged right now.

Capt'n Midnight · 16-06-2018 09:54AM

AH answer to the housing shortage :

100's of new housing units built down in Cork

EdgeCase · 16-06-2018 10:10AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

All hail our new leader, 'the market', 'the market', hail, hail!

New?

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 10:33AM

EdgeCase wrote: »

New?

well its relative really, we re moving on from religious orders controlling us to just other things controlling us, at some stage, we must start believing in ourselves

Idbatterim · 16-06-2018 10:54AM

CruelCoin wrote: »

Everyone can afford a home. Everyone with a job can.

Just not where you want to be.

Shock horror that the words "prime location" actually have meaning now.

right. And you think just because local councilors want as little built in their area as possible, no mid rise affordable apartments, that’s it’s ok? We should just accept it? Get real!

Dravokivich · 16-06-2018 10:59AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.

Lets call a spade a spade here

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp5hpi/cp5hpi/hpi/

Persons in accommodation Male 3,914 Female 2,869 Total 6,783

Persons sleeping rough Male 104 Female 19 Total 123

There are less than 200 people sleeping rough in Irealnd. Most of these are due to drug/ alcohol addiction problems.

Most people that are "homeless" which is a further 4,000 since these 2016 Figures are people who have declared themselves "homeless" trying to skip to social housing lists.

The "Government" doesnt owe you a free house. I am sick of people who don't work, and expect everything handed to them out of the taxes of people who do.

Thanks for letting me know how I should sort my issue out. I already have a job. So should just buy a house...

... on 28k a year? While paying out on child care?

Eggs For Dinner · 16-06-2018 11:20AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And how do you get into your "own accommodation"? On footpaths and roads funded by taxes which the rest of us pay, or are you rich enough to have built all such roads and paths out of your own money without leeching off the hard-pressed taxpayers of this state? Why should we have to fund stuff you have that we don't benefit from?

And education, who has funded your education since primary school, the education which no doubt was vital in your ability to get a job? And healthcare - are you rich enough to own your own hospital with your own funded specialists on standby - or do you depend upon this state's taxpayers for A&E departments and everything else including the state-trained medical professionals (and most of the other stuff private healthcare uses)? Even if you are in a private healthcare scheme, does it not seem a bit sycophantic to be unable to access private healthcare without depending upon other people in the scheme to in effect subsidise you if you end up in hospital?

And so on ad infinitum. This simplistic "I pay my own way" Libertarian nonsense doesn't really stand up to scrutiny in the reality of our world.

Your examples are communal items available for every citizen to access and use, that's what taxes are for. You want a house? Work and pay for it like most people

Idbatterim · 16-06-2018 11:21AM

World_cup_bum wrote: »

I live in rural Ireland, it's boring a lot of the time but the house is big and was 140 k for a 5 bed, I can't afford to live in Dublin so I don't

It's that simple

the appalling rural and urban planning here is unacceptable!

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 11:24AM

World_cup_bum wrote: »

If everyone chose to be idle, welfare would disappear

majority of people want to work and in fact need to work, therefore they do

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 11:31AM

World_cup_bum wrote: »

I know that, was replying to the point about an invitation to join the welfare ranks

It's folly to however deny a large minority chose a life of welfare, travellers are a testiment to that fact

why do they 'chose' this?

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 11:34AM

World_cup_bum wrote: »

Who?

why do people 'chose' to be unemployed?

16-06-2018 11:37AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes because of pride, setting an example to their kids and been honest.
Basic things lacking in our “most vulnerable” class.

Precisely. Call it cultural capital, social capital or whatever. But even if I earned considerably less than I do, I'd rather have the comfort of the languages, music, university education, literature, world travel and all the rest than live rent-free in a council house in a filthy urban area where lack of respect and motivation undermine the good families and good kids there and in the local schools. Actually, that whole world is a perfect example of there being, in reality, no such thing as a free lunch. A "free house" there? Thanks, but no thanks.

Never for a minute do I feel envious of such parents. Such parents must have a very dark existence if they can feel comfortable bringing children up with their own example.

There are plenty of people in this society, however, who have all the cultural and social capital but are also parasites on our taxes. If I've the energy to waste on resentment, I would reserve it for Irish politicians like John Bruton who has been on an enormous pension from this state since the age of 34. 34, not 64 (after a lifetime of spouting an economically rightwing ideology, instructively enough). That is a far greater outrage than Josephine and her 20 kids all named John Joe living rent free in a castle in the arsehole of Longford (except for the kids, of course, for whom it is an ineffable travesty).

Wanderer78 · 16-06-2018 11:38AM

World_cup_bum wrote: »

Several reasons I imagine

It suits them

They can work in the black market as all traveller's do to some extent

They have plenty of political support

Being long term unemployed has no strong stigma in Ireland, not amongst the chattering classes, we celebrate " official vulnerable" types in Ireland

some research into unemployment is required, drag some politicians with you

16-06-2018 11:54AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes because of pride, setting an example to their kids and been honest.
Basic things lacking in our “most vulnerable” class.

Setting some example here! https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-housing-estate-standoff-over-mobile-home-471956.html

Cyrus · 16-06-2018 12:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Setting some example here! https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-housing-estate-standoff-over-mobile-home-471956.html

What someone parking a mobile home where they shouldn’t ?

end of the road · 16-06-2018 01:02PM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yes because of pride, setting an example to their kids and been honest.
Basic things lacking in our “most vulnerable” class.

or more likely it's because you will have more opportunities in life, the chance of promotion to a better job and more money for a start.

Cyrus wrote: »

Sorry you are deluded and it’s why you and those who think like you never get anywhere with this

he isn't deluded and it's not why those who think like him get nowhere, politics is

Cyrus wrote: »

It’s not possible for everyone to have what they want in a capital city , same here as it is in most other capital cities in the developed world

indeed it isn't, but by operating as we are, only a select few are able to have any kind of a life at all in a capital city, unlike most western countries. we follow the failed british model on lots of things rather then looking at other countries.

Olsky · 16-06-2018 01:17PM

Those who continue to take delight in blaming the lazy unemployed, the immigrants or the travellers are missing the point completely.
The issue is that the refusal to provide social housing allows the govt to justify the transfer of vast sums of money to private investors and other interests including the poverty industry.
The real losers are not the social underclass ye are taking such pleasure in attacking.
The real losers are those that have to pay far higher rents, taxes and property prices because of this policy.

EdgeCase · 16-06-2018 02:43PM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

well its relative really, we re moving on from religious orders controlling us to just other things controlling us, at some stage, we must start believing in ourselves

Sure the old 19th century mercantile types managed to mix the two (religion and sink or swim masked economics) together, added a bit of sectarianism and jingosim and justified famine conditions here.

Klonker · 16-06-2018 03:11PM

Olsky wrote: »

Those who continue to take delight in blaming the lazy unemployed, the immigrants or the travellers are missing the point completely.
The issue is that the refusal to provide social housing allows the govt to justify the transfer of vast sums of money to private investors and other interests including the poverty industry.
The real losers are not the social underclass ye are taking such pleasure in attacking.
The real losers are those that have to pay far higher rents, taxes and property prices because of this policy.

Tell us all how stupid we are again oh wise one.

KyussB · 16-06-2018 03:40PM

It's the same fucking arguments placed on every political/economic issue over the last decade - just minimally adjusted to aim at housing instead.

If people haven't realized that the economy and political environment are set up to fuck them in every respect, by now, then trying to bring that to peoples awareness is a lost cause.

You are permanently going to get the 'haves' (those with property, assets and political power), telling the 'have nots' (upcoming generations, those without much in the way of assets/property political power) that government can't use their power to help those being fucked by the political/economic system - that in fact the only way to solve the problem, is to use the government to reshape the economy and political environment, to funnel more money towards the 'haves' (and to relinquish control over the economy and politics to the 'haves', so they can reshape the economy in this manner, all by themselves).

Rinse. Repeat. Roll on one decade after the other of the same bullshit - repackaged in a slightly different form, depending on what point of the economic cycle we're at.

You keep voting in the same corrupt fuckers, and claiming they are not corrupt - what the fuck do you expect?

If, when you get old and well off enough to not have to worry about being fucked like this anymore, you start voting for people who favour your interests - even at the expense of upcoming generations - then you are an utter cunt, a despicable human being.

This country is full of them. They have complete social respectability. They are not stupid enough to push for this, without carefully spinning a narrative that they support the OPPOSITE, to avoid reputational harm. People are still fucking stupid enough, to think that this type of brigading/propaganda, doesn't go on on Boards all the fucking time - and that it doesn't affect the moderation of the site...

These interests are able to use subtle enough (i.e. barely disguised but more than enough to fool a pliable population) forms of attacks against the general public, through the political/economic system, that people are not at all congnizant of nor can everyday people get a grasp of - and they will keep on engaging in these silent attacks upon society, forever, until they are attacked in turn (preferably politically/economically), and given something to fear (the threat of losing their assets/property usually does it).

The people being negatively affected by it all have zero organization. They can't even have a clear discussion about it, in order to organize better - because of all the fucking propaganda surrounding the topic - that they are not even aware of, because they are so pliable/stupid.

Cyrus · 16-06-2018 04:34PM

KyussB wrote: »

It's the same fucking arguments placed on every political/economic issue over the last decade - just minimally adjusted to aim at housing instead.

If people haven't realized that the economy and political environment are set up to fuck them in every respect, by now, then trying to bring that to peoples awareness is a lost cause.

You are permanently going to get the 'haves' (those with property, assets and political power), telling the 'have nots' (upcoming generations, those without much in the way of assets/property political power) that government can't use their power to help those being fucked by the political/economic system - that in fact the only way to solve the problem, is to use the government to reshape the economy and political environment, to funnel more money towards the 'haves' (and to relinquish control over the economy and politics to the 'haves', so they can reshape the economy in this manner, all by themselves).

Rinse. Repeat. Roll on one decade after the other of the same bullshit - repackaged in a slightly different form, depending on what point of the economic cycle we're at.

You keep voting in the same corrupt fuckers, and claiming they are not corrupt - what the fuck do you expect?

If, when you get old and well off enough to not have to worry about being fucked like this anymore, you start voting for people who favour your interests - even at the expense of upcoming generations - then you are an utter cunt, a despicable human being.

This country is full of them. They have complete social respectability. They are not stupid enough to push for this, without carefully spinning a narrative that they support the OPPOSITE, to avoid reputational harm. People are still fucking stupid enough, to think that this type of brigading/propaganda, doesn't go on on Boards all the fucking time - and that it doesn't affect the moderation of the site...

These interests are able to use subtle enough (i.e. barely disguised but more than enough to fool a pliable population) forms of attacks against the general public, through the political/economic system, that people are not at all congnizant of nor can everyday people get a grasp of - and they will keep on engaging in these silent attacks upon society, forever, until they are attacked in turn (preferably politically/economically), and given something to fear (the threat of losing their assets/property usually does it).

The people being negatively affected by it all have zero organization. They can't even have a clear discussion about it, in order to organize better - because of all the fucking propaganda surrounding the topic - that they are not even aware of, because they are so pliable/stupid.

You should be able to make your point without resorting to that kind of language

So can I summarise that expletive laden rant to the man is out to get you? Or something to that effect?

andekwarhola · 16-06-2018 05:17PM

Whether or not people agree, there will always be a need for subsidised housing in some form or another. Not just for the unemployed, but the low waged.

The current situation where taxpayers money is being used to subsidise market level rents must surely be a less cost effective solution than investing in social housing.

ChikiChiki · 16-06-2018 06:04PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Completely agree with the OP. I have extensive experience in housing policy research and the only real solution is a return to large scale social housebuilding. Current policies favour landlords and existing outright owners and have utterly distorted the housing market and are an abject failure.

It's all about ideology - favour existing property owners to garner political support. Utterly cynical but predictable. The sooner Varadkar, Murphy et al and their neo-Thatcherite ideology are gone the better.

I loathe FF for what they did to the country during the last bubble and I always swore I'd never vote for them but I think they would at least do something better to tackle the housing crisis.

The current lot in power are spineless weasels content in preserving the status quo. They dont give a damn about those most in need of housing. Utter weasels.

Is this country just an economy or a society?

Economy obv. Most people are apathethic and thick as pig****.

Vulture funds have been cleaning up since at least 2013 whilst the have and have nots fight with each other.

Gob****es

Idbatterim · 16-06-2018 06:07PM

Kyussb, your post is excellent. ITs only become totally apparent to me over the last few years. Just the level of scum that the government are! It’s disgusting. These f**kers aren’t the solution, they are the problem!

17-06-2018 01:37AM

Cyrus wrote: »

You should be able to make your point without resorting to that kind of language

So can I summarise that expletive laden rant to the man is out to get you? Or something to that effect?

Cyrus
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dalkey, Dublin

hehe.

rosmoke · 17-06-2018 01:53AM

Why would someone who isn't working requires a brand new house?
Till you get back on your feet a room and a bathroom should be enough.
There are plenty people who work for nothing, give all their salary on rent and food, and they keep doing this and don't expect things come for free.

It's scandalous. Work and get nothing, don't work and complain you don't receive a brand new house for free.

end of the road · 17-06-2018 02:41AM

rosmoke wrote: »

Why would someone who isn't working requires a brand new house?

because they require a house to live in . they may not always get a brand new one if they are made an offer, it will be what is availible.

rosmoke wrote: »

Till you get back on your feet a room and a bathroom should be enough.

and a place to cook. so, may as well be a house or apartment depending on whether one is single or has a family.

rosmoke wrote: »

There are plenty people who work for nothing,

they need to join a union and they need to take their employer to a tribunal. unless one is doing voluntary work then a wage must be paid.

rosmoke wrote: »

There are plenty people who work for nothing, give all their salary on rent and food, and they keep doing this and don't expect things come for free.

not expecting things to come for free doesn't make us special or better then everyone else, i'm afraid.

rosmoke wrote: »

It's scandalous. Work and get nothing, don't work and complain you don't receive a brand new house for free.

work and get a wage. work and have prospects to get a better job and a higher standard of living. work and contribute to a better society. so no, you do not work and get nothing. also, it's not just non-working people who need affordible housing, a point which for some reason, keeps being missed by people.

Tiny number of social units being built:

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