Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Squidgy Black · 14-06-2018 10:05AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If it was something like that with a specific time frame I'd imagine Ulster would have temporarily released him if they knew he would be back by November (they were prepared to wait until January for MacFarland).

But in the same vein, at the time he may not have known if he was definitely going to be back by November, and didn't want to commit to it.

14-06-2018 10:11AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Right. By the same token, if he just wanted to go to La Rochelle, he would have just gone to La Rochelle.

The least likely scenario, imo, is one where he's lied to Ulster for no reason at all to manufacture this move. And that's what he's being accused of.

The most likely scenario is that he misled Ulster rugby so as to get released immediately to a club that is at home and so he gave a reason associated with that location. When La Rochelle heard rumours he was considering a move they gave him the kitchen sink.

The reason I say misled is that I think it's more likely that whatever he told Ulster was significant enough for them to take a compassionate position - but ultimately not sufficient enough to keep Gibbs home for more than a few months which I think Ulster would have worked around.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that is my read of the scenario. He wanted out asap, the club he was engaged with was from home which gave him scope to use an excuse that is difficult to deny. Then a better offer came in and because the reason for the return home wasn't what he might have told Ulster it was a no brainer for him to consider it. If he was prepared at that stage to stay in the northern hemipshere then why not stay at Ulster.

The reason La Rochelle didn't realise he was on the market until rumours surfaced is probably because Gibbs only reached out to clubs where he had confidants - like the place he spent 7 years previously.

Again cynical - but it adds up closest to /100 for me

Edit: Just to add this - the reason for my rationalisation is the gap between when it was announced he was leaving Ulster and when he was spotted at La Rochelle. I don't know what could have changed within that window and he hadn't even left Ulster at that point. His subsequent evasiveness when questioned at interview painted the above picture in my mind. If he was prepared to stay in the Northern hemisphere at that stage why not stay at Ulster.

irishbucsfan · 14-06-2018 10:16AM

Why would he bother misleading Ulster? He could have gone home at the exact same time anyway regardless of their "compassion". He stayed until the end of the season.

Doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Yeah_Right · 14-06-2018 10:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The most likely scenario is that he misled Ulster rugby so as to get released immediately to a club that is at home and so he gave a reason associated with that location. When La Rochelle heard rumours he was considering a move they gave him the kitchen sink.

The reason I say misled is that I think it's more likely that whatever he told Ulster was significant enough for them to take a compassionate position - but ultimately not sufficient enough to keep Gibbs home for more than a few months which I think Ulster would have worked around.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that is my read of the scenario. He wanted out asap, the club he was engaged with was from home which gave him scope to use an excuse that is difficult to deny. Then a better offer came in and because the reason for the return home wasn't what he might have told Ulster it was a no brainer for him to consider it. If he was prepared at that stage to stay in the northern hemipshere then why not stay at Ulster.

The reason La Rochelle didn't realise he was on the market until rumours surfaced is probably because Gibbs only reached out to clubs where he had confidants - like the place he spent 7 years previously.

Again cynical - but it adds up closest to /100 for me

Edit: Just to add this - the reason for my rationalisation is the gap between when it was announced he was leaving Ulster and when he was spotted at La Rochelle. I don't know what could have changed within that window and he hadn't even left Ulster at that point. His subsequent evasiveness when questioned at interview painted the above picture in my mind. If he was prepared to stay in the Northern hemisphere at that stage why not stay at Ulster.

You might be right. My theory is that he realised what a basket case of a club Ulster had become and he wanted out. The deal was they release him on "compassionate" grounds and he doesn't tell the media whats going on behind the scenes.

Former Former · 14-06-2018 10:28AM

They could all be true;

- He didn't fancy staying at Ulster - could you blame him?
- There really were/are family issues - probably applies to any 41-year old man living on the far side of the world from his wider family
- La Rochelle offered him a truckload of cash - who knows?

None of the above are mutually exclusive.

But if the La Rochelle deal was done when he jacked it in with Ulster in January, he wouldn't have needed to visit La Rochelle two days before the Ospreys play-off, so I don't think there was some dastardly master plan involved.

irishbucsfan · 14-06-2018 10:29AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You might be right. My theory is that he realised what a basket case of a club Ulster had become and he wanted out. The deal was they release him on "compassionate" grounds and he doesn't tell the media whats going on behind the scenes.

If Gibbes has the same notice period as all the other Irish coaches seem to have, then he didn't ever need to be released on compassionate grounds.

He just needed to hand in notice and then leave at the end of the season.

Yeah_Right · 14-06-2018 10:57AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If Gibbes has the same notice period as all the other Irish coaches seem to have, then he didn't ever need to be released on compassionate grounds.

He just needed to hand in notice and then leave at the end of the season.

True. Maybe Ulster gave him a golden handshake if he agreed to "compassionate" reasons story.

molloyjh · 14-06-2018 11:36AM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

True. Maybe Ulster gave him a golden handshake if he agreed to "compassionate" reasons story.

This makes the most sense to me. He clearly didn't have the La Rochelle deal in place when he left. And even if he did, he could have just done a Pat Lam on it. As IBF said, he had time to serve his notice period up to the end of the season. There really wasn't any need for him to come up with some big scheme to dupe Ulster Rugby.

I think what's far more realistic is that Les Kiss brought Gibbs to Ulster. Having seen the state Ulster was in and the reaction to Kiss that ultimately saw Kiss quit, I'd say he decided he wasn't willing to risk hanging about. You can understand that. But when he went to Ulster to hand in his notice they figured they couldn't have their DoR and Head Coach both quit in the space of a few weeks. So they asked him to make up some sort of excuse to limit the damage.

I mean sure, there could be a family emergency back home, but I doubt it. His statement at the time sounded more like him just wanting to go home. I'd say he just wanted out and Ulster couldn't afford the PR storm of having their 2 most senior coaches (and the only ones with any real experience) both resign in such quick succession.

awec · 14-06-2018 11:48AM

It had nothing to do with Kiss getting the boot. He was going anyway.

He told Ulster before he arrived that he might not see out the year, and then he was sold a complete lemon which made the decision a bit easier.

bilston · 14-06-2018 11:58AM

So Gibbes voluntarily broke his contract and Ulster rewarded him with a golden handshake? Why on earth would they do that?

Anyway as I say I'm not bothered. He didn't want to be here for whatever reason and now he has gone. Where he has gone to is irrelevant. Good luck to him.

Ulster move on...hopefully...

molloyjh · 14-06-2018 01:28PM

bilston wrote: »

So Gibbes voluntarily broke his contract and Ulster rewarded him with a golden handshake? Why on earth would they do that?

Anyway as I say I'm not bothered. He didn't want to be here for whatever reason and now he has gone. Where he has gone to is irrelevant. Good luck to him.

Ulster move on...hopefully...

Maybe not a golden handshake, but without any issues. They could have insisted he stay on for the full 6 months (that would have brought him up to the start of September wouldn't it?). He could have helped in a transition. Or given Ulster an actual head coach through pre-season. Either way I think the general jist is that he didn't try and shaft Ulster when he got the La Rochelle offer. He was gone before that ever came up. And the "family reasons" line was probably just to spare Ulsters blushes.

molloyjh · 14-06-2018 01:28PM

awec wrote: »

It had nothing to do with Kiss getting the boot. He was going anyway.

He told Ulster before he arrived that he might not see out the year, and then he was sold a complete lemon which made the decision a bit easier.

Really? Where did you hear this? Why would Ulster bring in a guy who was potentially going to be gone in less than a year?

Buer · 14-06-2018 01:30PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Really? Where did you hear this? Why would Ulster bring in a guy who was potentially going to be gone in less than a year?

'Cause Ulster.

awec · 14-06-2018 01:44PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Really? Where did you hear this? Why would Ulster bring in a guy who was potentially going to be gone in less than a year?

Before Gibbes was signed he told Ulster that he'd have to go home at Christmas and depending on circumstances might have to head home before the end of the season.

My guess is Ulster and the IRFU decided it was still worth signing him.

irishbucsfan · 14-06-2018 01:46PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Maybe not a golden handshake, but without any issues. They could have insisted he stay on for the full 6 months (that would have brought him up to the start of September wouldn't it?). He could have helped in a transition. Or given Ulster an actual head coach through pre-season. Either way I think the general jist is that he didn't try and shaft Ulster when he got the La Rochelle offer. He was gone before that ever came up. And the "family reasons" line was probably just to spare Ulsters blushes.

As far as I know he actually gave notice in January. Might be wrong. So it would have brought him up to July.

They still could have insisted he work it though, possibly

molloyjh · 14-06-2018 02:58PM

awec wrote: »

Before Gibbes was signed he told Ulster that he'd have to go home at Christmas and depending on circumstances might have to head home before the end of the season.

My guess is Ulster and the IRFU decided it was still worth signing him.

So the "family reasons" may well be completely legit so?

14-06-2018 03:35PM

I only see the usual conspiracy theorists on reddit maundering on about how evil and dastardly Gibbes is. Everyone else seems to just view it as unfortunate but unplanned.

He still plans on coaching Waikato in the Mitre cup up until October/November, right?

Paul Smeenus · 14-06-2018 04:51PM

Why why why why why who cares?

He's gone,and we have Dan McFarland coming. Have you seen the improvements in the Scottish forwards in the last few years? This could - should be the best coaching ticket we've had. A few years rebuilding, and we are bound for glory.

awec · 14-06-2018 04:54PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Why why why why why who cares?

He's gone,and we have Dan McFarland coming. Have you seen the improvements in the Scottish forwards in the last few years? This could - should be the best coaching ticket we've had. A few years rebuilding, and we are bound for glory.

A few Thursday afternoon pints Paul?

Paul Smeenus · 14-06-2018 04:59PM

Oh I wish.

stephen_n · 14-06-2018 06:47PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Why why why why why who cares?

He's gone,and we have Dan McFarland coming. Have you seen the improvements in the Scottish forwards in the last few years? This could - should be the best coaching ticket we've had. A few years rebuilding, and we are bound for glory.

That’s a very positive outlook from an Ulster fan, it’s confusing Awec.

Shefwedfan · 14-06-2018 07:15PM

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Why why why why why who cares?

He's gone,and we have Dan McFarland coming. Have you seen the improvements in the Scottish forwards in the last few years? This could - should be the best coaching ticket we've had. A few years rebuilding, and we are bound for glory.

When is McFarland actually starting in Ulster?

Former Former · 14-06-2018 07:30PM

I'd like to know the real reason Gibbes left because if it was something to do with Ulster I'd like to know if the underlying problem is resolved.

But of course we won't find out, would be interesting all the same.

Paul Smeenus · 14-06-2018 07:54PM

It is impossible to know. These are real people with real lives. We had one extremely talented signing who came and left again, giving unconvincing reasons, because he got a bit over-familiar with some local lasses and his wife was adamant that they move on.

Rush was supposed to come to Ulster from Cardiff for a similar reason, and then he split up with his partner, so changed his mind and stayed. We have a tendency to forget these people have the same amount of pandemonium in their lives everyone does.

bilston · 15-06-2018 11:16PM

Serious question for my fellow Ulster fans, are you as excited as usual about watching Ireland later on against Australia given there isn't a single Ulster player starting?

I'm not, I hate to say it but I don't feel like I have as much connection to the team as I normally do. I still want Ireland to win and I'm not criticising the selection, I'd never want a player picked just because of where he is or she is from (I suspect Best, Henderson and Stockdale would all start if it were a GS decider tomorrow anyway). But tomorrow there is definitely less buzz about watching Ireland for me.

Paul Smeenus · 15-06-2018 11:51PM

bilston wrote: »

Serious question for my fellow Ulster fans, are you as excited as usual about watching Ireland later on against Australia given there isn't a single Ulster player starting?

I'm not, I hate to say it but I don't feel like I have as much connection to the team as I normally do. I still want Ireland to win and I'm not criticising the selection, I'd never want a player picked just because of where he is or she is from (I suspect Best, Henderson and Stockdale would all start if it were a GS decider tomorrow anyway). But tomorrow there is definitely less buzz about watching Ireland for me.

Honestly? Yes.

Sport is divided into teams based on geography, for the most part. I don't particularly believe in nations - it's all an arbitrary division of people. So you either reject that arbitrariness or embrace it.

I will throw my weight behind my team tomorrow. Whether it's the team of my island, my province, my country, my neighbourhood, my hemisphere, my continent - whatever. I will watch it and am looking forward to it.

If there's one thing people from Northern Ireland understand in a way that no-one from the South or Britain can understand, it's the flexibility and mutability of identity. I'm all for it. These guys are my guys - until they're playing my guys.

RAKM · 16-06-2018 08:30AM

I agree with you lads. I'm from Terenure/Leinster/Ireland/other 6 nations when it comes to who I cheer for. I remember back to a Lions tour in the early 90s when Nick Popplewell was our only contender for selection and thinking if he doesn't get picked I prob won't watch.

salmocab · 16-06-2018 08:45AM

RAKM wrote: »

I agree with you lads. I'm from Terenure/Leinster/Ireland/other 6 nations when it comes to who I cheer for. I remember back to a Lions tour in the early 90s when Nick Popplewell was our only contender for selection and thinking if he doesn't get picked I prob won't watch.

You can’t agree with both of them as they didn’t agree with each other

MJohnston · 16-06-2018 09:29AM

I'd be a lot more excited about these Australia matches if they weren't on Sky.

jacothelad · 16-06-2018 10:03AM

bilston wrote: »

Serious question for my fellow Ulster fans, are you as excited as usual about watching Ireland later on against Australia given there isn't a single Ulster player starting?

I'm not, I hate to say it but I don't feel like I have as much connection to the team as I normally do. I still want Ireland to win and I'm not criticising the selection, I'd never want a player picked just because of where he is or she is from (I suspect Best, Henderson and Stockdale would all start if it were a GS decider tomorrow anyway). But tomorrow there is definitely less buzz about watching Ireland for me.

I think we are suffering from rugby fatigue. Ulster have had an emotionally draining and torrid season. i need a break from the relative failure. Things aren't looking much better for next season given the fact there aren't enough players at Ravenhill to make a squad, never mind a competitive one. Leinster and Ireland on the other hand have given us emotional highs. I want Ireland to win but can't seem to work up much enthusiasm over the outcome. I have always thought that Aus would win all 3 games only because Ireland's main players have had a hell of a season and can't perform at that level endlessly.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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