Referee abuse

Shelflife · 10-06-2018 11:28pm #1

Given the shenanigans lately of members of the management teams running up to abuse officials after a game and the fact that referees are now getting Garda escorts off the pitch, how long will it be before a ref will be physically attcked on live TV ?

Given the abuse that's being dished out to them as well I'd say it won't be long before there's a shortage of refs in both codes but more so in football.

Unless the authorities crack down big time on this and do so very soon a huge can of worms will be opened up.

namloc1980 · 10-06-2018 11:40pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Given the shenanigans lately of members of the management teams running up to abuse officials after a game and the fact that referees are now getting Garda escorts off the pitch, how long will it be before a ref will be physically attcked on live TV ?

Given the abuse that's being dished out to them as well I'd say it won't be long before there's a shortage of refs in both codes but more so in football.

Unless the authorities crack down big time on this and do so very soon a huge can of worms will be opened up.

Louth versus Meath in 2010. Referee assaulted.

Happy4all · 10-06-2018 11:43pm

Being going on for decades, nothing new about it.

patsyrockem · 11-06-2018 12:08am

Diarmuid Connolly got a serious suspension last year for a relatively minor offence, don't get me wrong it was not right and he was made an example of. But the carry on of Davy Fitz for a number of years has gone on unpunished, the abuse of linesmen and fourth officials has been awful. The referees and umpires are always in the firing line but it's a tough job and not too many volunteers looking to do it, yet they never get any credit for doing a good job. The respect referees are treated with in rugby is taught from a very young age and no reason why this couldn't be implicated in Gaelic games. Respect!!

Motivator · 11-06-2018 12:16am

Well when player’s seasons are on the line and manager’s jobs are on the line the very least that is expected is that the officials, who are appointed to the match, are able to do the job they are responsible for.

The Waterford v Tipperary game last Sunday in Limerick, the inability of the referee and his umpires to do their job properly has cost Waterford’s players, management and Co. Board dearly. The actions of a referee, who failed fitness tests THREE times this season, has cost Waterford dearly. Our year is now over partly due to the poor performance of a referee who was deemed unfit to do his job by Croke Park on three occasions. He got his place on the referees panel for this season by “passing” a test in mid May. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

bloodless_coup · 11-06-2018 12:54am

On the Sunday Game they were talking about how the respect shown to the referee in Rugby should be brought into the Gaa.

Thing is the referees in Rugby are usually pretty competent and at the highest level have lots of technology aids.

Gaa refs are more often than not downright terrible, and deserve no respect.

They need to professionalise referees in the Gaa. There's plenty of money in the organisation. The levels of commitment and time given by players and management and fans, and for it all to be wasted by one man in the middle making terrible calls is not right.

Limestone Cowboy · 11-06-2018 1:29am

patsyrockem wrote: »

Diarmuid Connolly got a serious suspension last year for a relatively minor offence, don't get me wrong it was not right and he was made an example of. But the carry on of Davy Fitz for a number of years has gone on unpunished, the abuse of linesmen and fourth officials has been awful. The referees and umpires are always in the firing line but it's a tough job and not too many volunteers looking to do it, yet they never get any credit for doing a good job. The respect referees are treated with in rugby is taught from a very young age and no reason why this couldn't be implicated in Gaelic games. Respect!!

It's epidemic in the gaa to be honest. Just yesterday we played a division 5 league football game and the opposition manager spent the whole game abusing his own players, our players, the referee and our management. Actually the worst case I have ever seen and there wasn't a dirty blow in the whole game from either side. Ref never said a word to him when he should have told him to shut up or leave early on. We were called every sort of knackers, apes, simpletons, scumbags, tinkers, clowns etc constantly for the full game along with various threats of him coming on to the field "to kick the sh1t out of us". Refs should respect themselves and the players more than to tolerate that carry on. Takes the enjoyment out of playing.

Poor_old_gill · 11-06-2018 7:42am

They need to make a few changes here:

1) a second ref- 1 per half
2) hawkeye at every stadium
3) clear definition of the tackle rules
4) proper umpires & linesmen who know the rules
5) train refs to deal with high pressure decisions

Until then- the standard of officiating will remain a farce and every once in a while people's emotions will boil over

Mahony0509 · 11-06-2018 8:06am

There wouldn’t be any issues if they were any good at refereeing. Some of them are pathetic, lets be honest.

Torcaill · 11-06-2018 8:17am

Motivator wrote: »

Well when player’s seasons are on the line and manager’s jobs are on the line the very least that is expected is that the officials, who are appointed to the match, are able to do the job they are responsible for.

The Waterford v Tipperary game last Sunday in Limerick, the inability of the referee and his umpires to do their job properly has cost Waterford’s players, management and Co. Board dearly. The actions of a referee, who failed fitness tests THREE times this season, has cost Waterford dearly. Our year is now over partly due to the poor performance of a referee who was deemed unfit to do his job by Croke Park on three occasions. He got his place on the referees panel for this season by “passing” a test in mid May. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

manager’s jobs are on the line Not as if they are getting paid for it!!!!

he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. So every player who misplaces a pass is absolutely entitled to receive abuse, every manager who makes a wrong call, every maor caman who is too slow getting a replacement hurl out to a player - all are free game to abuse. Get a grip!!!

C__MC · 11-06-2018 8:19am

Needs to be like the Premier League where refs can be dropped for poor peformances

bucketybuck · 11-06-2018 8:20am

Motivator wrote: »

Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse.

This seems to be the consensus in this thread.

And its absolutely moronic.

Torcaill · 11-06-2018 8:22am

C__MC wrote: »

Needs to be like the Premier League where refs can be dropped for poor peformances

It is and they are!!

DONTMATTER · 11-06-2018 8:38am

Refereeing standards obviously need to be improved but I can't see that happening if they continue to receive abuse in every single game!
I say this because there are people out there who'd make great referees but why would they do it? Just to get vitriol thrown at them every weekend.

downthemiddle · 11-06-2018 11:55am

doylefe wrote: »

Gaa refs are more often than not downright terrible, and deserve no respect.

Have you an alternative suggestion? No refs perhaps!

d'Oracle · 11-06-2018 12:06pm

DONTMATTER wrote: »

Refereeing standards obviously need to be improved but I can't see that happening if they continue to receive abuse in every single game!
I say this because there are people out there who'd make great referees but why would they do it? Just to get vitriol thrown at them every weekend.

Absolutely.
Also, do people not realise that you need a ref to play the game?

bruschi · 11-06-2018 1:17pm

Motivator wrote: »

Well when player’s seasons are on the line and manager’s jobs are on the line the very least that is expected is that the officials, who are appointed to the match, are able to do the job they are responsible for.

The Waterford v Tipperary game last Sunday in Limerick, the inability of the referee and his umpires to do their job properly has cost Waterford’s players, management and Co. Board dearly. The actions of a referee, who failed fitness tests THREE times this season, has cost Waterford dearly. Our year is now over partly due to the poor performance of a referee who was deemed unfit to do his job by Croke Park on three occasions. He got his place on the referees panel for this season by “passing” a test in mid May. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

didnt want to address this repeated point in the county thread, but this is the greatest load of rubbish ever. Waterford, leading by 11 points with less than 20 minutes go, end up drawing a game yet the only person who "absolutely is entitled to receive abuse" is the ref? For a mistake the umpire made that cost Waterford 3 points. Yet after this mistake was made, a further 15 minutes of game time was played, but yet it all hinged on this one single error made by the umpire and it should be deemed that people are "entitled" to abuse a referee.

It's about time teams, managers, players, fans cop on that referees for the most part dont decide games. Take the Meath game. A point up into extra time, game in their hands, and they are so naive to let numerous Tyrone players free who end up levelling. Absolutely, the ref made a huge error at the very end and potentially cost them a draw (dont let the fact escape anyone that their free taker was sent off and they still would need to score it to level).

Similarly Wexford a few weeks back. Deep into injury time, the ref says 30 seconds left. Wexford work the ball up the field and win a penalty. After a further minute or so, they take the point, with everyone expecting the final whistle on resumption. But no, the ref plays on, utterly naive defending, and Laois work the ball up and equalise. Laois are now in the Leinster final, Wexford are out altogether. Even Louth. Free comes in, if their midfielder catches it instead of fumbling it, game over. Granted, it was a horrendous mistake too, but even so, they had their own opportunity to win that game without referee interference.

It was in their own hands, in spite of the ref. And this is the case in most games. It doesnt excuse the refs making mistakes, but it absolutely does not entitle people to abuse them. No one should be entitled to abuse someone.

Dyr · 11-06-2018 1:39pm

Would it be too much for the GAA to do something about the level of officiating?

Or they can just close their eyes, cover their ears and repeat the mantra "give respect, get respect" until it all goes away

jmayo · 11-06-2018 2:33pm

Limestone Cowboy wrote: »

It's epidemic in the gaa to be honest. Just yesterday we played a division 5 league football game and the opposition manager spent the whole game abusing his own players, our players, the referee and our management.

Well at least he was consistent.

Shelflife wrote: »

Given the shenanigans lately of members of the management teams running up to abuse officials after a game and the fact that referees are now getting Garda escorts off the pitch, how long will it be before a ref will be physically attcked on live TV ?

Given the abuse that's being dished out to them as well I'd say it won't be long before there's a shortage of refs in both codes but more so in football.

Unless the authorities crack down big time on this and do so very soon a huge can of worms will be opened up.

The thing is the players, the management, the backroom staff are as good as professional at this stage, particularly at higher level of both intercounty and club.
It has gotten like Tennis when McEnroe used to let loose at officials and umpires who were still part of the old boys amateur network when the players were actually professional.

Today top players and indeed staff dedicate huge amounts of their time and put their lives on hold for most of the year.
Then their effort is all for nought as some eejit makes a terribly wrong decision.
And it isn't just spur of the moment stuff either, it is often goal mouth stuff with two or three officials watching on.

For a start umpires should not be selected because they are mates with the ref and they should be even referees or ex referees.

The situation that occurred in Limerick two weeks back was a joke and meant Waterford were robbed of a win.
It reminded of the famous rugby try by a certain Meath player a few years back to win Leinster title.

I did notice today some Louthmen laughing about Meath got screwed over by an official this last weekend.
Maybe there is something that old saying about how bad decisions balance out.
In which case maybe Mayo will get a dodgy penalty to win an All Ireland to balance out that inept officiating we saw in limerick in 2014.

bucketybuck · 11-06-2018 2:42pm

So we need to get rid of all the referees, replace them with new higher quality referees and then also replace the umpires and linesmen with qualified referees. We need to do this despite the already worrying scarcity of people volunteering for the job, and despite people thinking its perfectly fine to abuse referees who make mistakes.

Good luck with that lads.

rpurfield · 11-06-2018 2:49pm

Referee co-ordinator should be on the Sunday Game now and again to explain decisions and generally have a bit of accountability about referees, no more than a manager does a press conference post match. Also take the bloody timing and score keeping off them so it's two less things to worry about. I know at this point someone will say "oh you can't do it at club level" but so what, inter county is a step up again so should be treated differently in terms of aides to referees. As is said above get hawk eye and TV referees in too.Yes they don't deserve the abuse but steps need to be taken to bring them up a level.

Sterling Archer · 11-06-2018 4:08pm

I'll use the same format I used in the Dub thread

Is the level of refereeing now below the Level of both sports? Yes for the most part
Should referees tolerate abuse? Absolutely not, we need to follow the rugby mentality
Have some referees calls been game deciders? Not recently no, If you leave the game upto the Ref you are doing something wrong

Is there a fix? Yes Firstly we need to stamp out the level of abuse while improving Ref standards (Way easier said than done)
Next we need to get rid of the Oul boy mentality, Umpires Have to be assistant Referees (Aka a Ref), there is no way this can be ignored anymore, We need to utilise the 4th official more, take timekeeping and score keeping away from the Ref they have enough to be doing.. Al inter-county games should have video assistance.

Personal Pet peeves -
Clearer definition of contact rules
Yellow cards for simulation, stamp this out now
A public announcement - Extra time is AT LEAST + x minutes, this is not the word of god
More accountability for official abuse, although given they gave Gordan Kelly 3 months for emptying a water bottle near an umpire maybe we let this one slide

nice_guy80 · 11-06-2018 4:14pm

A huge problem is players and managers often don't know or understand the punishment for certain fouls

The very cnuts that moan and complain and shout abuse would never take up the whistle as there's no glory in it

I saw a mentor sent off at the Feile over the weekend for abusing a referee. Proper order too

Sterling Archer · 11-06-2018 4:20pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

A huge problem is players and managers often don't know or understand the punishment for certain fouls

The very cnuts that moan and complain and shout abuse would never take up the whistle as there's no glory in it

I saw a mentor sent off at the Feile over the weekend for abusing a referee. Proper order too

Just on this, I was at a challenge game recently, the Ref was getting the height of abuse off a manager, after 20 mins the ref walked over and handed him the whistle, told him to ref the game himself so and motioned he was walking out, Manager said something along the lines of "ah it's just passion" and handed back the whistle, Ref said "Any more of that and you can take your passion to the car park" - 5 mins into the second half the manager got cleared

dr.kenneth noisewater · 11-06-2018 4:22pm

The best way to improve the refereeing is to get more ex-players involved imo. But thats not happening, counties are struggling to get any new refs and the abuse seen over the past few weeks isn't gonna do anything to entice them further. Maybe the GAA needs to look at getting 10-12 in each code full time where they can train themselves and others during the week

Donnielighto · 11-06-2018 4:38pm

You can't blame the refs for players fans and managers not having respect. That's an internal thing. It's reprehensible to abusing a neutral volunteer especially seeing the clear bias in those who complain about it the most.

Gaelic is worse than soccer and not in same parish as Rugby when it comes to that. Hurling players seem better for it but Davy Fitz is a disgrace, lad should from gaa stadiums.

Al_Coholic · 11-06-2018 4:42pm

bruschi wrote:

It's about time teams, managers, players, fans cop on that referees for the most part dont decide games. Take the Meath game. A point up into extra time, game in their hands, and they are so naive to let numerous Tyrone players free who end up levelling. Absolutely, the ref made a huge error at the very end and potentially cost them a draw (dont let the fact escape anyone that their free taker was sent off and they still would need to score it to level).

The ref in that game was poor throughout... He didn't allow any advantage and this denied Tyrone on more than one occassion.
The "foul" at the end was infuriating because he gave so many softer frees before that.
It was one of the worst referee performances in a long time but I don't like the confrontation towards him after the game that was wrong.

Shelflife · 11-06-2018 6:59pm

There seems to be a common misconception out there that the refs just turn up on the day and hope for the best.

I’m a Rugby ref, to get to the level I’m at took a number of years , loads of assessments, loads of meetings and courses and lots of nights in the gym or pounding the roads on my own to get my fitness to the required levels. If we dont hit our targets we are demoted, if we do we stay at the level we are at or get promoted.

I’m pretty sure that it’s the same in the GAA and that the refs put a lot of effort into getting to that level.

There’s no way we would tolerate the levels of abuse that I’ve seen over the last few weeks, there are plenty of times that the losing team are unhappy with calls and may criticise you but if a coach came at me like the Meath coach he would be looking at 26-52 weeks suspension.

Referees are not above criticism, not at all but they should always be above abuse !

irelandrover · 11-06-2018 7:09pm

Have no idea how hurling refs are meant to be close enough to the action to ref.

The last score yesterday for Clare, puck out for Tipp to the Clare 20 metre line. Returned back up to the Tipp 20 metre line. How is the ref meant to be close enough to see little subtle fouls?

nice_guy80 · 11-06-2018 7:40pm

irelandrover wrote: »

Have no idea how hurling refs are meant to be close enough to the action to ref.

The last score yesterday for Clare, puck out for Tipp to the Clare 20 metre line. Returned back up to the Tipp 20 metre line. How is the ref meant to be close enough to see little subtle fouls?

Teleportation

ANXIOUS · 11-06-2018 7:43pm

Shane_ef wrote: »

Personal Pet peeves -
Clearer definition of contact rules
Yellow cards for simulation, stamp this out now
A public announcement - Extra time is AT LEAST + x minutes, this is not the word of god
More accountability for official abuse, although given they gave Gordan Kelly 3 months for emptying a water bottle near an umpire maybe we let this one slide

There already is a yellow for simulation.

Sterling Archer · 11-06-2018 9:50pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

There already is a yellow for simulation.

But there isn't

:rolleyes: ... I can't remember the last time someone got one

feargale · 11-06-2018 10:21pm

Motivator wrote: »

The actions of a referee, has cost Waterford dearly. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

You are out of order. By all means criticise the ref's performance afterwards, have continuous assessment of referees, and ensure that those who persistently make serious mistakes are told that their services are no longer required, at least not at inter-county level anyway.
But it is irresponsible to advocate abuse of referees. It is a short step from there to violence. And if verbal abuse of referees is given free rein they will lose respect and find it impossible to control games and in the heat of battle anarchy will reign. No ref has the gift of infallibility.
You can't have much experience of crowd control if you think it's ok to heighten an already electric atmosphere by abusing refs in front of thousands of spectators.
When a ref is taking a player to task any other player who intervenes to tell the ref how to do his job should be yellow-carded with a red to follow if he doesn't back off.
As another poster suggested the rugby way of dealing with this is the way to go.

C__MC · 11-06-2018 10:27pm

Paddy Neilan back in action with a qualifier Saturday week. He needs to be put on the linesman panel. Didn’t he ref Dublin v Kerry in league last year?

dastardly00 · 11-06-2018 11:12pm

Motivator wrote: »

Well when player’s seasons are on the line and manager’s jobs are on the line the very least that is expected is that the officials, who are appointed to the match, are able to do the job they are responsible for.

The Waterford v Tipperary game last Sunday in Limerick, the inability of the referee and his umpires to do their job properly has cost Waterford’s players, management and Co. Board dearly. The actions of a referee, who failed fitness tests THREE times this season, has cost Waterford dearly. Our year is now over partly due to the poor performance of a referee who was deemed unfit to do his job by Croke Park on three occasions. He got his place on the referees panel for this season by “passing” a test in mid May. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

How do you know he failed three fitness tests?

Al_Coholic · 12-06-2018 9:44am

C__MC wrote:

Paddy Neilan back in action with a qualifier Saturday week. He needs to be put on the linesman panel. Didnâ€™t he ref Dublin v Kerry in league last year?

He shouldn't get another game this year.

The Lost Sheep · 12-06-2018 2:49pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Given the shenanigans lately of members of the management teams running up to abuse officials after a game and the fact that referees are now getting Garda escorts off the pitch, how long will it be before a ref will be physically attcked on live TV?

Given the abuse that's being dished out to them as well I'd say it won't be long before there's a shortage of refs in both codes but more so in football.

Unless the authorities crack down big time on this and do so very soon a huge can of worms will be opened up.

Not that long unfortunately. Will take long time for any lasting changes/improvements to happen nationwide.

patsyrockem wrote: »

Diarmuid Connolly got a serious suspension last year for a relatively minor offence, don't get me wrong it was not right and he was made an example of. But the carry on of Davy Fitz for a number of years has gone on unpunished, the abuse of linesmen and fourth officials has been awful. The referees and umpires are always in the firing line but it's a tough job and not too many volunteers looking to do it, yet they never get any credit for doing a good job. The respect referees are treated with in rugby is taught from a very young age and no reason why this couldn't be implicated in Gaelic games. Respect!!

Yes the actions of D Fitz has gone unpunished and what he has done needs to be challenged and punished.
How rugby refs are treated is important but you have to look at the training and on going development of rugby referees. What training do refs of hurling and gaelic receive on a weekly/monthly/yearly basis.

Motivator wrote: »

Well when player’s seasons are on the line and manager’s jobs are on the line the very least that is expected is that the officials, who are appointed to the match, are able to do the job they are responsible for.

The Waterford v Tipperary game last Sunday in Limerick, the inability of the referee and his umpires to do their job properly has cost Waterford’s players, management and Co. Board dearly. The actions of a referee, who failed fitness tests THREE times this season, has cost Waterford dearly. Our year is now over partly due to the poor performance of a referee who was deemed unfit to do his job by Croke Park on three occasions. He got his place on the referees panel for this season by “passing” a test in mid May. Considering the colossal mistakes the man made in the game - he is absolutely entitled to receive abuse. Players and managers get enough of it, why are the referees immune?

Refs are not immune at all. Refs are human and make mistakes. Expecting them not to make mistakes is crazy. And say theyre entitled to receive abuse is never right

doylefe wrote: »

On the Sunday Game they were talking about how the respect shown to the referee in Rugby should be brought into the Gaa.

Thing is the referees in Rugby are usually pretty competent and at the highest level have lots of technology aids.

Gaa refs are more often than not downright terrible, and deserve no respect.

They need to professionalise referees in the Gaa. There's plenty of money in the organisation. The levels of commitment and time given by players and management and fans, and for it all to be wasted by one man in the middle making terrible calls is not right.

Referees in rugby receive proper training and on going development. What do hurling and gaelic refs receive? Saying refs dont deserve any respect just shows up the zero chance that the system will ever improve.
What good does making referees professional do? How many refs go pro and refs will still make relatively poor calls if pro or not. For refereeing to improve you need to start at the very bottom and improve basic training in the rules of the games and decision making.

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

They need to make a few changes here:

1) a second ref- 1 per half
2) hawkeye at every stadium
3) clear definition of the tackle rules
4) proper umpires & linesmen who know the rules
5) train refs to deal with high pressure decisions

Until then- the standard of officiating will remain a farce and every once in a while people's emotions will boil over

What does 2 refs per game actually improve.
Hawkeye at every stadium. When you say every stadium. How far down do we go? Proper umpires/linesman? How would you suggest you train refs to improve these standards and dealing with high pressure situations?

C__MC wrote: »

Needs to be like the Premier League where refs can be dropped for poor peformances

And what good does that actually do for the referee or the game?

rpurfield wrote: »

Referee co-ordinator should be on the Sunday Game now and again to explain decisions and generally have a bit of accountability about referees, no more than a manager does a press conference post match. Also take the bloody timing and score keeping off them so it's two less things to worry about. I know at this point someone will say "oh you can't do it at club level" but so what, inter county is a step up again so should be treated differently in terms of aides to referees. As is said above get hawk eye and TV referees in too.Yes they don't deserve the abuse but steps need to be taken to bring them up a level.

Why? A referee needs to be running time and score keeping. By all means have others doing it but a ref should be keeping it as well.

Shane_ef wrote: »

Next we need to get rid of the Oul boy mentality, Umpires Have to be assistant Referees (Aka a Ref), there is no way this can be ignored anymore, We need to utilise the 4th official more, take timekeeping and score keeping away from the Ref they have enough to be doing.. Al inter-county games should have video assistance.

Personal Pet peeves -
Clearer definition of contact rules
Yellow cards for simulation, stamp this out now
A public announcement - Extra time is AT LEAST + x minutes, this is not the word of god
More accountability for official abuse, although given they gave Gordan Kelly 3 months for emptying a water bottle near an umpire maybe we let this one slide

Umpires should be refs where possible and i wouldnt take timekeeping or score keeping away from the referee. I would just have umpires/4th officials also record these things.

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

The best way to improve the refereeing is to get more ex-players involved imo. But thats not happening, counties are struggling to get any new refs and the abuse seen over the past few weeks isn't gonna do anything to entice them further. Maybe the GAA needs to look at getting 10-12 in each code full time where they can train themselves and others during the week

Not necessarily. Having ex players who played at a higher level like inter county wont necessarily improve standards or anything else. And what does making referees full time actually achieve? They may improve but players/coaches dealing with referees wont improve because of that.

Al_Coholic wrote: »

He shouldn't get another game this year.

And how does that help anything?

Sonny678 · 12-06-2018 4:31pm

bruschi wrote:

It's about time teams, managers, players, fans cop on that referees for the most part dont decide games. Take the Meath game. A point up into extra time, game in their hands, and they are so naive to let numerous Tyrone players free who end up levelling. Absolutely, the ref made a huge error at the very end and potentially cost them a draw (dont let the fact escape anyone that their free taker was sent off and they still would need to score it to level).

Meaths number 1 freetaker was on the field when Meath needed to level the scores. Donal lenihan is Meaths chosen freetaker. He was on the field to take the free that wasn't given. He has been Meaths freetaker for the last 2 to 3 years. He came off with 10 mins to go. And so Ben Brennan toke over free duties. Brennan scored a great point in normal time to put Meath ahead. But he missed another free off the bar.

Lenihan came on in extra time as u can introduce players in extra time. And he is Meaths number 1 freetaker. He scored 7 points all from frees v Donegal in last years championship. In the game on Saturday v Tyrone lenihan scored 4 points, all from 4 frees. If Lenihan had to take that free in Navan where he has consistently scored frees similar to that year in year out game in game out for Meath. I would be very very confident he would have nailed that free. We will never know now.

But to say Meath freetakers was gone is completely false and wrong. Meaths number 1 freetaker was on the field. And also Cillian Sullivan is a very good freetaker also. He could have taken it. Ben Brennan when he took the free duties at the end of the game was the first time ever he took over free duties for Meath. He has scored from frees for Meath before Saturday maybe 3 or 4 points at max in his whole career. Lenihan was the player that takes Meaths frees and he was still on the field and actually better all round freetaker then Brennan.
And I have seen scores frees like he scored so many time before. It was a very very kickable free for a freetaker of lenihan quality.

Bonniedog · 12-06-2018 5:06pm

C__MC wrote: »

Paddy Neilan back in action with a qualifier Saturday week. He needs to be put on the linesman panel. Didn’t he ref Dublin v Kerry in league last year?

He must have taken out an insurance policy on Fenton ending up in hospital

Standard of hurling refs is much higher, despite the mistake in the Waterford game which was down to the umpire not the ref.

While reaction of McEntee and Davy Fitz on occasions can sometimes be rationalised on the basis of heat of the moment, it is dangerous road to go down. All it needs is for some lunatics in the crowd to decide to join in.

I remember years ago playing a game where the ref had to jump on his bike and high tail it out of the park with his gear bag. Thought it was funny at the time, but no-one deserves that sort of intimidation.

Felexicon · 12-06-2018 6:23pm

Al_Coholic wrote: »

He shouldn't get another game this year.

That's a silly thing to say. He made a mistake. It happens. He made one when he should have played advantage to Tyrone when they had a 2 on 1 about 20 yards from goal but there weren't too many off us in Green jerseys complaining over that one.

He didn't have a terrible game on Saturday. He called most of it very evenly.

Felexicon · 12-06-2018 6:40pm

I think there is a major issue with the amount of outcomes a referee has to consider every time there is a foul and this can sometimes lead to massive frustration in the crowd as it can seem very inconsistent at times.

If you think about it the referee has to consider all of the following and make a split second decision all while having the crowd on his back.

Foul - Yes or No
If Yes
Can I play advantage
Is the fouled player in a state that requires the game to be stopped to allow medical attention
Does it warrant a yellow or red card
Black card
Do I need to move it up for back chat

We are setting them up to fail with only 1 ref on the pitch.

The Lost Sheep · 12-06-2018 6:51pm

Felexicon wrote: »

I think there is a major issue with the amount of outcomes a referee has to consider every time there is a foul and this can sometimes lead to massive frustration in the crowd as it can seem very inconsistent at times.

If you think about it the referee has to consider all of the following and make a split second decision all while having the crowd on his back.

Foul - Yes or No
If Yes
Can I play advantage
Is the fouled player in a state that requires the game to be stopped to allow medical attention
Does it warrant a yellow or red card
Black card
Do I need to move it up for back chat

We are setting them up to fail with only 1 ref on the pitch.

How are any of the issues a ref deals with solved by 2 refs being on the pitch. The rules need to be adapted to give more powers to linesmen and umpires. But mainly its better training and on going development that is needed for all match officials.
Having more than 1 ref without changing anything else will just lead to more inconsistency, more frustration coming from players, coaches and supporters

Felexicon · 12-06-2018 6:56pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

How are any of the issues a ref deals with solved by 2 refs being on the pitch. The rules need to be adapted to give more powers to linesmen and umpires. But mainly its better training and on going development that is needed for all match officials.
Having more than 1 ref without changing anything else will just lead to more inconsistency, more frustration coming from players, coaches and supporters

Sorry, I was not offering that as a fix all solution. Of course what you say is true and at intercounty level I would have "linesmen" running both end lines too. I think it is farcical when I see a ref go in to the umpires to get a run down of an off the ball incident.

If you look at basketball they have 3 referees(with one head ref) and they are able to consult eachother over calls and give opinions from different angles.

dzer2 · 13-06-2018 8:40am

Felexicon wrote: »

I think there is a major issue with the amount of outcomes a referee has to consider every time there is a foul and this can sometimes lead to massive frustration in the crowd as it can seem very inconsistent at times.

If you think about it the referee has to consider all of the following and make a split second decision all while having the crowd on his back.

Foul - Yes or No
If Yes
Can I play advantage
Is the fouled player in a state that requires the game to be stopped to allow medical attention
Does it warrant a yellow or red card
Black card
Do I need to move it up for back chat

We are setting them up to fail with only 1 ref on the pitch.

I will take this one for you
Foul
Yes, allow 5 seconds no real advantage bring it back. Tick the number who fouled. 3 ticks yellow card.
Bad Foul ie high challenge foot trip bad swing with hurley Yellow card.
Red card is fairly clear not much thought needed for that.
Black card for football only, not enforced enough,
After every foul just have a glance if player is still on the ground let the medical staff on to se him/her.
Every time some one gives back chat move the ball.

Be consistent and start out as you mean to continue. If its a foul in the first minute its a foul in the last minute.
Its not the refs job to decide the game its his job to ensure the game is played in a safe and enjoyable manner for all involved.

bruschi · 13-06-2018 9:21am

Sonny678 wrote: »

Meaths number 1 freetaker was on the field when Meath needed to level the scores. Donal lenihan is Meaths chosen freetaker. He was on the field to take the free that wasn't given. He has been Meaths freetaker for the last 2 to 3 years. He came off with 10 mins to go. And so Ben Brennan toke over free duties. Brennan scored a great point in normal time to put Meath ahead. But he missed another free off the bar.

Lenihan came on in extra time as u can introduce players in extra time. And he is Meaths number 1 freetaker. He scored 7 points all from frees v Donegal in last years championship. In the game on Saturday v Tyrone lenihan scored 4 points, all from 4 frees. If Lenihan had to take that free in Navan where he has consistently scored frees similar to that year in year out game in game out for Meath. I would be very very confident he would have nailed that free. We will never know now.

But to say Meath freetakers was gone is completely false and wrong. Meaths number 1 freetaker was on the field. And also Cillian Sullivan is a very good freetaker also. He could have taken it. Ben Brennan when he took the free duties at the end of the game was the first time ever he took over free duties for Meath. He has scored from frees for Meath before Saturday maybe 3 or 4 points at max in his whole career. Lenihan was the player that takes Meaths frees and he was still on the field and actually better all round freetaker then Brennan.
And I have seen scores frees like he scored so many time before. It was a very very kickable free for a freetaker of lenihan quality.

3 whole paragraphs about one very minor point that has very little to do with the overall point. Grand, their best freetaker was on the field. He might have scored it, he might not. But it wasnt a point. It was a chance for a point. But way to miss the entire crux of the matter by focusing on the fact that ye had a free taker on the field.

Felexicon · 13-06-2018 10:11am

dzer2 wrote: »

I will take this one for you
Foul
Yes, allow 5 seconds no real advantage bring it back. Tick the number who fouled. 3 ticks yellow card.
Bad Foul ie high challenge foot trip bad swing with hurley Yellow card.
Red card is fairly clear not much thought needed for that.
Black card for football only, not enforced enough,
After every foul just have a glance if player is still on the ground let the medical staff on to se him/her.
Every time some one gives back chat move the ball.

Be consistent and start out as you mean to continue. If its a foul in the first minute its a foul in the last minute.
Its not the refs job to decide the game its his job to ensure the game is played in a safe and enjoyable manner for all involved.

You've just kind of rewritten my post to be fair.

I think the GAA should admit the black card has been a disaster and hasn't really had the impact it was introduced for.

Take that away and it's one less thing for the refs to have to worry about.

Mokuba · 13-06-2018 5:42pm

Paddy Neilan should never ref another game. No surprise to see him in the headlines after he blatantly robbed us against Armagh last year.

The worst refereeing performance I have ever seen.

Has no concept of the rules of the sport. Crazy that they keep giving him games.

The Lost Sheep · 13-06-2018 5:51pm

Felexicon wrote: »

Sorry, I was not offering that as a fix all solution. Of course what you say is true and at intercounty level I would have "linesmen" running both end lines too. I think it is farcical when I see a ref go in to the umpires to get a run down of an off the ball incident.

If you look at basketball they have 3 referees(with one head ref) and they are able to consult eachother over calls and give opinions from different angles.

I wouldnt say linesmen but qualified referees. Basketball is played on relatively small court and pace of game required the multiple officials. Very different circumstances to hurling or gaelic.

dzer2 wrote: »

I will take this one for you
Foul
Yes, allow 5 seconds no real advantage bring it back. Tick the number who fouled. 3 ticks yellow card.
Bad Foul ie high challenge foot trip bad swing with hurley Yellow card.
Red card is fairly clear not much thought needed for that.
Black card for football only, not enforced enough,
After every foul just have a glance if player is still on the ground let the medical staff on to se him/her.
Every time some one gives back chat move the ball.

Be consistent and start out as you mean to continue. If its a foul in the first minute its a foul in the last minute.
Its not the refs job to decide the game its his job to ensure the game is played in a safe and enjoyable manner for all involved.

Yes its the refs job to facilitate a safe/enjoyable game but you cant have a set up like you suggest. I disagree about having 5 seconds for an advantage. I would have for football anyway, hurling should be different, an advantage rule a bit more like rugby's where advantage can go for a long enough period if no genuine advantage can be gained

Felexicon wrote: »

You've just kind of rewritten my post to be fair.

I think the GAA should admit the black card has been a disaster and hasn't really had the impact it was introduced for.

Take that away and it's one less thing for the refs to have to worry about.

I havent just rewritten your post. Its quite different. I think how the black card has been allowed mutate into something it shouldnt but needs to be kept and if you take it away you need to replace it because going back to tick, yellow, red would be a very bad mistake.

Mokuba wrote: »

Paddy Neilan should never ref another game. No surprise to see him in the headlines after he blatantly robbed us against Armagh last year.

The worst refereeing performance I have ever seen.

Has no concept of the rules of the sport. Crazy that they keep giving him games.

That doesnt do anyone any good. Statements like a ref should "never ref another game". Who does that benefit? Everyone is entitled to a bad day. Saying things like a ref robbed a team is nonsense. A ref is never responsible for a team not being able to score enough or anything like that.

Mokuba · 13-06-2018 6:05pm

Every game is a bad day for him.

Was awful in Kildare v Tyrone in the league recently too.

Has no concept of the advantage rule.

Usually if somebody is blatantly inept at their job they aren't allowed to do it anymore.

He is a disgrace.

The Lost Sheep · 13-06-2018 6:13pm

Mokuba wrote: »

Every game is a bad day for him.

Was awful in Kildare v Tyrone in the league recently too.

Has no concept of the advantage rule.

Usually if somebody is blatantly inept at their job they aren't allowed to do it anymore.

He is a disgrace.

Saying things like every game is bad for him just is blatantly untrue and what hope does any ref ever have with thoughts like that. If you have this attitude about this ref you are most likely going to have it about any ref who appears human because they make some mistakes.
The advantage rule doesnt have to be played. A ref not making use of it doesnt make them bad. It just is their interpretation of the rule and they interpret the game as better for the free to be awarded there and now. I wouldnt agree with that but thats a refs' choice.

Mokuba · 13-06-2018 6:19pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Saying things like every game is bad for him just is blatantly untrue and what hope does any ref ever have with thoughts like that. If you have this attitude about this ref you are most likely going to have it about any ref who appears human because they make some mistakes.
The advantage rule doesnt have to be played. A ref not making use of it doesnt make them bad. It just is their interpretation of the rule and they interpret the game as better for the free to be awarded there and now. I wouldnt agree with that but thats a refs' choice.

The standard is shocking but he is on a different level.

He isn't good, it's as simple as that.

I think you'll find that most counties are having increasingly similar views of him.

Only referee that seems to require a Garda escort on a regular basis. Says it all really.

No sympathy for him. Fellas running themselves into the ground for months for Paddy to decide he doesn't know the rules and that's it, Championship over.

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