Tiny number of social units being built:

Olsky

Listening to Minister Eoghan Murphy on Pat Kenny this morning and got really annoyed and angry at the lies and misinformation that he was coming out with. The policy of relying on private market to solve social housing shortage is an ideological position that has cost vast amounts of money and failed miserably. Yet he continues to stand by it and refuses to countenance any change
To actual number of social houses built last year was tiny. Less than 400 in a country our size.
Yet the Minister instead continues to talk about "social housing solutions " as being the answer.
These include paying exorbitant amounts to hotels to put up homeless families, paying private landlords for private rental properties (thereby reducing supply and driving up prices for those that want to rent privately) and competing with private house purchasers to buy houses from private developers ( thereby reducing supply and driving up prices from those trying to buy privately) and reclassification of those in need of social houses to make the statistics look better.
Maybe the only way for a change of direction is an election

Idbatterim

Over four years of talking. Many of my colleagues and friends are f*cked with this situation in Dublin. Over four years they’ve been talking! I’m not voting fg again, that’s for sure. I’m not talking about the homeless etc, the situation fit hard working people here is a disgrace! It’s thpically Irish, drastic action required years ago and they tinker around the edges. Suppose fg will try their minuscule income tax reduction truck in the budget, the cost of housing is a far bigger issue. You really wonder if a sf fg coalition would be better at this stage ...

odyssey06

How dare you. The minister commissioned a report and a very fancy powerpoint presentation. Plus I think he briefed against landlords and people in nursing homes, which took considerable moral courage to stand up to such vested interests.
You don't seriously expect him to do something? For shame!

It's a fúcking joke. Month after month we are given yet another story about how the government has used deflated figures to give the impression there is more building of houses going on than there actually is.

Here's the latest scandal:

New homes overstated by nearly 60%, CSO figures show: Fewer than 15,000 dwellings built in Republic last year, new figures reveal

If we had any sort of opposition at all, they would blast this consistently inept government out of the water based on its housing record.

Then again, when Sinn Féin is the largest political party on Dublin City Council, a council which is still leaving tons of derelict land untouched and which is now permitting dwarf-size apartments in Dublin, Sinn Féin is not in a position to lead the charge against any party's failure to provide housing.

Whether it's their record in government in 1928 or in 2018, Fine Gael in government is no friend of any sector but the wealthiest.

Olsky

Idbatterim wrote: »

, the situation fit hard working people here is a disgrace! It’s thpically Irish, drastic action required years ago and they tinker around the edges... the cost of housing is a far bigger issue. You really wonder if a sf fg coalition would be better at this stage ...

Or SF with FF. The "hard working people" however don't seem to realize that it is FGs and Eoghan Murphys ideological refusal to provide social housing that directly leads to high rents and high property prices for workers.

SEPT 23 1989

He must be working hard if the sleeves of his shirt are rolled up

Idbatterim

Olsky wrote: »

Or SF with FF. The "hard working people" however don't seem to realize that it is FGs and Eoghan Murphys ideological refusal to provide social housing that directly leads to high rents and high property prices for workers.

All those scumbags care about is power and their mates. Remove it from them. I’d love to see Varadkar removed as Taoiseach, he’s a clown. The biggest blow for him personally, would probably be the fall in the amount of blue thumbs he gets on social media... this coming as a previous fg voter.

A listener contacted one of the National radio stations today pointing out that in her area, Dunlaoghaire, I think, only 5 bedroom houses are being built. She’s mid 60’s and would love to downsize to a 2 or 3 bed home but none are being built. She also said that numerous others in her area have the same problem.

whisky_galore

Not worth while building to house ordinary joes. Luxury and student apartments are profitable enough though.

Idbatterim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A listener contacted one of the National radio stations today pointing out that in her area, Dunlaoghaire, I think, only 5 bedroom houses are being built. She’s mid 60’s and would love to downsize to a 2 or 3 bed home but none are being built. She also said that numerous others in her area have the same problem.

Yeah , this has been written about a lot. They want to downsize and many builders are opting to build houses , I’m assuming it’s simpler and more lucrative than apartments in those cases. It’s beyond any sort of a joke that we are still discussing this years into the crisis. If you’re fg or many of the older fg supporters, I’m sure it’s not a crisis, their wealth on paper is going up, sure f*ck everyone else ...

Mr. Incognito

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.


Lets call a spade a spade here

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp5hpi/cp5hpi/hpi/

Persons in accommodation Male 3,914 Female 2,869 Total 6,783

Persons sleeping rough Male 104 Female 19 Total 123

There are less than 200 people sleeping rough in Irealnd. Most of these are due to drug/ alcohol addiction problems.

Most people that are "homeless" which is a further 4,000 since these 2016 Figures are people who have declared themselves "homeless" trying to skip to social housing lists.

The "Government" doesnt owe you a free house. I am sick of people who don't work, and expect everything handed to them out of the taxes of people who do.

deletthis

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.

Gr8 B8 M8

pearcider

What do you expect from the blue shirts like honestly. They don't even pretend to give a fu$k about the poor. Even more so when sleazy varadkar in power. At least Kenny was good at pretending ! Alhough we are working against huge vested interests here namely the landlord class. I doubt the government would make any difference. The money controls the power.

Graces7

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.

:rolleyes:

Wheeliebin30

Things are only starting to happen in the last year, there is 6 billion of tax payers money been allocated for social housing in the next few years which I’m not happy about at all.

Sick of hearing spongers moaning about wanting this and that.

Pay for it yourself like most people.

whisky_galore

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Pay for it yourself like most people.

Thing is, fewer people are able to 'pay for it' themselves these days.

Idbatterim

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Things are only starting to happen in the last year, there is 6 billion of tax payers money been allocated for social housing in the next few years which I’m not happy about at all.

Sick of hearing spongers moaning about wanting this and that.

Pay for it yourself like most people.

What about the people on decent incomes who can’t affird housing? I agree with you about the wasters, but many people here Against social and affordable housing, would have a very different opinion if they were trying to buy or rent at current prices ...

Olsky

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.

You're not smart enough to realize what the scam and con is.

People is need of social housing are being provided with places to live.
The big con is that the refusal to build social housing means that the places they are being provided with are being taken away from those that want to rent or buy privately.
So the sucker and losers are not those that need social housing.
The idiotsbeing fooled by Minister Murphy and his social housing "solutions" are people like you

Wheeliebin30

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Things are only starting to happen in the last year, there is 6 billion of tax payers money been allocated for social housing in the next few years which I’m not happy about at all.

Sick of hearing spongers moaning about wanting this and that.

Pay for it yourself like most people.

There but for the grace of God..... one never knows when they might need to avail of help from the state. Social housing isn’t just for those dependent on social welfare payments. I seem to remember reading where Ruth Coppinger lives in a social housing apartment.

Mr. Incognito

Olsky wrote: »

You're not smart enough to realize what the scam and con is.


People is need of social housing are being provided with places to live.

The idiotsbeing fooled by Minister Murphy and his social housing "solutions" are people like you

Doesn't appear so. I dont need Minister Murphy. I work and pay for my own accomodation.

Perfectly happy to do so.

Olsky

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

there is 6 billion of tax payers money been allocated for social housing in the next few years which I’m not happy about at all..

That is the kind of misleading assestion that the Minister is conning people with. Very little of this 6 billion will be used to build social housing. The vast bulk of it will be direct wealth transfers into the pockets of private landlords, investors and developers.

BarryD2

Maybe local authorities also need to be holding onto social housing stock, not selling it onto tenants at discounted prices.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

A listener contacted one of the National radio stations today pointing out that in her area, Dunlaoghaire, I think, only 5 bedroom houses are being built. She’s mid 60’s and would love to downsize to a 2 or 3 bed home but none are being built. She also said that numerous others in her area have the same problem.

Plenty of houses in Dublin, many being occupied by 1 or 2 people in later stages of their lives with nowhere to downsize to. It's not a shortage of houses, it's a shortage of smaller properties that are suitable for older people.

Del2005

For all the people complaining about FG/FF what is the viable alternative?

pearcider wrote: »

What do you expect from the blue shirts like honestly. They don't even pretend to give a fu$k about the poor. Even more so when sleazy varadkar in power. At least Kenny was good at pretending ! Alhough we are working against huge vested interests here namely the landlord class. I doubt the government would make any difference. The money controls the power.

After what this government has done to private landlords I don't think they have much interest in them. The REITs are the only landlords they look after and when all the small landlords are driven out of the market, which the government has said it wants to do, then we'll see what happens to the rental market and it won't be good.

downtheroad

downtheroad wrote: »

Plenty of houses in Dublin, many being occupied by 1 or 2 people in later stages of their lives with nowhere to downsize to. It's not a shortage of houses, it's a shortage of smaller properties that are suitable for older people.

Another contributor to the show said that we should consider retirement villages. It seems that they are popular in USA, Aus and Germany.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

For all the people complaining about FG/FF what is the viable alternative?

Oh the other parties are all quite happy to sit in opposition, being "highly principled" and saying what needs to be done by FG/FF/someone else :rolleyes:

Richard Hillman

I have been saying this for a couple of years, all that FG has done is commission reports, perform studies, launched strategies etc. They haven't actually done actual things.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

downtheroad wrote: »

Plenty of houses in Dublin, many being occupied by 1 or 2 people in later stages of their lives with nowhere to downsize to. It's not a shortage of houses, it's a shortage of smaller properties that are suitable for older people.

Another contributor to the show said that we should consider retirement villages. It seems that they are popular in USA, Aus and Germany.

The problem here is that retirement villages in the likes of Florida or Sunshine Coast (Australia) are places that people actually want to retire to. I can't imagine the same being said for a retirement village in Leitrim.
However, I would suggest that every suburb in Dublin has space for small retirement centres to be built, if the local church was downsized as is happening in Finglas. Then retired people can stay in the suburb they have lived in for many years and aren't disrupted by moving out of their community. Sell their family sized house for a nice sum of money to enjoy their retirement.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/one-of-dublin-s-largest-catholic-churches-to-be-demolished-1.2961481

Conservatory

Remember that huge estate Leo is building in Kilmore/Santry.
About two three years ago.
Have they started digging the ground yet? Or even put up a bit of hoarding?

It was in the figures for houses he was building that year according to him.

It’s like an episode of the wire taught him politics.

Mr. Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Doesn't appear so. I dont need Minister Murphy. I work and pay for my own accomodation.

Perfectly happy to do so.

And how do you get into your "own accommodation"? On footpaths and roads funded by taxes which the rest of us pay, or are you rich enough to have built all such roads and paths out of your own money without leeching off the hard-pressed taxpayers of this state? Why should we have to fund stuff you have that we don't benefit from?

And education, who has funded your education since primary school, the education which no doubt was vital in your ability to get a job? And healthcare - are you rich enough to own your own hospital with your own funded specialists on standby - or do you depend upon this state's taxpayers for A&E departments and everything else including the state-trained medical professionals (and most of the other stuff private healthcare uses)? Even if you are in a private healthcare scheme, does it not seem a bit sycophantic to be unable to access private healthcare without depending upon other people in the scheme to in effect subsidise you if you end up in hospital?

And so on ad infinitum. This simplistic "I pay my own way" Libertarian nonsense doesn't really stand up to scrutiny in the reality of our world.

ARNOLD J RIMMER

The Government should be rolling out rent to buy houses

Payìng set rents which are deducted from the overall price

If you move out at any time while paying the set rent then the price of the house resets for the next people.

If you do not meet your obligations of paying the set rent then fast track eviction take place for the next tenant.

You must be in employment at xxxxxxxxx income to take part in the scheme.

Next level down

Emergency housing should be built for the only reason that it is temporary and on condition that people living there are actively trying to get employment. If it is proved you are not meeting your obligations within a certain time frame then there is also fast track evictions

Bottom level

The next level down is minamum standard housing who plan to do nothing for the society

Reap what you sow

Mr. Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

And how do you get into your "own accommodation"? On footpaths and roads funded by taxes which the rest of us pay, or are you rich enough to have built all such roads and paths out of your own money without leeching off the hard-pressed taxpayers of this state? Why should we have to fund stuff you have that we don't benefit from?

And education, who has funded your education since primary school, the education which no doubt was vital in your ability to get a job? And healthcare - are you rich enough to own your own hospital with your own funded specialists on standby - or do you depend upon this state's taxpayers for A&E departments and everything else including the state-trained medical professionals (and most of the other stuff private healthcare uses)? Even if you are in a private healthcare scheme, does it not seem a bit sycophantic to be unable to access private healthcare without depending upon other people in the scheme to in effect subsidise you if you end up in hospital?

And so on ad infinitum. This simplistic "I pay my own way" Libertarian nonsense doesn't really stand up to scrutiny in the reality of our world.

My tax pays for that.

Arent you proving your own contention.

I dont get my own roads, or hospital, or education.

Why then am I "entitled" to a free house?

Using this analogy people should be living in shared social housing.

beauf

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Doesn't appear so. I dont need Minister Murphy. I work and pay for my own accomodation.

Perfectly happy to do so.

The lack of social housing is driving the shortage of private housing and rentals, and the costs up for everyone including you...

Are you happy about that?

hawkwing

Doesn't matter how many 1000's of houses are built in Dublin as long as you have open borders. Build 300,000 then the rents go down briefly and more people will come to the country,then we need more houses as rents have gone back up--non-stop cycle until the economy goes backwards and everyone leaves then they are all worth nothing again (for a while).

Mr. Incognito

beauf wrote: »

The lack of social housing is driving the shortage of private housing, and the costs up for everyone including you...

Are you happy about that?

That's a false analogy.

The shortage of private housing has been driven by rent controls and lack of supply. INstead of renting private landlords put their properties on air bnb because they keep getting burned by tenants who pay no rent for 18 months and get away with it because the RTB protects them.

So the spongers are causing the lack or rental places driving up the costs for everyone else. INcluding me.

I'm not happy about that.

If you cannot afford to rent you have two options.

1. Increase your earning capacity by getting a job.

2. Move.

People who have intellecutal or disabilities should be prioritised. Not people who are able bodied, declare themselves homeless and moan about the lack of free houses.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

Unrestricted immigration is also having an effect.

Racist to say it though. :pac:

Olsky

beauf wrote: »

The lack of social housing is driving the shortage of private housing and rentals, and the costs up for everyone including you...

Exactly. And I would contend that is the foundation and purpose of the current policy.

Del2005

ARNOLD J RIMMER wrote: »

The Government should be rolling out rent to buy houses

Payìng set rents which are deducted from the overall price

If you move out at any time while paying the set rent then the price of the house resets for the next people.

If you do not meet your obligations of paying the set rent then fast track eviction take place for the next tenant.

You must be in employment at xxxxxxxxx income to take part in the scheme.

That's where the problem started when we sold off all the social housing. Social housing should not be a house for generations it should be returned to the pool when the tenant leaves either by moving or dieing, their children should have the same rights as any other person to get the house then. Rent to buy should not be done by the government.

Mr. Incognito

Olsky wrote: »

Exactly. And I would contend that is the foundation and purpose of the current policy.

So they cannot afford rent and yet they renting in the private market?

Does not compute.

Either they are renting and therefore do not require social housing or

they are not renting and therefore not in the private market.

ARNOLD J RIMMER

Del2005 wrote: »

That's where the problem started when we sold off all the social housing. Social housing should not be a house for generations it should be returned to the pool when the tenant leaves either by moving or dieing, their children should have the same rights as any other person to get the house then. Rent to buy should not be done by the government.

I edited while you were quoting me

Mr. Incognito

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Racist to say it though. :pac:

Because it is racist.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2017/

The number of immigrants to the State in the year to April 2017 is estimated to have increased by 2.8% from 82,300 to 84,600, while the number of emigrants declined over the same period, from 66,200 to 64,800. These combined changes have resulted in net inward migration for Ireland in 2017 (+19,800), the highest level of net inward migration since 2008. See table 1.

Irish nationals continue to experience net outward migration, although at a much lower level than in the previous year, falling from -8,800 to -3,400, while net inward migration among non-Irish nationals decreased from 25,000 to 23,200. See table 2.

The number of births in the period was 63,900 while the number of deaths was 30,800, resulting in a natural increase of the population of 33,100. See table 1.

The combined effect of natural increase and positive net migration resulted in an overall increase in the population of 52,900 bringing the population estimate to 4.79 million in April 2017. See table 1.

oneilla

How can there be a housing crisis when everyone but you is getting a free house and tonnes of free money from the poor taxpayer!? :eek:

Olsky

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So they cannot afford rent and yet they renting in the private market?

Does not compute.

.

That is the ideologically driven policy that the Minister is refusing to change from.
Refuse to provide social housing.
Pour vast amounts of money into the pockets of private landlords and investors instead.
It is called a social housing "solution"

end of the road

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you have a problem with social housing

Get a job and buy a house.


Lets call a spade a spade here

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp5hpi/cp5hpi/hpi/

Persons in accommodation Male 3,914 Female 2,869 Total 6,783

Persons sleeping rough Male 104 Female 19 Total 123

There are less than 200 people sleeping rough in Irealnd. Most of these are due to drug/ alcohol addiction problems.

Most people that are "homeless" which is a further 4,000 since these 2016 Figures are people who have declared themselves "homeless" trying to skip to social housing lists.

The "Government" doesnt owe you a free house. I am sick of people who don't work, and expect everything handed to them out of the taxes of people who do.

1. many if not most people struggling due to the housing issue have jobs. this includes a number of those who declared themselves homeless.
2. the banks are (rightly) not giving out mortgages like sweets to anyone any more. dispite having a job, lots of people aren't going to fit the criteria to be given a mortgage.
3. the wages in many jobs aren't able to keep up with the cost of living including rising house prices.
4. the people who are expecting everything for free are very likely unemployable and are really irrelevant to this discussion.
so saying garra job and buy a house rabel rabel doesn't deal with reality, i'm afraid. it's deflection tbh.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Doesn't appear so. I dont need Minister Murphy. I work and pay for my own accomodation.

Perfectly happy to do so.

as does everyone to a greater or lesser extent. except the house prices are rising and the incomes aren't keeping up, so more people are ending up in state subsidized accommodation because government aren't tackling the cost of living.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

My tax pays for that.

Arent you proving your own contention.

I dont get my own roads, or hospital, or education.

Why then am I "entitled" to a free house?

Using this analogy people should be living in shared social housing.

there are no "free" houses.

end of the road

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

That's a false analogy.

it really isn't. it's reality. a shortage of something, with more wanting that something, means prices go up.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The shortage of private housing has been driven by rent controls and lack of supply. INstead of renting private landlords put their properties on air bnb because they keep getting burned by tenants who pay no rent for 18 months and get away with it because the RTB protects them.

So the spongers are causing the lack or rental places driving up the costs for everyone else. INcluding me.

I'm not happy about that.

the effect that issue has on prices is nothing near as much as the shortage of houseing in the first place has though. the RTB does not protect tenants who break their agreements. i have never heard of such happening. the rent controls are to try and stop the prices from rising (all though again they are simply papering over the cracks) and to try and stave off having to build houses.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

If you cannot afford to rent you have two options.

1. Increase your earning capacity by getting a job.[/QUOTE]


2. Move.[/QUOTE]

as explained, most of the people struggling due to the housing issue have jobs. upskill or get another job isn't an answer as depending on circumstances it's not viable. the same with moving, that's often not financially viable, or viable due to other reasons. so again, your suggestions are simplistic and are unable to solve the problem.

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

So they cannot afford rent and yet they renting in the private market?

Does not compute.

Either they are renting and therefore do not require social housing or

they are not renting and therefore not in the private market.

it computes. they are either.
1. able to afford the rent, but are at the stage where they are one increase or some other incident away from being unable to afford it. or,
2. they are social tenants who are being part subsidized in a private rental accommodation, who are still renting in the private rental market but not at market rates due to their income.
the issue isn't simply about social housing but affordible housing for buyers and renters as well.

pearcider

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Because it is racist.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2017/

Actually your estimates show it's a huge issue. Almost half the new people in Ireland per year are immigrants. This accounts for at least half the housing crisis. Smart countries like Singapore and Switzerland don't allow this. Of course the pro immigration agenda is essential for driving down wages and increasing profitability. No mention of the tremendous pressure it puts on our infrastructure, schools and social and health services. Your own link says only 55% of the immigrants have a job. So who is paying for them?

Wheeliebin30

end of the road wrote: »

1. many if not most people struggling due to the housing issue have jobs. this includes a number of those who declared themselves homeless.
2. the banks are (rightly) not giving out mortgages like sweets to anyone any more. dispite having a job, lots of people aren't going to fit the criteria to be given a mortgage.
3. the wages in many jobs aren't able to keep up with the cost of living including rising house prices.
4. the people who are expecting everything for free are very likely unemployable and are really irrelevant to this discussion.
so saying garra job and buy a house rabel rabel doesn't deal with reality, i'm afraid. it's deflection tbh.



as does everyone to a greater or lesser extent. except the house prices are rising and the incomes aren't keeping up, so more people are ending up in state subsidized accommodation because government aren't tackling the cost of living.



there are no "free" houses.

When you are in receipt of money from the state and you use that money to pay your 30 euro a week to the council well yes it is a free house.


Look, there is nothing fair about someone paying a mortgage on a house of 400k, getting up every morning getting home late from work, missing kids bedtime, while someone next door pays 40 euro a week and sleeps in while their neighbour goes to work to pay both their morgtages.

Fair society the left keep screaming for? Pull the other one.

ChikiChiki

Del2005 wrote: »

For all the people complaining about FG/FF what is the viable alternative?




After what this government has done to private landlords I don't think they have much interest in them. The REITs are the only landlords they look after and when all the small landlords are driven out of the market, which the government has said it wants to do, then we'll see what happens to the rental market and it won't be good.

There simply is no viable alternative and thats why we are ****ed now and for the future. Both parties have a reactive mindset instead of being proactive. An absolute shambles. FG and FF full to the brim of self interested greedy twats who do not put the interests of those they govern for as a priority.

CruelCoin

Idbatterim wrote: »

What about the people on decent incomes who can’t affird housing? I agree with you about the wasters, but many people here Against social and affordable housing, would have a very different opinion if they were trying to buy or rent at current prices ...

Everyone can afford a home. Everyone with a job can.

Just not where you want to be.

Shock horror that the words "prime location" actually have meaning now.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

That's where the problem started when we sold off all the social housing. Social housing should not be a house for generations it should be returned to the pool when the tenant leaves either by moving or dieing, their children should have the same rights as any other person to get the house then. Rent to buy should not be done by the government.

Another great policy imported by an Irish government from Thatcher's Britain and its "privatise everything!" ideology. The idea being if a social housing recipient can buy out their house at a steep discount they are more likely to be very grateful to the established political party and become a conservative voter.

Wheeliebin30

Let them eat Hake wrote: »

They should look at phasing out the billions of euros worth of social housing in Dublin city centre and relocating people elsewhere. It's crazy to think people are given free houses overlooking the Liffey around Lombard st. There are blocks of flats just off St Stephen's Green ffs. It's unfair that people get these houses when I and everyone else have to work their bollocks off to pay a mortgage or rent something and commute into the City Centre. Sell the Social Housing land in the city centre and put the money into building social housing for a fraction of the price elsewhere.

How on earth do you get one of these places in town actually?

Go “homeless”